Kickstarter Shmups

[BPzeBanshee]

At the risk of sounding snarky, you (or the development team in question) didn't seem to hear much of the "forum wisdom" prior to Sine Mora's release.

I honestly feel very cynical about the idea of supporting another movie-length shmup where polished supershiny 3D graphics, cinema widescreen aspect and "reinventing the genre" take precedence over accessibility in terms of distribution and visibility. I have a HDTV and Sine Mora was just as unreadable and frustrating to get anywhere with as it was with a CRT. If that's your idea of production values I wouldn't dare hand over a cent.

On the other hand, if the effort was focused on getting the gameplay right (you were halfway there) and ensuring compatibility for 4:3/16:9/whatever to accomodate the possible environment the end user will have (you're posting in a forum of members who use everything from TVs to arcade cabinets, from gamepads to joystick controls) and it was demonstrated to do such in say a few YouTube videos, I'd definitely consider paying enough for a guaranteed copy of the game and maybe put in a few extra for something like an alternate mode/ship.

The key thing here is accessibility: I'm not talking 'get the casual gamer interested' because that's been tried to death and as you've said yourself it's not working, and from what I've seen it never really did. I'm talking of 'get the people that play these and then maybe some'. For example, Udderdude may not exactly be the most angelic of forum members but his game *just works*, supports the controller functions and has none of the issues others were complaining about, and undergoes due consideration and patches where necessary. There are various threads in Development here where the devs have simply asked the audience something to the words of "what else should I add?", and added stuff like joystick support/TATE/minor gameplay alterations where possible.

TLDR: If it's aimed at the proper audience with the proper functionality and proper gameplay this time around, we will buy it and then some (at least I'll certainly support it). Otherwise expect another split view like with Sine Mora.

[Weak Boson]

We are actively discussing this possibility with a Japanese partner

I think this is pretty exciting! I share some of the concerns expressed in the thread but it would be great to see a shmup made in this way successfully.

[MommysBestGames]

Would you back a brand new shoot'em up game on Kickstarter, designed and balanced by one of the most prominent Japanese shmup studios, featuring the production values of Sine Mora?

Hell yes. Some of the design decisions in Sine Mora rubbed me the wrong way, but ultimately I really like what you guys were going for and have been hoping that the people involved are interested in doing more.

What are your concerns, if any?

Sine Mora had a lot of little things that would have been nitpicky complaints on their own, but became infuriating when combined. My greatest concern is that we'll end up in another love/hate relationship.

I agree with pretty much everything CStarFlare had to say about this.

I mostly liked Sine Mora, but for a group of developers that talked a lot about older shooters, there were little nit-picky things that were overlooked that end up making the game a little frustrating to play (Reiker, I realize you read the post in which I pointed out my issues). I know every game can't please every person, but there were weird design decisions that I can't imagine pleased anyone (and annoyed others).

I worry we'd still end up with a new shmup, but all new issues that were somehow ignored. I know the pre-release thread had a lot of concerns presented for Sine Mora.
But with a few tweaks here and there, I think core gameplay could have been much improved and enjoyable. The general vibe from the game was neat, and several enemy types were fun to fight and some of the original bullet patterns were fun to avoid.

I'd be willing to give you/your team another try, even via kickstarter. I'd put in for a normal digital download cost ($10-20), plus a little extra ($5-10) to help out.
I would be mostly interested in a great game. Extras are fine, but like others said, I wouldn't want them dragging down the project.

[Age of Kings]

Fuck CAVE, fuck Treasure, and fuck G.rev. I would like to see another game from Milestone, for which I would give $100+ depending on the rewards and if I were given a copy of the game for my contribution.

[Kollision]

Would you back a brand new shoot'em up game on Kickstarter, designed and balanced by one of the most prominent Japanese shmup studios, featuring the production values of Sine Mora?

Yes, I would.

What are your concerns, if any?

Basics done right: ship movement, speed control, hitboxes, bullet patterns, decent weapons, decent/fair boss fights, balanced difficulty, intuitive damage system for enemies, no health bar, health bar on bosses (don't Yagawa-me please), that kind of stuff...
Scrolling speed variety (not always too slow and not always too fast as in Söldner-X 2, where you can't even appreciate the beauty in the backgrounds).
Eye candy compatible with current state of graphical affairs. Lots of 3D backgrounds, some interaction/tilting allowed.
Attractive and engaging scoring system.
Great music.

How much money would you donate?

Depending on the project scope and if it's retail, $50 and higher.

What kind of rewards are you most interested in?

No digital stuff, no downloads, no fuckin' DLC unless it's a patch.

[Deca]

If you plan on licensing the Armed Police Batrider name from 8ing and getting Yagawa san on board I'll remortgage my house.

Oh yeah, I would be in it with a couple grands too. Well if it's on JAMMA...

This will sound like bullshit, but I almost ended my previous post with "My contribution will go up significantly if you get Yagawa to do another APB."

I pretty much came here to say this, glad I'm not alone.

I'd put up at least 100 for a legit 2D (preferably non prerendered) apb follow up. Honestly I'd support any Yagawa project but a new apb would REALLY get me excited.

My concerns would be production values taking precedence over mechanics, diluting the game. Even though there are some 3D shooters like Border Down that I really enjoy, I just don't feel that the genre really lends itself to 3D graphics. It introduces a feeling of imprecision and uncertainty. I think aesthetics and presentation are extremely important but I don't think that you need to use 3D graphics to make a really beautiful and atmospheric game, in fact I feel 3D graphics inherently detract to some extent.

As for rewards, a physical copy of the game would be at the top of my list. Soundtracks are always nice, posters/wallscrolls are cool. A plastic model of the player ship or some iconic machine from the game would be extremely cool but I'm sure it's no small task getting something like that made.

[Elixir]

Why don't you just tell us what your true purpose for creating this thread is?

We are actively discussing this possibility with a Japanese partner. So, the "Japanese would never do this" argument is not valid.

There's a big difference between asking westerners to pledge towards a foreign game under construction, and asking them to pledge towards a publisher (like yourself?) to localize said material. The former is going to be very awkward to execute, based on the premise of how Kickstarter works. People want to see evidence and progression of what they're pledging towards, most of which appears to be "I want this, I'll support it". Kickstarter is no selfless donation drive. An obligation to localize would be an absolute necessity, but I'm pretty sure you're already aware of that at this point.

As you can probably see throughout this thread, people quickly choose to play favourites with what they prefer under the shmup umbrella, not the "this looks cool, I'll support that" mindset that Kickstarter carries. As for myself, I'll pretty much throw out my support towards anything that's 2D and vertical, so long as it doesn't look like it's been made in flash.

[Alfred]

Gentlemen,

Would you back a brand new shoot'em up game on Kickstarter, designed and balanced by one of the most prominent Japanese shmup studios, featuring the production values of Sine Mora?

If not, why not?
What are your concerns, if any?
How much money would you donate?
What kind of rewards are you most interested in?

Hello Reiker, Yes i would support it if i can play it. I have a (PAL) Xbox 360, Wii, DC and PSP. I don't have a PC/iPad. It would have to be a Japanese Shooting Game. I can give around £30-£100. It depends on who's making it and if it's any good. Rewards? I would like a music CD.

[TheSoundofRed]

I'd be happy to support any project that had true proof of concept art, and some form of gameplay demonstration. I recommend you have those two bits nailed down tight before moving ahead with a kickstart project. I'd probably pledge upwards of $100, maybe more. I second the idea of a physical copy.

I think... I may be off base, but if you allowed pledgers who pledge a certain amount to beta test and offer feedback on the title during development, and actually LISTEN to the advice and implement it where applicable, a large percentage of shmups members might have a renewed sense of faith in you, Reiker.

This is all off the assumption that your hypothetical STG title is going to be good...