How would you feel about PC releases of Cave games?

[CHI]

With over 200 votes, as a result, about 60% people on here has chosen CAVE PC Port...
Do I give a shit Nope

Blah blah blah...
Lock this thread, please.

What's that I hear in the background
Your wife's calling you to turn on MAME

Edit: spelling
Stupid smartphones!

[spineshark]

Oh it is. Shmups are gay. The gayest in-fact.

I can't believe you went with this instead of Cho Aniki.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Code: Select all

Arcades make it so you can't cheat!

This is true. On the other hand, anyone who actually likes this genre won't cheat anyway. Besides which, even if ports exist, you will still HAVE your arcade versions where the score is absolutely legitimate at all times. Pull your head out of your ass.

I think one or two ppl will cheat, IIRC someone from a SF tourney a couple of years ago was caught out using both 1 & 2 players in Mars Matrix.

Also different ppl regard different things as cheating. Autofire, save states. Some ppl regard shmupmame as cheating. However most ppl who use autofire to play Sine mora or play Jamestown with Fraps slowing the game down dont consider themselves to be cheating, to them they're just playing the game.

Sadly I havn't played on an arcade cab in donkey's years and probably never will, but they are still important to me since they raise the bar for both the game and the ppl who can play them.

I wonder how many of us who have consistency problems playing at home (me included) would be in for a shock at just how bad they are when they play in an arcade and find out they cant restart 5 times before they get into the groove.


To folk out there who don't like PC ports, would added training feature make you reconsider? Ie save states with a 2 second invul period after loading and better replay features (been unable to record pratice replays in the 360 ports is annoying) as a means to work out new strategies

[Skykid]

I can't believe you went with this instead of Cho Aniki.

I'd stick my neck out and say that's gayer than Cho Aniki. And probably illegal.

[Hagane]

Playing in arcades is great and their social aspect can't be reproduced at home, yeah.

Sadly, arcades are dead mostly everwhere. And the few ones that remain alive in the West generally don't have many shooters (none over here save for Strikers 1945 plus). So we have to settle with ports or emulation. Also, owning PCBs is great but you are deluding yourself if you think you can get an arcade experience playing them alone at home.

[Giest118]

Anyway... I think I'm done with this thread. I've more than said my piece. If anyone actually wishes to continue this further, you can PM me.

[Randorama]

What's that I hear in the background
Your wife's calling you to turn on MAME

I'll take it as polite joke, as I recall you being a nice guy, CHI. But good luck with being convinced that shoddy PC ports that will never point (page 6...) will destroy Casino Arcade, and all that Jazz.

Maybe the Darius Burst stools have hidden LSD syringes in them, judging by some of the posts in this thread.

Lock and ban everyone who posted in this thread, please.

[Skykid]

Your last few posts in this thread are embarassing, in their pretentious elitism.

Icarus in pretentious elitism shocker.

I'm disappointed that you've failed to aptly judge the measure of a man by misconstruing perfectly valid points in an argument that has two sides. In your defence it is a forum, and misconstruing sentiment is commonplace, so I'll just have to vouch for both Icarus and CHI as two of the nicest and most hard working shmuppers on the forum.

Neither of them would hesitate to offer help or advice to anyone tackling STGs, noob or otherwise.

Icarus just spent a weekend with me and I turned him into a belligerent asshole. Normal service will resume shortly.

In the meantime enjoy your ports motherfuckers.

[Icarus]

Your last few posts in this thread are embarassing, in their pretentious elitism.

And you were an administrator on this forum? Unbelievable.

We all know. Was this the point that the original author of this thread was trying to make? No.
Have you been on crack, of late?

What does being an admin have to do with my opinions on porting? All of your posts are embarrassing for a variety of reasons.

What the OP was asking for was opinions on possible PC ports. I've already given my opinion, as clear as I can:
1) Cave probably wouldn't make much money out of it anyway, given that the current user base here that would use Steam for anything is already pretty low to begin with, and it is unknown if selling anything on Steam would give them more money than a disc release on some console or other.
2) Even when porting to a console which has a single hardware configuration, their ports turn out uneven in quality, with ports ranging from fabulous (which normally end up being ported "out-of-house", like Arika's Daioujou/Espgaluda, M2's Mushi Futari 1.5, and 5pb's Ketsui Extra) to questionable (MMP!/PS, Guwange), with inexplicable porting choices (Deathsmiles NA missing slowdown, recently resolved) and user interface problems (missing 4:3 mode in some ports, extremely complicated to set up display modes etc). Therefore, what would happen when Cave port to a system with a lot of possible hardware and software configurations? And what if the requirements end up being quite high? What makes you think that someone who is loathe to pay for an imported console is willing to spend several hundred $/£ on computer bits so they can play Saidaioujou? Not everyone upgrades their components on a regular basis like the PC gamer crowd does - there are probably users here still running old Pentium III CPUs and Windows XP SP2.
3) They're already known to be financially stretched, expending resources on pursuing a new venture that may or may not be financially viable or successful could be a killer blow to them.
4) If PC ports are the way to save niche companies, why aren't we seeing an influx of shooting game devs on the format? Where's G.Rev? Milestone? Takumi? PC ports have come out before, and they've been all over the place in quality, and not very successful financially.
5) I have no problems with PC ports per se, but I would rather they balance the books in the way they know how first, before they look to new avenues of revenue.

For someone who makes himself out as intelligent, you're sure lacking reading comprehension, common sense, and the ability to argue points coherently.

Lock and ban everyone who posted in this thread, please.

Including yourself? It'd certainly save us from your nonsense.

Icarus just spent a weekend with me and I turned him into a belligerent asshole. Normal service will resume shortly.

I was always a belligerent asshole.

[Op Intensify]

I think that no matter what you do, it's impossible to make any decent money off of shmups anymore. They're simply a dead genre, as far as the vast majority of the gaming public is concerned. If you want profits you have to go into MMOs, WRPGs, FPSes, free-to-play, social games, or mobile Angry Birds/Canabalt clones.

2D fighting games have had a major comeback thanks to SFIV/MvC3/MK9, but they've definitely entered a second decline. The market's grown oversaturated again, and not many of the casuals who were initially drawn in by nostalgia have stuck around. Ikaruga on Gamecube could easily have spearheaded a significant Western shmup comeback, but it was not to be.

[Cagar]

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[Cagar]

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[O. Van Bruce]

BTW Cave might be reading this thread since I linked this to them in my message. Just look at this mess, the poll answers don't make much sense either. Just change the poll question to "Would you BUY a pc port...." and it's good

If I do that the poll would reset... or so I think...

[Cagar]

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[O. Van Bruce]

I still don't get what's so bad about this thread... I made it so that people could express their opinion about the issue and that's what it has been all this time. The poll was a "catcher" and also a way to get the lurkers opinion...

[trap15]

BTW Cave might be reading this thread since I linked this to them in my message. Just look at this mess, the poll answers don't make much sense either. Just change the poll question to "Would you BUY a pc port...." and it's good

If I do that the poll would reset... or so I think...

Damn... could mods do that? Removing all posts in this thrrad would be a good idea too

Let's censor our own members to make us look like we care about something that we don't, so that Cave does our bidding.

You manipulative shit.

[O. Van Bruce]

Also, the "Old Guard" would have said the same thing in any other thread... the difference now it's the amount of people who has replied (in the thread and in the poll) to their arrogance...

[Cagar]

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[emphatic]

ITT: Realism being confused with elitism.

[O. Van Bruce]

Last time I saw no one of this forum was from CAVE or even from the videogame industry...

Realism? Or simply being pretentious?

[yosai]

Anyway....

How would you feel about PC releases of Cave games?

If CAVE released PC ports I would not buy any but I would probably pirate them for a quick blast.

[AntiFritz]

Theirs no one from cave but theirs people from the industry.

[O. Van Bruce]

Theirs no one from cave but theirs people from the industry.

Oh cool... from the "old guard", who is on the gaming industry?

[Skykid]

Theirs no one from cave but theirs people from the industry.

Oh cool... from the "old guard", who is on the gaming industry?

Plenty of folk who probably don't fancy having it broadcast. None of them are going to help get Cave games on Steam either.

[rancor]

Last time I saw no one of this forum was from CAVE or even from the videogame industry...

That's a joke, right?

[O. Van Bruce]

Last time I saw no one of this forum was from CAVE or even from the videogame industry...

That's a joke, right?

I mean, not as retailers, but as developers on a comercial company (I'm not including doujin works either)

[rancor]

I mean, not as retailers, but as developers on a comercial company (I'm not including doujin works either)

Why would you think that?

[Randorama]

What does being an admin have to do with my opinions on porting?

I answer you at the end:

All of your posts are embarrassing for a variety of reasons.

Hopefully you mean in this thread, but let me answer you:

What the OP was asking for was opinions on possible PC ports. I've already given my opinion, as clear as I can:
1) Cave probably wouldn't make much money out of it anyway, given that the current user base here that would use Steam for anything is already pretty low to begin with, and it is unknown if selling anything on Steam would give them more money than a disc release on some console or other.

This was not a given at the beginning of the discussion, in the sense that O. Van Bruce didn't know this.

2) Even when porting to a console which has a single hardware configuration, their ports turn out uneven in quality, with ports ranging from fabulous (which normally end up being ported "out-of-house", like Arika's Daioujou/Espgaluda, M2's Mushi Futari 1.5, and 5pb's Ketsui Extra) to questionable (MMP!/PS, Guwange), with inexplicable porting choices (Deathsmiles NA missing slowdown, recently resolved) and user interface problems (missing 4:3 mode in some ports, extremely complicated to set up display modes etc). Therefore, what would happen when Cave port to a system with a lot of possible hardware and software configurations?

They would have to rewrite the game up from scratch, which is not feasible, and seems to cause all kinds of problem (see list of flaws you mention about CONSOLE ports). Trap15's explanation on page 6 gave the missing information about this aspect: Cave would have to re-program the game from scratch, as they use hardware-b(i)ased software.

This bit of information actually renders the whole poll and thread somehow useless. A debate on whether we want Cave ports or not clashes with this basic fact. PC or Console, Cave ports take resources and may be rubbish, unless the programmers really take great care about them.

In fact you say:

And what if the requirements end up being quite high? What makes you think that someone who is loathe to pay for an imported console is willing to spend several hundred $/£ on computer bits so they can play Saidaioujou? Not everyone upgrades their components on a regular basis like the PC gamer crowd does - there are probably users here still running old Pentium III CPUs and Windows XP SP2.
3) They're already known to be financially stretched, expending resources on pursuing a new venture that may or may not be financially viable or successful could be a killer blow to them.

Console or PC, there is simply no garantuee that the ports would be economically feasible and somewhat close to original in the first place. And, I don't think that Cave would give a toss about uninformed polls on a gaijin thread, if their balance sheets say that there is no money for a project of dubious appeal.

So, I don't think that there is the need to crucify naive users for even suggesting the idea, as if Ikeda is some kind of puppet that takes decisions based on what we shitpost here.

4) If PC ports are the way to save niche companies, why aren't we seeing an influx of shooting game devs on the format? Where's G.Rev? Milestone? Takumi? PC ports have come out before, and they've been all over the place in quality, and not very successful financially.

I don't think that I ever defended PC ports in any of my posts in this thread. I have one port, Shikigami III, which looks ok but does not run on my current PC, as it is an old machine that I am using before buying a new one. I never bothered with other ports, for the reasons you list.

I said at the beginning: if economically feasible and passable (not PERFECT, passable), why not porting Cave games on PC?
Once I learnt of the basic problems behind ports, I said: Ah, ok, they're not feasible, never mind.

Aside that:
I don't see how my *changing* opinion of PC ports can actually have an influence on companies choices, so I don't see why we need to be on page 10 shitposting about this.

Also, isn't Takumi dead...?

5) I have no problems with PC ports per se, but I would rather they balance the books in the way they know how first, before they look to new avenues of revenue.

Fine, but do you honestly think that they need the input from shumps.com?

For someone who makes himself out as intelligent, you're sure lacking reading comprehension, common sense, and the ability to argue points coherently.

Simon, please. Keep track of what I am saying, thanks.

You've also been arguing that we don't need ports because the only true experience is the arcade experience, and that's something I can fathom only if you're on crack, as it is elitist non-sense.

"I aim for the awesome WR! I go to the arcade and spend tons of money on PCBS! Everyone else should die!" and so on. These are all things that are orthogonal to the thread of discussion, so you're off-topic, aside being a terrible example on how to discuss topics on a forum you administered.

I sledged that comment of yours, not the rest. And, you accuse me of poor reading comprehension? Whatever you want to believe.

Lock and ban everyone who posted in this thread, please.

Including yourself? It'd certainly save us from your nonsense.

And as always, you show not to have any witty sense of humour. Well done, I think this the one millionth time you SEEMINGLY fail to get this very joke. Such a shame.

I won't bother with reading a response to this, my turn to be a dumb asshole.

[Skykid]

Boy this thread is shit.

[Tokyo-J]

I hope they release Dangun Feveron , Esprade , Dodonpachi and Pro Gear on the PC so we can play them legally.

I wonder what is the next IOS port is.