XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

@brandonp514: RGB is slightly better from a PS2 than component, but you're missing out on 480p and that's a big tradeoff.

[Rock Man]

I might get this if it's better than directly connecting the XBOX, Gamecube, and 360 (HDMI passthrough?) to the television. Xbox/GC I am curious to see how it handles Component. Though, I find it difficult to believe things like Dead or Alive Ultimate can look any better than it already does on regular Component.

[TurboCro]

So I finally got around to cutting the traces on my Neo-Geo AES to improve picture quality. Wow what a difference! Not only is the picture crisper but there's more depth and detail compared to component.

I was able to locate a later model SNES (according to one of the earlier posts), so hopefully I get that crispness via RGB cables that makes the Mini so great.

Since I switched to all JPN RGB cables (hopefully with SNES soon) I ended up buying a Selecty21. Kinda overpriced for what it is, but with the Mini being picky I didn't feel like taking chances. I haven't noticed any degradation of picture quality since using it.

[darthcloud]

Received my third SNES I've buy on ebay with SN UN60. Unlike RGB32E one this one is a GPM-02.
Serial is lower than RGB32E one, so UN60 unit might have their own PCB timeline.

I compiled all the data I've found so far online and from my own systems in a google docs spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Feel free to PM me your serial and pcb version and I will update the spreadsheet!!


If you check the serial they are chronological for US one below UN60.
SFC one are mostly chronological except a few one. Maybe case/pcb swapping??

Also grahf could you send me the complete serial of your 3 RGB-02 SFC? Thanks

[Konsolkongen]

If you set H_Scaler to 17 the XRGB-Mini actually does a very good job of emulating composite video. So if you only have RGB cables but don't like the superior picture quality the XRGB-Mini is also for you!

I'm amazed how many uses this thing has...

[grahf]

.....Also grahf could you send me the complete serial of your 3 RGB-02 SFC? Thanks

I'm away from home right now, but I'll get you the info when I return.

[darthcloud]

.....Also grahf could you send me the complete serial of your 3 RGB-02 SFC? Thanks

I'm away from home right now, but I'll get you the info when I return.

Great thank, also is it possible that the one you have with SN S20505023 is a GPM-02 rather than RGB-02? If it's really a RGB-02 it doesn't really fit in the logical order :S

[TurboCro]

Japan RGB cable Observations:

I had to increase the brightness for the Sega CDX to 35 and Neo-Geo to 45 for the right picture. Neo-Geo via component was almost too bright on default settings. RGB is noticably darker. That said, the output for both systems via RGB is pretty much perfect. Sega CDX has some shaky edges until it warms up. I started to notice some graphic details (shadings especially) that I didn't notice before.

Love the Mini

[Fudoh]

Sega CDX has some shaky edges until it warms up.

depending on the aspect ratio setting you use (Standard or normal 2) you can adjust the "skew" setting to get rid of those.

I started to notice some graphic details (shadings especially) that I didn't notice before.

note that the processing modes Standard, Game 1 und Framemeister have a higher LPF which blurs out some small details. Game 2 and all modes from the lower row retain more detail.

[TurboCro]

Sega CDX has some shaky edges until it warms up.

depending on the aspect ratio setting you use (Standard or normal 2) you can adjust the "skew" setting to get rid of those.

The problem resolves itself after a few minutes of play. Just an observation. I assumed that since it fixes itself it's probably more hardware related than setting related.

note that the processing modes Standard, Game 1 und Framemeister have a higher LPF which blurs out some small details. Game 2 and all modes from the lower row retain more detail.

I was comparing as to my old setup. All I have been using are Game 1 and Meister modes. I'll try playing around and see what I like best.

[chadti99]

Good news guys, I was able to get my Genesis model1 and 32x to work with Retro's raw sync 32x XRGB cable and my Mini! I was having some other issues with my 32x which I didn't realize, loose ribbon cables inside the unit, once I fixed that I figured out a way to sync RGB. If I power cycle the 32x/Genesis enough times eventually I'll get a good sync and the picture looks great! I have to power cycle sometimes on the order of 12 times but eventually it will work. I don't get any jail bars and the color saturation and contrast are fantastic!

I had a complete go at Sonic2, Kolibri, Star Wars Arcade, and Shadow Squadron. The 32x games I've not really been able to enjoy until now because the picture was always so sh*t on my plasma, thanks Retro! For you Videophiles, there is a bit of noise in darker colors but not enough to really notice if you are just playing and enjoying a game, removing the 32x may alleviate this, I haven't tried. Also there is no audio with my combo so I have to route another cable from the Genesis to my TV, not sure what's going on there.

I hope this helps someone else, would a sync stripper help with this issue?

[Hamburglar]

Received my third SNES I've buy on ebay with SN UN60. Unlike RGB32E one this one is a GPM-02.
Serial is lower than RGB32E one, so UN60 unit might have their own PCB timeline.

I compiled all the data I've found so far online and from my own systems in a google docs spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Feel free to PM me your serial and pcb version and I will update the spreadsheet!!

Weird thing is I opened up my two SNES model 1 consoles and they are both GPM-02 systems, and they both have very poor picture quality. I'm not sure all systems are still alike because you report the awesome picture quality in the GPM-02 systems you have.

[chadti99]

One more update, picked up a Genesis model 2 today. It combined with a 32x and Retro's XRGB raw sync cable work great with the Mini, no need for power cycling to get sync, I have sound as well!

Dunno what is up with the Genesis Model1+32X combo issues with sync and not having sound, I've got a Genesis Model1 XRGB cable coming as well so maybe it won't matter. I could go pick up a Sega CD Model2 and I'd be set for sure, very tempted to do this but we'll see how this next cable works out.

Kinda feel like I'm talking to myself here, is nobody else running these systems with the Mini?

I'll also know how well a US model RGB-02 SNES works with the Mini using raw sync come tomorrow, if anyone is interested. Svideo looks solid with this unit on the Mini. There are some very faint wide bands that I'm hoping is just this three in one cable I picked up ages ago.

[Retro Access]

One more update, picked up a Genesis model 2 today. It combined with a 32x and Retro's XRGB raw sync cable work great with the Mini, no need for power cycling to get sync, I have sound as well!

Dunno what is up with the Genesis Model1+32X combo issues with sync and not having sound, I've got a Genesis Model1 XRGB cable coming as well so maybe it won't matter. I could go pick up a Sega CD Model2 and I'd be set for sure, very tempted to do this but we'll see how this next cable works out.

Kinda feel like I'm talking to myself here, is nobody else running these systems with the Mini?

I'll also know how well a US model RGB-02 SNES works with the Mini using raw sync come tomorrow, if anyone is interested. Svideo looks solid with this unit on the Mini. There are some very faint wide bands that I'm hoping is just this three in one cable I picked up ages ago.

It's probably something to do with the sync from the Genesis 1 itself being screwy.

It works with an XRGB 3 but not the Mini.

You could of course try the fix with rerouting the sync from the IC if you're feeling confident about it.

One thing I said, re. trying Fudoh's idea for using a sync stripper IC, how this could fix consoles with this problem.

I am going to try this solution, but I can't do an external sync stripper adaptor for previous XRGB pinout cables I've sold, as I left the +5V line out of the XRGB cables. I've started connecting that line now, even though it is not necessary for the signal, it will be necessary for an external adaptor. But if this does work, the best idea is a Euro SCART>8 pin mini din adaptor, as SCARTs always have a 5-12V pin which can power the IC.

[chadti99]

I am going to try this solution, but I can't do an external sync stripper adaptor for previous XRGB pinout cables I've sold, as I left the +5V line out of the XRGB cables. I've started connecting that line now, even though it is not necessary for the signal, it will be necessary for an external adaptor. But if this does work, the best idea is a Euro SCART>8 pin mini din adaptor, as SCARTs always have a 5-12V pin which can power the IC.

Excellent, let me know when this external adapter is ready or the mini din adapter. Also, are you planning on building a Sega Saturn XRGB cable with raw sync?

[darthcloud]

Received my third SNES I've buy on ebay with SN UN60. Unlike RGB32E one this one is a GPM-02.
Serial is lower than RGB32E one, so UN60 unit might have their own PCB timeline.

I compiled all the data I've found so far online and from my own systems in a google docs spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Feel free to PM me your serial and pcb version and I will update the spreadsheet!!

Weird thing is I opened up my two SNES model 1 consoles and they are both GPM-02 systems, and they both have very poor picture quality. I'm not sure all systems are still alike because you report the awesome picture quality in the GPM-02 systems you have.

Didn't said it was awesome, I just said it was less crappy than the newer RGB-02.

1CHIP is the one that look awesome.

[RGB32E]

I am going to try this solution, but I can't do an external sync stripper adaptor for previous XRGB pinout cables I've sold, as I left the +5V line out of the XRGB cables. I've started connecting that line now, even though it is not necessary for the signal, it will be necessary for an external adaptor.

What pin(s) are you connecting +5VDC to?

Also, where do you purchase the 10 pin mini din plugs from for your Sega Saturn cables?

[Retro Access]

Pin 16 (RGB selector)

XRGB defaults to RGB anyway so it's unnecessary, but connecting it gives you a 5V source for a sync separator.

as for the Saturn plugs, I got them direct from wholesaler and had to order minimum 1000 of them.

[RGB32E]

Pin 16 (RGB selector)

XRGB defaults to RGB anyway so it's unnecessary, but connecting it gives you a 5V source for a sync separator.

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:scart2rgb
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:japanese_rgb-21

EDIT:
http://wiki.superfamicom.org/snes/show/ ... 26+Pinouts

Code: Select all

Japanese 21-pin RGB Connector (EIAJ TTC-003)
 
This is the Japanese RGB connector used on many video game systems. It is physically identical to the European SCART / Péritel / Euroconnector with a different pinout. 
|------------------------------------------|
|   2   4   6   8  10  12  14  16  18  20  |
|                                         / 21
| 1   3   5   7   9  11  13  15  17  19  |
|-----------------------------------------

 1: Audio Left Channel Input     2: Audio Left Channel Output
 3: Audio Ground                 4: Audio Ground
 5: Audio Right Channel Input    6: Audio Right Channel Output
 7: Sync / Video Ground          8: Video Ground
 9: Sync / CVBS Input           10: CVBS Output
11: AV Control Input / +5v      12: Ym Input
13: Red Signal Ground           14: Ground
15: Red Signal I/O              16: Ys Input / 1V
17: Green Signal Ground         18: Blue Signal Ground
19: Green Signal I/O            20: Blue Signal I/O
21: Plug Shield / Ground

Between these three pages, it looks like pin 11 should be used instead of pin 16. What say you?

as for the Saturn plugs, I got them direct from wholesaler and had to order minimum 1000 of them.

Mind selling me a quantity of 10? These have the Saturn/Yaesu shaped barrel instead of the 9 pin mini din style, right?

[Seraphic]

Can one plug the Mini directly into a U.S.A power source without fear or damaging the unit?

[darthcloud]

Can one plug the Mini directly into a U.S.A power source without fear or damaging the unit?

Yes it's fine.

[Retro Access]

The Japanese specs on wikipedia.jp give pin 16 as RGB switch, and pin 11 as AV switch.

I can't get a rundown of what they do if certain voltages are applied, but the point is with XRGB if you send 5V to pin 16 it doesn't make a difference. I don't want it to actually do anything, I just needed somewhere safe to put it so I could make a future adaptor.

If I am wrong about this please advise, gamesx have had it on their site forever that you can put 5V on that pin.

I'll send you a PM.

[RGB32E]

The Japanese specs on wikipedia.jp give pin 16 as RGB switch, and pin 11 as AV switch.

I can't get a rundown of what they do if certain voltages are applied, but the point is with XRGB if you send 5V to pin 16 it doesn't make a difference. I don't want it to actually do anything, I just needed somewhere safe to put it so I could make a future adaptor.

If I am wrong about this please advise, gamesx have had it on their site forever that you can put 5V on that pin.

Yeah, Lawrence mentions using a series resistor before connecting +5VDC to pin 16. I'm building something similar and plan to use pin 11. So, I guess we'll just have to be incompatible!

■ Ys Input: RGB in/out: (Ground for output, 1V+ for Input (preferred)1))

Pin 16 is Ys input...

[Retro Access]

The Japanese specs on wikipedia.jp give pin 16 as RGB switch, and pin 11 as AV switch.

I can't get a rundown of what they do if certain voltages are applied, but the point is with XRGB if you send 5V to pin 16 it doesn't make a difference. I don't want it to actually do anything, I just needed somewhere safe to put it so I could make a future adaptor.

If I am wrong about this please advise, gamesx have had it on their site forever that you can put 5V on that pin.

Yeah, Lawrence mentions using a series resistor before connecting +5VDC to pin 16. I'm building something similar and plan to use pin 11. So, I guess we'll just have to be incompatible!

■ Ys Input: RGB in/out: (Ground for output, 1V+ for Input (preferred)1))

Pin 16 is Ys input...

Do you know what the inputs are on pin 11 to switch RGB and composite (I assume)? I have googled this and can't find the voltage ranges. I only sent the cables with pin 16 to one customer, who has XRGB mini and pin 16 isn't connected in the adaptor to the 8 pin mini din anyway. I'll put it on pin 11 if it won't randomly switch to composite on some XRGB units or be too high voltage. I connected it there because he was already having sync issues and I wanted to send him a sample adaptor to try to fix it if he had it with these other cables too.

[Seraphic]

Was able to get my Mini up and running and it works with my capture setup as well.
Here are some first captures with Pocket Fighter over PS2 RGB Scart upscaled to 1080p with Mini using default standard settings.
Captured as uncompressed 24-Bit RGB. Looks REALLY over sharpened on my 73" DPL. Looks a little better on capture cards though.
Recommendations to smooth picture out?

[Fudoh]

Looks REALLY over sharpened on my 73" DPL

turn the auto scaler off and set the V/H scaling options manually to your liking (+/- 1 or 2 from the default settings should do the trick). Also set sharpness to zero. And you can always use 720p output instead. Since scanlines are bogus in 1080p anyway, 720p is my prefered output for anything 240p with scanlines.

[Konsolkongen]

Also turn down the sharpness on your TV, if you haven't already. On my Panasonic Plasma I have the sharpness at 1/10 on all sources.

[Seraphic]

Not sure if I am a fan of the scan-lines (at least with the games I have tried so far). Need more time to adjust these settings to see what kind of picture is possible for 720p/1080p.

[SGGG2]

Oh, wow. That looks very similar to B0 @ 1080p.

[TurboCro]

Some more Mini observations:

Turning off auto sync and deep RGB allowed me to lower brightness levels to 40 from 45. I also think the colors are more closely matching the original. (On the Neo-Geo).

Weird one: Neo-Geo via RGB looks the best at 720p. At 480P it looks a little washed out. At 1080P the backgrounds are too dark to see. I'm not sure why that would have that type of effect on the picture.

Sega CDX: Adjusting the skew didn't change any of the shaky edges. It just takes it a few minutes to warm up then they disappear.

SNES (hopefully with the heralded 1chip) should be here by later this week.