XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Retro Access]

@Retro Access: from a business standpoint it's next to impossible to find a "cable only" solution for all those troubled customers. I've gone through PS2, SFC, MD, Saturn and PCE and some others with the Mini and while some are relatively stress-free on my setup, others units had to equipped with a LM1881 in order get proper results. From what I gathererd so far, using a sync stripper seems to fix almost any system to a level where it's completely compatible with the Mini. From a quality standpoint I couldn't find any differences in using c.sync compared to c.video as sync on SFC/SAT/PCE, only MD exhibited more jailsbars with video (as usual). It might be wiser (from your business point of view) to offer Mini users something like a EU-SCART to MINI-DIN8 adapter with a built-in LM1881. This way to get rid of the compatibility issues with various SFC versions, get rid of the need to supply cables with JP-PIN21 layout and (except for MD) you don't even have to care about c.sync vs. c.video anymore. Just my 2 humble cents on the topic....

Thanks Fudoh. I've actually been considering this all week, a guy who bought off me on eBay pointed out this might work. It's why I was asking about EL1883 being a potential replacement as I already have a bunch of built circuitry for SCART>EL1883s for my SCART>RGBS adaptors for the RGBS>VGA boards. I'm just going to have to order in some LM1881s and try it. The lower operational voltage of EL1883 just means more components after all with a SCART>8 pin mini din solution. The only thing that's been making me hold off on it is the huge amount of revisions of the SNES and permutations of Genesis setups meaning it might not work for every user. I think I'm going to use the current people with issues as guinea pigs and send them a sample and see if it worked with their hardware. Enough people say it works, and I think I can sell this solution.

[HDgaming42]

Retro Access: you have a PM from me if you've missed it.

[darthcloud]

I finally found myself a 1-chip Super Famicom. I've seen ones with S249xxxxx
range serial numbers before, but then I came across one with a different label.
I bought it, opened it up, and it was a 1-chip! It looks like the revisions changed
right around this serial range.



You can see that the labels look a little different. The 1-chip is on the bottom.
The 1-chip label also says SVHC-JPN-1 in the bottom right corner, which might
be good to remember if you're hunting for one.

I've also got a SVHC-JPN-1 and even though the picture is better than my other SNES (2-chip PAL) it's not a 1-chip SFC. Serial is S24857259.

I bet it's a SNS-CPU-APU-01, right?

RGB-02, APU-01 and 1Chip-01 where all manufactured in 1995. I never saw a APU-01 board in a US machine so I guess it was a very limited run before they got the 1Chip ready.

[grahf]

Well that's good information to know. That shows then that the label itself doesn't indicate whether or not it's a 1-Chip. Looks like we're narrowing down the serial number range though.

[trav75]

If anybody can please answer my post (4th from the last post on page 33 of this thread) I would really appreciate it! I have the items sitting in the shopping cart ready to buy, but I want to make sure that the xbrg-mini will make a significant difference with the setup I have before I spend so much money. Thanks!

[Fudoh]

@StarCreator: to fix the AR issue with the PSP output, you can used a LKV7000 PSP upscaler. Quite decent quality. It supports 4:3, 16:9 and 16:10 displays. Input is component, output is VGA.

[Fudoh]

@trav75: Of course it's worth getting a XRGB-Mini. SNES, GEN, PS1 and SAT output RGB already, so you'll have to get the proper cables. PS2 with component is fine. For NES you can use composite cables (the yellow jack on the side of the NES). Without "going RGB" for as many systems as possible, it's not worth spending this kind of money on an upscaler.

[Seraphic]

@trav75: Of course it's worth getting a XRGB-Mini. SNES, GEN, PS1 and SAT output RGB already, so you'll have to get the proper cables. PS2 with component is fine. For NES you can use composite cables (the yellow jack on the side of the NES). Without "going RGB" for as many systems as possible, it's not worth spending this kind of money on an upscaler.

For systems limited to component, based on quality of picture, should one invest in a D-Terminal to Component conversion cable or invest in a D-Terminal cable for that device?

[Fudoh]

just get an adapter. Much easier, same quality.

[grahf]

just get an adapter. Much easier, same quality.

Yes.
Plus, this will allow you to easily use a component switchbox, if you like. Those are a hell of a lot easier to obtain than d-terminal switboxes outside of Japan.

[Konsolkongen]

blizzz>

PSP on the Mini does look like your second screenshot. It is a little bit blurry when you look closely at the screen, especially around 1 pixel thick text. It's probably caused by the component cable and thereby loss of red and blue color resolution. ...or whatever. If I'm wrong I trust Fudoh will correct me.

I tried Fudoh's settings in 720p and it didn't look anywhere as good as my 1080p settings. The vertical lines were badly scaled and very uneven, and I'm not sure what setting the V_witdh to max should do? It changed nothing here, but when set to max it caused a strange tearing effect at the bottom of the screen.

EDIT: I seem to have edited my post rather than making a new one... Oh well, it should still make sense

[blizzz]

PSP on the Mini does look like your second screenshot. It is a little bit blurry when you look closely at the screen, especially around 1 pixel thick text. It's probably caused by the component cable and thereby loss of red and blue color resolution. ...or whatever. If I'm wrong I trust Fudoh will correct me.

Thanks a lot That means that there's no need for me to upgrade to the Framemeister.

I've also got a SVHC-JPN-1 and even though the picture is better than my other SNES (2-chip PAL) it's not a 1-chip SFC. Serial is S24857259.

I bet it's a SNS-CPU-APU-01, right?

RGB-02, APU-01 and 1Chip-01 where all manufactured in 1995. I never saw a APU-01 board in a US machine so I guess it was a very limited run before they got the 1Chip ready.

Yes, you're right. It's an APU-01 with a lot of dust xD

[Fudoh]

I tried Fudoh's settings in 720p and it didn't look anywhere as good as my 1080p settings.

why would you assume that my settings were for 720p ? They are for 1080p. I used the V-SIZE option, because the Mini's lbx option alone assumes a wrong aspect ratio for the PSP. I hooked up the XRGB-3 to the monitor right next to it and had to max. the V-SIZE option to get the proper 16:9 ratio for PSP games.

Just use whatever you like. The nice thing about the Mini is that it offers so much scaling options, that you can pick by yourself what looks best. With my settings (and 1080p) the Mini's output looks identical to the XRGB-3's PSP output in B0 with a high resolution output.

PSP on the Mini does look like your second screenshot. It is a little bit blurry when you look closely at the screen, especially around 1 pixel thick text. It's probably caused by the component cable and thereby loss of red and blue color resolution. ...or whatever. If I'm wrong I trust Fudoh will correct me.

it's a bug in the scaling engine. Same thing that happens to 480p input any other system. The Mini interpolates contrast edges in a weird way. By applying a zoom mode it just becomes more obvious with a PSP signal than with a "fullscreen" 480p signal from another system.

[Konsolkongen]

I don't know why I assumed you used 720p mode. Probably because we both use it for 240p consoles I guess

I will give your settings another go next time I'm playing PSP.

[Konsolkongen]

Fudoh did you try out composite on the Mini when you did your review? I got my US NES today and will be tearing it apart soon to RGB modify it, but I have it hooked up now with composite and it actually doesn't look as bad as I thought.

[Fudoh]

just with a PS2 - have to once in a while when I forget to change the menu from component to RGB or vice versa when switching the cables... looked as expected.

[brandonp514]

I have a few questions for you guys.

I just purchased (FINALLY) an XRGB-Mini. Luckily I came up with the funds after the thing had been released or else I was going to get a DVDO Edge. Very happy I decided to wait considering I want to play a lot of SNES titles.

My question to you all is concerning all the systems I currently have and will be hooking up to the mini.

NES: Should I hook it up to the composite on the mini or just direct connect to the TV?

SNES: I bought RGB Cables from here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 4331wt_774

I currently have an older style SNES and soon I should have the newest version SNES, the smaller mini one. I'm going to try both and see which gets the better picture.

PS1: I don't currently own a PS1 and so I was planning on using component and connecting that to a 4 way component switcher and then to the d-terminal adapter that I bought. However, should I buy a PS1 and connect it through RGB Scart as well? Where could I find such a cable and would it work with a USA PS1?

PS2: Same question as PS1, can I use RGB or would component to d-terminal work ok?

PS3: HDMI to mini

N64: S-video to mini

Wii: Component to switcher to d-terminal to mini

PSP: Component to switcher to d-terminal to mini

Does all of this seem correct? Any suggestions you have for me?

[chadti99]

Can anyone help with getting RGB out of my Sega Genesis Model1/SegaCD Model1/32X combo to my Mini?

I've tried a 32x XRGB cable from ebay and the it doesn't provide much of any picture.

If I bypass the 32x and use the supplied DIN adapter in conjunction with the Model1 Genesis and the XRGB cable I can get a picture that is pretty jumpy but no sound.

Also of note, if I use the standard AV cable through the 32x to the Mini the colors are overblown with flicker.

[Fudoh]

PS1 doesn't output component. SNES2 (the small one) does not output RGB and NES should run through the Mini (although composite isn't ideal).

[chadti99]

Dunno what happened to my first post, oh well.

Has anyone had any luck getting a Genesis model 1 or a 32x connected via RGB to the Mini?

I've tried a 32x XRGB cable from Retro on Ebay and it doesn't output much of anything. If i bypass the 32X and use the same cable on my Genesis Model1 with the DIN adapter I get a picture but it's very jumpy and no sound.

I've also noticed that the picture/audio loses sync with an XRGB cable on my NeoGeo AES every few minutes or so.


Any help would be appreciated. My SNES over SVIDEO works no problem, although I have an XRGB cable coming for that as well.

[brandonp514]

Fudoh,

I know that PS1 doesn't output component, but can it output using a SCART cable? I read your review stating that theres a bit a noise when using PS1 games through a PS2 using component to d-terminal. So I wanted to know if I could get a PS1 and just use JP21 RGB?

So if the mini SNES doesn't output RGB, I must have been confused reading this thread. Didn't they say that the mini SNES provided the best picture?

[Fudoh]

With a PS1 you're limited to RGB. On a PS2 you can use both. Maybe I misread your posting above. It sounded as if you were planing to use a component cable on a PS1. On a PS2 I would start with component (so you can use 480p boot discs or games which support 480p natively).

The best SNES quality is to be expected from a late 1-chip SNES, which are still "large" units.

[Retro Access]

I have some LM1881s ordered, I am hoping I can send a sample adaptor to those with issues, and I am hoping they work. Fudoh said earlier in the thread it fixes most problems. The two known issues are:

A large amount of SNES consoles do not work correctly on XRGB Mini. Doesn't matter if they are sync based or sync on composite, the problems are pretty even.
Megadrive 1>32X does not work on XRGB units with a sync based cable.

This is a simple circuit so those who have already bought off me on eBay and have had an issue will get a free sample.

Those who are reading this, please wait and see if the sample fixes it before buying cables for XRGB Mini. Unless it's cables for Neo Geo, Genesis 2 or Saturn cables which have presented no issues so far.

I have similarly had a SCART>XRGB box returned. These boxes worked fine on XRGB 2, 2+ and XRGB 3 for the vast majority of things. These simple passthroughs will not, however fix these sync issues with the Mini. They don't contain the circuitry to fix it.

[chadti99]

I have to say besides the odd flicker every now and again that my NeoGeo AES looks absolutley stunning with an XRGB cable through the Mini and this is without the RGB bypass mod. Razor sharp picture and excellent color saturation and contrast. Can't wait to pick up a few more titles and get my other consoles up and running over RGB.

[Konsolkongen]

Disappointment time! I finished the RGB mod on my NES just now, and it's just not working :/

Here are a some pictures of the various stages of the PPU replacement. I think it turned out pretty nice, granted I was very generous with the hot glue gun, but I made sure to check for shorts before and after of course. There are none.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... C00292.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... C00293.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... C00294.jpg

You can just make out the shielding for the RGB wires in the last picture. I soldered this to the lockout chip on the right. It has 4 GND pins right next to each other so it was the easiest and nearest grounding point I could solder it to.

Lockout chip had been disabled (lift pin 4 and connect to GND) as you can see. I also removed a transistor where I tapped the sync, as per RGB32E's instructions.

When I turn it on I only get a white line in the left side of the screen and nothing else. No sound either.


Occasionally it will change to a messed up colored screen when I turn on the system, but there doesn't seem to be any pattern in triggering this, it just happens randomly.

I have tried the following things to correct this:
Tried a different cartridge connector
Reinserted the transistor I removed from the sync line
Restored pin 4 on the lockout chip to 5V
Removed the RGB shielding from the lockout chips GND pins (this was just a desperate last resort)

I hope RGB32E or Moosmann can help me out here. To me it looks like the PPU is dead. I just don't understand why there is no sound then, but perhaps the NES won't start the game without a working PPU.

The XRGB-Mini says it's receiving a 240p RGB signal at 60.09Hz, and the white line is indeed very sharp, but I was hoping for more

[Retro Access]

Yeah, this is why I don't have an RGB Famicom already.

Frightened to death of paying the $$$ for salvage parts and getting a dead PPU. Already come across a dead regular PPU in a Famicom. I want to do the RGB job, but who's going to refund you if you took a PPU off one of those playchoice boards sold as sold as seen or whatever and it's dead? They'll no doubt just say you probably fried it during the mod. The possibility frightens me.

[Konsolkongen]

Oh I should probably mention that I didn't insert the PPU until I had finished all the soldering

[brandonp514]

So Fudoh, you'd recommend component using the PS2 for PS1 games? That's what I had planned to do until I read something about "noise" when using component through the mini. Having said that, you'd still recommend PS2 Component connection vs Scart RGB?

[RGB32E]

I can build "minimal" noise PS RGB cables. As a reminder, I have a bunch of unterminated (destination end) Official PS1 RGB cables that I build with polymer caps. PM for more info.

I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread about getting the Hori HG D-Terminal (japanese component) cable for the PS2/3. It's definitely noiser than the RGB cables I've made.

[Bunk]

What, if anything, could I gain by my running my PS3 & 360 through the Mini?

I did wonder what some of the 360s Cave shooters would look like in Meister mode. Anyone tried it out?