XRGB-mini Framemeister

[blizzz]

MiniDin8 on the Framemeister:
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... amemeister

Din8 on the XSync:
http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/img/xsync-1_pin.jpg

Thanks Fudoh, what are pin 3 and 5 on the xsync din? Got a translation?

Pin3 (AVコントロール) translates to "AV Control".

[TurboCro]

Why is everyone having issues with the SNES and the XRGB Mini? SNES is 90% of what I play, so I'm a bit nervous here.

I used to use SCART to RGBSync on a DVDO VP20. My Mini connected by s-video produces a much better picture than any output I ever got using SCART + VP20.

If you get perfect results right now with your SNES, I'd hold off. If you're using a setup like I was, it's actually a pretty big upgrade.

[RGB32E]

Why is everyone having issues with the SNES and the XRGB Mini? SNES is 90% of what I play, so I'm a bit nervous here.

Given that there's about 6 internal revisions of the SNES, YMMV. Unless you're out in the middle of nowhere, you should be able to track one down (e.g. Craigslist). Otherwise, pester eBay sellers for serial numbers like one of the other users here did. Do you have a 4.5mm gambit? If you don't, get one, and open your SNES to see which rev you have. Before opening a SNES, you should always turn the power switch to the on position for a couple of seconds with no cables attached to the system. What is the serial number of your SNES?

I used to use SCART to RGBSync on a DVDO VP20. My Mini connected by s-video produces a much better picture than any output I ever got using SCART + VP20.

If you get perfect results right now with your SNES, I'd hold off. If you're using a setup like I was, it's actually a pretty big upgrade.

Yeah, I've seen this "S-Video is better" shenanigans before. Sorry, but you're doing something wrong if you've come to that conclusion...

Edit:
Care to share the S/N you're using that gives you satisfactory results using S-Video instead of RGB? Any screenshots as well would be interesting too!

[RGB32E]

MiniDin8 on the Framemeister:
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... amemeister

Din8 on the XSync:
http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/img/xsync-1_pin.jpg

Thanks Fudoh, what are pin 3 and 5 on the xsync din? Got a translation?

I've built a 8DIN to 8MDIN cable to connect my XSYNC-1 to my mini. Pins 3 and 5 are not used when connecting the XSYNC-1 to a XRGB-mini. I still haven't opened my XSYNC-1 to see what the YS pin is wired to (what is the signal)!

[TurboCro]

Yeah, I've seen this "S-Video is better" shenanigans before. Sorry, but you're doing something wrong if you've come to that conclusion...

Edit:
Care to share the S/N you're using that gives you satisfactory results using S-Video instead of RGB? Any screenshots as well would be interesting too!

Relax dude.

I can't get my Mini to work using the RGB cable, in my instance the results via s-video on the Mini are better than my old setup which was SCART RGB to RGB Sync processed through a DVDO VP20.

SCART to RGBSync on VP20 = grainy picture + choppy scrolling

If I could get SNES to work via RGB on my Mini, I'm sure it'd be better than s-video. But as of right now, its better than what I had before

[lordnikon]

Does the Framemeister have the PSP Zoom functions from the XRGB-3? Seeing Darius Burst Zoomed to proper letterbox was a sight to behold. You could even take 4:3 anthology games like Metal Slug or Star Soldier and blow them up to fill the entire space of an SDTV. Its supper blurry, but just funny that this is even possible. I loved this feature of the XRGB-3 for proper PSP games, but there was just 1 problem: lag.

To use the PSP Zoom you needed to envoke the scaling mode, as opposed to the line doubler. This means that around 35ms of lag would be tacked into your gameplay. I just can't play with additional lag. I think my threshold is 10 ms or less total that I am willing to put up with.

Are there any such zoom features in the Framemeister?

If not, I am crossing my fingers for the XRGB-4 to include this. However if it doesn't end up in that device, its probobly never going to return.

[Fudoh]

Yes, PSP zoom is available on the Mini.

[Hamburglar]

Yeah, I've seen this "S-Video is better" shenanigans before. Sorry, but you're doing something wrong if you've come to that conclusion...

Edit:
Care to share the S/N you're using that gives you satisfactory results using S-Video instead of RGB? Any screenshots as well would be interesting too!

Relax dude.

I can't get my Mini to work using the RGB cable, in my instance the results via s-video on the Mini are better than my old setup which was SCART RGB to RGB Sync processed through a DVDO VP20.

SCART to RGBSync on VP20 = grainy picture + choppy scrolling

If I could get SNES to work via RGB on my Mini, I'm sure it'd be better than s-video. But as of right now, its better than what I had before

Thanks for this. I'm holding off on the Mini until the SNES problems are resolved.

[Konsolkongen]

Yes, PSP zoom is available on the Mini.

Without having to manually change the width and height of the aspect? I haven't tried it yet myself.

So, Mini on top of a speaker? Good/bad idea?

[Fudoh]

yes, I think one the lbx modes fits the PSP exactly.

I wouldn't worry about the center speaker harming the Mini (or any other equipment) in any way.

[Retro Access]

New finding from two people now.

Genesis 1>32X>raw sync SCART>XRGB Mini=unusable picture with screwed sync.

Does the XRGB Mini not filter out jailbars on Genesis standard composite scarts? I'm trying to find solutions for these people, because nobody wants the regular SCART.

What are peoples findings with various Genesis setups on Mini? Various configurations, composite sync and regular composite as sync. Do the jailbars improve any from previous XRGB units?

edit: For SCART, I mean 21 pin Japanese wiring.

[Retro Access]

Yeah, I've seen this "S-Video is better" shenanigans before. Sorry, but you're doing something wrong if you've come to that conclusion...

Edit:
Care to share the S/N you're using that gives you satisfactory results using S-Video instead of RGB? Any screenshots as well would be interesting too!

Relax dude.

I can't get my Mini to work using the RGB cable, in my instance the results via s-video on the Mini are better than my old setup which was SCART RGB to RGB Sync processed through a DVDO VP20.

SCART to RGBSync on VP20 = grainy picture + choppy scrolling

If I could get SNES to work via RGB on my Mini, I'm sure it'd be better than s-video. But as of right now, its better than what I had before

Thanks for this. I'm holding off on the Mini until the SNES problems are resolved.

It boggles my mind that this system shipped with issues like this which are not in the older XRGB units. Unless they just aren't bothered with the export market. For that though, I'd have to assume no issues with Super Famicom models. I would guess Micomsoft tested every one. I'm going into the Japanese reports on this setup now, trying to find more info. If it means everyone getting a Super Famicom I would surmise people would have no problem with that, as long as converters are readily available. They are only pass throughs though, no lockout between US/JP.

Edit: Not much luck with Japanese sites. No reviews on Amazon yet, I checked some blogs and 2ch, can't find any complaints but I'm not sure where best to look. Anyone got any tips?

One blog I found: "I did mean to test the SFC today, but I can't find my SFC." Grr....

Any results with SFC that anyone found are much appreciated. I can source easy units from Japan so if they are trouble free this could be the solution.

[Konsolkongen]

yes, I think one the lbx modes fits the PSP exactly.

I wouldn't worry about the center speaker harming the Mini (or any other equipment) in any way.

Thank you

Any results with SFC that anyone found are much appreciated. I can source easy units from Japan so if they are trouble free this could be the solution.

Not much I can add to this, but the two one chip Super Nintendo's I have tried both worked perfectly fine. That was a SNES2 (mini) and a late one-chip PAL model I modified for 60Hz. The latter one is my current unit and it did have a few dropouts with composite video as sync but works perfectly with c.sync.

I can't remember if the ones with problems were of the early or late SNES/SFC kind, though.

[Retro Access]

Oh wow, that's really odd. From my findings csync hasn't worked, composite video has better results but all kinds of issues reported by people who buy this cable. I wonder if the US SNES is just all round, not a good idea with XRGB Mini. Take it you replaced CSYNC in the output of the PAL SNES then? What components if any did you use in the output?

I need to buy an SFC if it definitely is the case that they are not affected, and compare components. Does anyone know, do the PPUs differ any, do the video encoders differ from country to country? I wish japanese bloggers and reviewers on Amazon would speak up and offer more info as to at least, success with their SFCs. Still cannot really find anything.

[Moosmann]

I measured the Y Signals from a PlayStation Scph-1002 (working with the mini) and from a Scph-7502 (not working with the mini) with an oscilloscope and compared them. I post results in the next days (--> Problem: I don`t know all technical words in english at the moment). I suspects, this problem cannot solve just with an firmware update.

Greetings Markus

[Retro Access]

I measured the Y Signals from a PlayStation Scph-1002 (working with the mini) and from a Scph-7502 (not working with the mini) with an oscilloscope and compared them. I post results in the next days (--> Problem: I don`t know all technical words in english at the moment). I suspects, this problem cannot solve just with an firmware update.

Greetings Markus

Cheers, this may help explain things a little, don't worry about the words.

I do not have an oscilloscope at present (sold everything when I moved to USA.) I would love to measure these outputs so I know if I can fix it externally. I already thought an external amp could help, but I'm really screwed at present for equipment. All I have right now is my findings from UK and I thought everything was going to be working fine in future. Then I get this issue thrown up by US SNES, XRGB Mini comes out with loads of issues and I need to look deeper into this.

Edit: Is this an incompatible s-video signal with Playstation, or RGB with sync used from luma?

[Fudoh]

@Retro Access: from a business standpoint it's next to impossible to find a "cable only" solution for all those troubled customers. I've gone through PS2, SFC, MD, Saturn and PCE and some others with the Mini and while some are relatively stress-free on my setup, others units had to equipped with a LM1881 in order get proper results. From what I gathererd so far, using a sync stripper seems to fix almost any system to a level where it's completely compatible with the Mini. From a quality standpoint I couldn't find any differences in using c.sync compared to c.video as sync on SFC/SAT/PCE, only MD exhibited more jailsbars with video (as usual). It might be wiser (from your business point of view) to offer Mini users something like a EU-SCART to MINI-DIN8 adapter with a built-in LM1881. This way to get rid of the compatibility issues with various SFC versions, get rid of the need to supply cables with JP-PIN21 layout and (except for MD) you don't even have to care about c.sync vs. c.video anymore. Just my 2 humble cents on the topic....

[Bunk]

I've tried 4 different Jp Saturns with the Mini and they all have the same display problem (massively zoomed in - models tested are all round button versions: Derby Stallion, This is Cool, Victor & White).

I wonder if the cable is causing the problem?

It's really annoying ... I want to play some Souky & Garegga!!

[Fudoh]

Konsolkongen uses a "This is cool" unit and I've used a Victor (along with two Hitachis and an early Sega) and they all run fine. I can't imagine that your unit would be different.

[Bunk]

Got to be the cable then. I'll have to try and source an alternative (or find someone who can mod mine). Cheers Fudoh.

[Fudoh]

Note that the JP and EU pinouts of the Saturn outputs are not the same, maybe that's causing a problem on your setup. I've ordered a sync cable from Retro Accessoires (who posted above) in the USA. Took about a week to get to Germany and works flawlessly with japanese Saturn units and the Mini.

[Konsolkongen]

Oh wow, that's really odd. From my findings csync hasn't worked, composite video has better results but all kinds of issues reported by people who buy this cable. I wonder if the US SNES is just all round, not a good idea with XRGB Mini. Take it you replaced CSYNC in the output of the PAL SNES then? What components if any did you use in the output?

I did. I didn't use any components, I just tapped the sync signal from the RGB encoder. Pin 7 or 8 if I remember correctly.

Got to be the cable then. I'll have to try and source an alternative (or find someone who can mod mine). Cheers Fudoh.

I have only used my This is Cool Saturn on the Mini with c.sync. I'm using an original European SCART cable for my Saturn so I had to rewire the AV socket on the Saturn itself to use c.sync with this cable.

I also had to add a 220uF cap to the c.sync line otherwise the picture was messed up with horrible colors and huge shadows (NOT a Mini problem, this happened on my TV and XRGB-3 as well).

[Konsolkongen]

yes, I think one the lbx modes fits the PSP exactly.

Indeed it does! GAME_LB1 and GAME_LB2 both work very, very well with the PSP. LB2 filling out just a little bit more of the screen, the aspect seems to be the same though.

I would recommend PSP users to use 1080p output, Auto Scaler: Game and Sharpness: 1. This gives a MUCH nicer and sharper picture than I get when using 720p output.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... C00273.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... C00275.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... C00277.jpg

Here is a close up of 1080p with the above mentioned settings:


And here is one in 720p with V-scaler set to 5 and sharpness at 1:


I hope Micomsoft will let us macro some presets to the unused buttons on the remote in the near future, so we won't have to switch output resolution and scaler settings depending on our sources.
I must say that PSP upscaled through the Mini (1080p) looks very, very nice. Perhaps not as insanely sharp as the XRGB-3 could, but with only 1.3ms lag and locked V-sync this thing is miles ahead!

[Fudoh]

I posted a XRGB-3/MINI PSP comparison before, here http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 32#p756632

With H_SCALER set to 8, V_SCALER to 6 and SHARPNESS to 2 along with LBX mode and V_SIZE manually set to max, the picture is 100% identical to the XRGB-3.

[trav75]

I just heard about this device, and I am seriously considering getting one. However, I'm pretty new to this so I wanted to ask some questions from you guys who appear to know a LOT more about this stuff.

I have all USA consoles, and all are un-modded. The consoles I have range from the NES up to the Xbox 360 and PS3. I'm not really concerned about using the newer consoles with the XRGB Mini...mainly the old ones such as the NES, SNES, Genesis, PS1, PS2, etc. I have bought the best cables I could to work with my old consoles, but none of them have an RGB connection. MY NES only has an old RF cable (is there a better cable I can buy for the NES?), my SNES, Genesis, PS1, and Saturn all have S-Video cables. My PS2 has component cables. Would it be worth spending the money for the Mini with the setup that I have? Would it make my old console games look decent on my plasma hdtv? They look pretty awful running on it right now. I see lots of you talking about doing some RGB mod, but I've only soldered a couple times in my life and am not too experienced with doing stuff like that. Do I need to have an RGB connection for all the old consoles to make using the Mini worthwhile? I take it there is no adapter cable for composite/s-video to RGB and this can only be achieved by doing a hardware mod...

I saw the component to d-terminal adapter cable and would buy that for use with the consoles (PS2, Xbox, Wii, etc.) that have component cables.

Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for being such a noob!

[StarCreator]

I must say that PSP upscaled through the Mini (1080p) looks very, very nice. Perhaps not as insanely sharp as the XRGB-3 could, but with only 1.3ms lag and locked V-sync this thing is miles ahead!

I'm currently having to run my PSP into a 4:3 LCD monitor and there's absolutely no way to get it to display game output at the correct aspect ratio. You have no idea how much this tempts me... but the Framemeister costing more than the PSP itself is sort of a dealbreaker =/

[Konsolkongen]

You can use the Framemeister for other consoles as well

Ever play Saturn, MegaDrive, SNES or PS1? That's where the Mini really shines.

[StarCreator]

You can use the Framemeister for other consoles as well

Ever play Saturn, MegaDrive, SNES or PS1? That's where the Mini really shines.

I only own one of the above in working order, but I keep several 36" CRTs around for that.

[blizzz]

I finally found myself a 1-chip Super Famicom. I've seen ones with S249xxxxx
range serial numbers before, but then I came across one with a different label.
I bought it, opened it up, and it was a 1-chip! It looks like the revisions changed
right around this serial range.



You can see that the labels look a little different. The 1-chip is on the bottom.
The 1-chip label also says SVHC-JPN-1 in the bottom right corner, which might
be good to remember if you're hunting for one.

I've also got a SVHC-JPN-1 and even though the picture is better than my other SNES (2-chip PAL) it's not a 1-chip SFC. Serial is S24857259.

[blizzz]

Sry for the doublepost...

I'm wondering how good the picture quality of the Framemeister is for small details/text in PSP games.
On the left is a digital screencap and on the right a component screenshot from my AVerMedia H727. Both look good, but at 300% zoom (lower left) you can clearly see that it's a bit blurry over component cables. Would the Framemeister conserve the sharpness or is this something that's caused by the cables? I'm using the original Sony component cables for PSPgo. The screenshots on the previous page look a bit blurry too, but that might just be the camera.