XRGB-mini Framemeister

[wildchild22]

So from the review it seems that the xrgb-mini is fine for 240p and 480i where as the xrgb-3 is only good for 240p.


thanks again for the great review.

[Fudoh]

The Mini's fine for 480p, 720p and 1080p as well, it's simply debatable if that's neccessary. 480p is bugged for the PS2 only. Other 480p inputs seem to be fine.

XRGB-3 vs. XRGB-Mini for 480i is a tricky question. Forget about the XRGB-3's deinterlacing in B0, but the field-based CRT-simulation in B1 was actually a good idea for 480i material. It's a different approach to the Mini's deinterlacing, but it worked fine and looks very nice and especially very sharp. For more sophisticated 480i material where deinterlacing is wanted, the Mini is to be prefered of course.

[shadowman]

How about the XRGB-mini vs the Optoma HD3000 for 480i? I ordered an XRGB-mini yesterday and I recently bought the Optoma. I plan to keep the Optoma for for 480p and up while using the XRGB-mini for 240p. PS2 is the oddball and I was wondering which of the two would give the best results for it's 480i output.

[Fudoh]

About the same, but with the XRGB-Mini's Game1 mode option, I would use the Mini instead (for 480i). Optoma + Framemeister will be my future setup as well.

[Plasia]

I've read the review (good work!) and my only question before I give Solaris Japan a lot of money (buying some games too) is this:

What is the input lag for 240p/480i/480p?

I'm sorry if this was in the review and I missed it.

[Fudoh]

What is the input lag for 240p/480i/480p?

I wrote about it in the review. I just wasn't sure how to interpretate the delay info on the status screen. Seems as the delay is between 1 and 9ms for all input and all output modes.

[Plasia]

So that's less than 1 frame (16ms)?

That's pretty awesome, so it's like XRGB in B1 (pretty much lagless) but a lot more flexible?

[Fudoh]

exactly.

[wildchild22]

Hi there just wondering how you will use the optoma with the frammeister?

Just use the framemeister to output 480p and then upscale with the optoma??

About the same, but with the XRGB-Mini's Game1 mode option, I would use the Mini instead (for 480i). Optoma + Framemeister will be my future setup as well.

[Fudoh]

No, my YUV sources are running into a matrix switch (from Zektor) and from there 240p and 480i go into the Mini, while 480p goes into the Optoma. I don't chain the two units. But just to make this clear: once the chroma-shift is fixed on the Mini, the 480p upscaling will be quite nice. Not 100% perfect as on the Optoma, but very well on XRGB-3 niveau.

[RGB32E]

Got it!!!



Not quite as sharp as the 3...

[Fudoh]

Make sure to set the sharpness to 1 for 240p sources. On the HX900 I can hardly tell a difference, but it's the Sharp panel which is to blame here with it's plasma'esque pixel structure. If you find anything I'm missing from the review, tell us! And if you have more luck with unlocking the output from the input sync, let me know about it !

[Konsolkongen]

Do you have a Neo Geo MVS?

[Fudoh]

He has a Sony TV as well...

[RGB32E]

Make sure to set the sharpness to 1 for 240p sources. On the HX900 I can hardly tell a difference, but it's the Sharp panel which is to blame here with it's plasma'esque pixel structure. If you find anything I'm missing from the review, tell us! And if you have more luck with unlocking the output from the input sync, let me know about it !

No... sharpness should be set to 0, or else you get several pixels wide of sharpness/edge enhancement... I found out how to cure the sharpness issue - turn Auto_Scaler to OFF, and adjust the H_Scaler value from 6 to 5. (5 looks like the XRGB-3, except cleaner!) Yeah, input seems to be locked to the output... this is only a bad thing if your TV won't accept the signal. Still learning the menus... they're in Japanese, other than the basic picture settings.

Sharpness was also improved by using my uber short SNES RGB cable with polymer (ultra low ESR) caps. I was using a stock SHVC-010 for my initial setup.

A/D Level works just the same as it does on the XRGB-3, except a lower value is darker and a higher value is brighter (opposite of the 3).

I tried turning Deep Color to "Auto", and a 36-Bit RGB output is sent via HDMI instead of 24-bit RGB! I haven't picked up any picture quality differences either way. I set the color output mode (colorspace) from component to RGB for my testing so far. Turning on deep color adds about 0.2ms of input delay (1.28ms to 1.56ms)!

Do you have a Neo Geo MVS?

Yes, 1 have two 1 slots... Unfortunately neither is working right now. I got the calendar error after replacing the corroding battery on my last working MVS and haven't had the right time to investigate further. My other 1 slot will boot every 20 times... the other times it comes up with "MEMORY CARD ERROR". I need to build a new cable for my arcade stuff (only built a Saturn RGB to framemeister cable over the weekend ).

[Fudoh]

@RGB32E

turn Auto_Scaler to OFF, and adjust the H_Scaler value from 6 to 5.

just as I recommended. Unfortunately different input resolutions require different scaler settings.

Still learning the menus... they're in Japanese, other than the basic picture settings.

are you serious ? The Mini I've got here is 100% in english. Not a single japanese character, no matter which menu.
Can you check your firmware version ?

I set the color output mode (colorspace) from component to RGB for my testing so far.

for videogames RGB is the better choice, since the sources have full luma range and you save yourself one conversion (theoretically).

[Seraphic]

Is ps2 able to do rgb over component cable or is rub scary cable needed? If no; is there a way to do rgb scart to vga or dbl-analog?

[Fudoh]

Is ps2 able to do rgb over component cable

no, but you can do component over RGB cable.

or is rub scary cable needed?

what's a "rub scary cable" ?

is there a way to do rgb scart to vga or dbl-analog?

if you want VGA output from the Mini you have to use a HD Fury. What's DBL-analog ?

[BuckoA51]

what's a "rub scary cable" ?

My guess is this was posted on a phone, RGB Scart I would assume that should have been.

[Fudoh]

haha, ok.

Easiest way to connect a PS2 would be to use YUV through a component cable, neither a RGB signal, nor a RGB cable.

[Fudoh]

Ok, I just learned that my firmware was different from the initial retail release. Mine was completely in english, while the retail one is partly japanese. Micomsoft's working on public FW update release already and some of the bugs seem to be in the fixing already as well. Good news!

[RGB32E]

haha, ok.

Easiest way to connect a PS2 would be to use YUV through a component cable, neither a RGB signal, nor a RGB cable.

Yeah RGBCv from a PS1 didn't work with the mini for some reason. It's like it couldn't lock onto the signal? I booted up without a disc, got a garbled menu for a moment, then a black screen! I haven't tried booting to a 240p game yet though... Composite video as sync works with the mini's RGB In, but not with the PS1 for some reason.

[Fudoh]

You did order the XSync as well, right ? Could you try it with different sources to check if there're any differences with any sources on the Mini ?

I tried a PSOne (little white model) with a standard RGB cable (composite video as sync). Did work as expected.

[RGB32E]

You did order the XSync as well, right ? Could you try it with different sources to check if there're any differences with any sources on the Mini ?

Yup, got the XSYNC-1, but haven't tried it yet. It only comes with a manual and USB A-B cable. I don't have a 8 pin din to 8 pin mini din cable built yet, so I haven't tested it out. Stay tuned!

I tried a PSOne (little white model) with a standard RGB cable (composite video as sync). Did work as expected.

I checked the cable with an original Playstation. I can take a picture and post it. The same cable/system connected to my XRGB-3 works just fine (tried the 3 after the mini didn't work). I booted a game and got a picture, but it was heavily zoomed in and corrupted. I don't have a PSOne, but I'll try with a PS2 later.

[fagin]

Fudoh,
Thanks for taking the time to review this new product..... I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from your article. If the current XRGB-3 thread is anything to go by, we at least know we have a good few years left to run on this thread!!

You've heard me ask this a thousand times before, but I'm going to ask it anyway....

Do I need one of these?

Or being slightly more sensible with my question....

If the appropriate bugs you highlight are sorted, could this device (for video gaming) replace my EDGE, XRGB-3 and Optoma to a level that equals the sum of those individual parts?

[Seraphic]

Easiest way to connect a PS2 would be to use YUV through a component cable, neither a RGB signal, nor a RGB cable.

Yes, I was on my cell phone and they keys are so small, lol.

Anyway, isn't there a quality different on PS2 using YUV component vs RGB scart?
Is there a reason PS2 is unable to pass RGB over component?

And as for RGB scart, I was interested to know, can be converted to VGA or DVI-Analog?

[Fudoh]

Anyway, isn't there a quality different on PS2 using YUV component vs RGB scart?

hardly. Not worth the extra effort. Also component will do 480p on many games, while RGB won't.

Is there a reason PS2 is unable to pass RGB over component?

RGBS = 4 cables. Component YUV = 3 cables.

And as for RGB scart, I was interested to know, can be converted to VGA or DVI-Analog?

no, the Mini has only got a HDMI output.

[Seraphic]

Does RGB mode for PS2 require 4-wire RGB, 5-Wire RGB, or RGBs?

And I mean more for 240p PS1 games on PS2.

A quick look on google turned up this (RGB scart to VGA cable):

http://www.syncblaster.com/syncblaster_cables.html

[wildchild22]

I think you need one as well as me.

You seem to collect scalers and so do I no collection can be complete without one!!


I have a lumagen radiance,a dvdo duo, (the edge really with cms) and the xrgb-3.
And I am wondering if I need the framemeister and optoma to add to my collection. I wonder if I have enough already?

Fudoh,
Thanks for taking the time to review this new product..... I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from your article. If the current XRGB-3 thread is anything to go by, we at least know we have a good few years left to run on this thread!!

You've heard me ask this a thousand times before, but I'm going to ask it anyway....

Do I need one of these?

Or being slightly more sensible with my question....

If the appropriate bugs you highlight are sorted, could this device (for video gaming) replace my EDGE, XRGB-3 and Optoma to a level that equals the sum of those individual parts?

[fagin]

Well Fudoh has blanked my questions so we will never know!!!!