Too close for comfort? the revival?

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm curious too. 63% is about right for everything in Deathsmiles IMO but I would appreciate someone who has also played the ports/PCB to validate me on 63% across the game being right. I do suspect there are times when the blitter rate might not be quite adequate so maybe decimal percentages may be required - I dont know if it'll accept me putting in decimals in the config file though.

Also, are the blitter fillrates different for each game? There was talk of some of the stuff being on the same hardware but maybe manipulated in such a way that the blitter fillrate was changed for each game instance, or something like that. I don't know.

[Vamos]

I'm curious too. 63% is about right for everything in Deathsmiles IMO but I would appreciate someone who has also played the ports/PCB to validate me on 63% across the game being right. I do suspect there are times when the blitter rate might not be quite adequate so maybe decimal percentages may be required - I dont know if it'll accept me putting in decimals in the config file though.

Also, are the blitter fillrates different for each game? There was talk of some of the stuff being on the same hardware but maybe manipulated in such a way that the blitter fillrate was changed for each game instance, or something like that. I don't know.

I think every game must be different , i tried ibara on 65% and still get 0 slowdown except for the flying things near the end of stage 4 however 65% on futari seems closeish in the stages at least

[moozooh]

Also, are the blitter fillrates different for each game? There was talk of some of the stuff being on the same hardware but maybe manipulated in such a way that the blitter fillrate was changed for each game instance, or something like that. I don't know.

There is no first-hand confirmation of this, and will never be, but it's very easy to see when comparing Futari 1.0 (1.01) Original and Futari BL Original. Same hardware, nearly no slowdown in 1.0, slowdown everywhere on BL.

[Drachenherz]

And yes, I definitely think there are different fillrates across different boards. For example, in Muchi Muchi Pork, with a fillrate of about 64 %, the game is slow almost as soon as the first pork-gold is set free, whereas, so the game is basically slow non-stop. I don't remember this behaviour in the 360 Port.

But... As I have no actual experience with the PCBs, and as I don't even know the ports tooooo well, I'd better stop posting here, in order not to falsify the data.

[BPzeBanshee]

Also, are the blitter fillrates different for each game? There was talk of some of the stuff being on the same hardware but maybe manipulated in such a way that the blitter fillrate was changed for each game instance, or something like that. I don't know.

There is no first-hand confirmation of this, and will never be, but it's very easy to see when comparing Futari 1.0 (1.01) Original and Futari BL Original. Same hardware, nearly no slowdown in 1.0, slowdown everywhere on BL.

I have no experience with Futari via port (and no Cave games at all via PCB), but on Slowpoke MAME with blitter delay at 63% playing Original with Palm, with 1.0 there is some slowdown, and in Black Label there's shitloads, especially on stage 2. I had MAME's counter to check it wasn't just my computer either (which is handling this build quite well ). Since you have more experience watching the videos/playing the games can you confirm whether 63% is anywhere near accurate for them? I'm thinking the main reason Black Label lags more is due to the extra fancy graphics or something.

And yes, I definitely think there are different fillrates across different boards. For example, in Muchi Muchi Pork, with a fillrate of about 64 %, the game is slow almost as soon as the first pork-gold is set free, whereas, so the game is basically slow non-stop. I don't remember this behaviour in the 360 Port.

But... As I have no actual experience with the PCBs, and as I don't even know the ports tooooo well, I'd better stop posting here, in order not to falsify the data.

http://www.cave-stg.com/?p=1041 says the Muchi Muchi Pork accuracy isn't that great, but maybe 63 would bring it closer. I'm being picky but I swear there's a big gap difference between single digits in the early 60s mark.

Also, you own Futari don't you? How do the Futari versions work for you at 63? I think you said before that 67 was 'somewhat close to the port', is it too slow or too fast?

[Drachenherz]

Also, you own Futari don't you? How do the Futari versions work for you at 63? I think you said before that 67 was 'somewhat close to the port', is it too slow or too fast?

Jup, I own the port and the BL DLC.

As I've written before, it depends on the stage and even the place in the stage. It's not a question of "too slow or too fast", the slowdown is (subjectevely felt) the same, but it start's sooner, when there is "less action" on the screen. The figures I gave

In Mushifutari Black Label, a blitter Rate of around 63% makes it feel more or less the same as the xbox 360 port, in the first 2 levels, up until the midboss of level 3. For the "pillbug" sequence, a blitter Rate of around 64 to 65 % makes all the difference, whereas at stage 3 boss I have to set the blitter rate at 66 to 67 % to get more or less the same slowdown as the 360 port... Stage 4, beginning just before the midboss, it's back again to around 63 to 65 %... unfortunately, I didn't have the time to get farther than just before the midboss stage 4 on one credit to give more data. Getting the power-max after continueing changes the own shot to max and thus I cannot estimate the "normal" slowdown anymore.

make the game feel quite like the 360 Port for me. And yes, 1 digit more or less can make quite a difference, for example stage 3 boss, with 64 or 65 %, the slowdown kicks in too late (the first attack on the first pattern come fast at you, without slowdown), in the port the slowdown kicks in as soon as the first boss-attack starts. With 66% it emulates this behaviour (slowdown immediately kicking in as soon as the boss attack starts). Ah, and this is with me playing Reco, and A-shot. Wit C-Shot, slowdown kicks in at the second wave of bullets of the first attack - the 360 port behaves the same iirc.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to experiment as much as I'd want to with this...

[BPzeBanshee]

Hmm, well somewhere between the 62-67% threshold seems to be around right so far. Not sure about it being any more than that, maybe for some games but that's going way out of my spectrum of actual knowledge. We're gonna need people for Galuda 2 and the Ibara games for sure.

[Gus]

Wasn't it proven a few page back that the Futari BL Original port has some noticeable added slowdown? I don't think it's a reliable point of reference in this case.

[Drachenherz]

Wasn't it proven a few page back that the Futari BL Original port has some noticeable added slowdown? I don't think it's a reliable point of reference in this case.

Yes, it was proven, but as BPzeBanshee said, the ports are an aproximation to the PCBs and atm more accurate than mame itself, so they are some kind of "stepping stones" to get closer to the behaviour of the pcbs. But yes, you are right, in the end the fillrates emulating the pcb-behaviour are the important ones, not those emulating the feel of the ports.

[Kewne]

There is no first-hand confirmation of this, and will never be, but it's very easy to see when comparing Futari 1.0 (1.01) Original and Futari BL Original. Same hardware, nearly no slowdown in 1.0, slowdown everywhere on BL.

Player shot types are extremely different though. Given the mashed-up over-the-top shot types in BL, that alone could make up for a huge portion of the difference.

My guess is that it's set to a fixed value (2/3 and 3/4?) for every game and that there's something wrong/different with the calculations. Micromanaging the blitter rate on the fly to cause intentional slowdown is something I really don't see them doing, if they can even do so with steps of ~5%.

[Matskat]

Late to the game here - just got the new games running in my cabinet.

Seems that the Mushimimesama variants run best for me. Mushi runs amazingly well - in comparison with the PS2 port.
Pink Sweets runs slow to start, but once the first wave on enemies appears it's runs smoothly. Ibara is the same way...maybe a little slow compared to my PCB.
Deathsmiles seems to lag in comparison to the NA 360 port, but wasn't there some contention as to whether the NA port was accurate to begin with?

Pork runs slow to start as well - maybe the yagawa stuff is under-optimized

Anyway, nice to see them in my cabinet - as finding a MUshi PCB had proven difficult.

Now for the "too close" part....wonder if P:CB prices will drop because of the playability of this rom set?

[gct]

I looked back a few pages but didn't find anything - was a 64-bit Windows binary for u9 posted anywhere? I'm still on u8 and would like to try the newer one.

I also finally upgraded the CPU in my laptop, now running a dual core i7-2620M @ 2.7GHz. The old i5-2410M was choking a bit on u8 in Deathsmiles so hopefully this can bring it closer to 100%.

Also, how do I access the service menu? I was so thrilled when I thought I cleared Deathsmiles, but then I noticed that I started with 5 lives instead of 3 like I do in my X360 game...
I tried using both the service/test switch key bindings in MAME, but nothing came up.

[emphatic]

I looked back a few pages but didn't find anything - was a 64-bit Windows binary for u9 posted anywhere? I'm still on u8 and would like to try the newer one.

I also finally upgraded the CPU in my laptop, now running a dual core i7-2620M @ 2.7GHz. The old i5-2410M was choking a bit on u8 in Deathsmiles so hopefully this can bring it closer to 100%.

Also, how do I access the service menu? I was so thrilled when I thought I cleared Deathsmiles, but then I noticed that I started with 5 lives instead of 3 like I do in my X360 game...
I tried using both the service/test switch key bindings in MAME, but nothing came up.

Hold "0" for Service mode after the copyright text in-game.

[kevenz]

I looked back a few pages but didn't find anything - was a 64-bit Windows binary for u9 posted anywhere? I'm still on u8 and would like to try the newer one.

I also finally upgraded the CPU in my laptop, now running a dual core i7-2620M @ 2.7GHz. The old i5-2410M was choking a bit on u8 in Deathsmiles so hopefully this can bring it closer to 100%.

Also, how do I access the service menu? I was so thrilled when I thought I cleared Deathsmiles, but then I noticed that I started with 5 lives instead of 3 like I do in my X360 game...
I tried using both the service/test switch key bindings in MAME, but nothing came up.

Here slowpoke v2: http://www.sendspace.com/file/gbmn2b

With your new cpu, are you at 100% with Ibara Black Label and Futari Black Label God mode?

I plan to upgrade my I3-2310m to I5-2540m but since you said the 2410 was choking... I might spend a little more and go for an I7....... not sure if I shoulg go quad core or dual core since quad might suck battery faster.

[fagin]

Now for the "too close" part....wonder if P:CB prices will drop because of the playability of this rom set?

Will they **** as like drop..... well not because of the MAME emulation in any case.

[Estebang]

Arcade history is close to being completely strip-mined.

I mean, if you've got the rig for it, the entire Naomi/Atomiswave library is at your fingertips, and most of the Type X/X2's before they went download-only. Did the Triforce and Chihiro ever get dumped and cracked? I believe the Triforce is another Naomi-based system, and the Chihiro might be able to run without emulation, since it's Windows-based.

[mjclark]

Arcade history is close to being completely strip-mined.

I mean, if you've got the rig for it, the entire Naomi/Atomiswave library is at your fingertips

Apart from Illvelo, and that's the one I'm waiting for...ditto Dariusburst Another Chronicle on Type-X
but otherwise yes...

[Estebang]

Is Illvelo actually a Naomi game? Thought it was made after Sega pulled the plug on GD-ROM manufacturing.

[mjclark]

Is Illvelo actually a Naomi game? Thought it was made after Sega pulled the plug on GD-ROM manufacturing.

As far as me and google can work out it is, and the hi score thread on these forums names it as such but I've always wondered why it's not playable in Makaron when Radilgy and Karous are...
...maybe it's just not been dumped a la DDP DFK and Dariusburst AC.
Those three are the missing link of arcade emulation

[Estebang]

I'd say it'll be a while before we're anywhere close to running Lindbergh stuff on PCs, even if they are Windows-based.

I know that Melty Blood Actress Again was definitely on Naomi--guess they were able to scrape together enough remaining blank GD-ROMs for a small release. Dunno about Current Code.

[BIL]

Melty Blood AA and Illvelo were both Naomi ROM releases.

[Estebang]

Man! Never knew about those!

[BIL]

Me neither actually, until I recently looked into how one might acquire the latest and un-ported Dynamite Deka game (Deka EX).

[nZero]

I believe the Triforce is another Naomi-based system, and the Chihiro might be able to run without emulation, since it's Windows-based.

They're basically Gamecube + GD-ROM drive and XBox + GD-ROM drive, respectively.

[jonny5]

Probably a dumb question, and I apologize if this has been covered already, but why can't I get any of these Slowpoke builds to work with direct draw? They work fine but as soon as I throw in an .ini file setup for my direct draw settings it gives me a 'can't load direct draw' error and won't even load.

I need direct draw to run in native res on the cab.

Aside from that, these are running shockingly well.

EDIT: It runs great on the cab actually , but still would like to know why it wont work with direct draw if anybody knows.

[blackoak]

Probably a dumb question, and I apologize if this has been covered already, but why can't I get any of these Slowpoke builds to work with direct draw? They work fine but as soon as I throw in an .ini file setup for my direct draw settings it gives me a 'can't load direct draw' error and won't even load.

That's strange--I run the first slowpoke build with direct draw on my cab, no problems...

[shmuppyLove]

Probably a dumb question, and I apologize if this has been covered already, but why can't I get any of these Slowpoke builds to work with direct draw? They work fine but as soon as I throw in an .ini file setup for my direct draw settings it gives me a 'can't load direct draw' error and won't even load.

I need direct draw to run in native res on the cab.

Aside from that, these are running shockingly well.

EDIT: It runs great on the cab actually , but still would like to know why it wont work with direct draw if anybody knows.

How come you can't use Direct3D? It's a Radeon X1300 or something no?

[jonny5]

I hadn't tried before. It worked fine.

Oddly enough, it worked with direct x on the mame setup in the cab, but not on my other computer.

What is even weirder is it runs better on the P4 3.4ghz 4 gig RAM radeon x1600agp than it does on my amd dual 2.4 4 gigs RAM nvidia gtx250.

Futari runs pretty smooth, god mode slows down a fair bit on black label.

Mushi runs great, and for some weird reason ultra seems to run smoother than maniac?

Ibara black label runs ok, slows down a bit on the bosses and mega explosions.

Galuda 2 seems to run really well too.

Audio glitching on everything, although mushi is better than the rest.

Really impressed with how well these are running. Hopefully they continue to improve on this and soon it will be running perfect.

[1up]

Finally got around to trying this out. Had to grab it now that Cave sent out a C&D letter

Downloaded the latest slowpoke mame, but can't find this slider people keep referring to?

So far I've tried espgaluda 2 and ibara. I used the 64bit version on my core2duo 2,19ghz laptop. Esp Galuda 2 ran great and only dipped to 95-98% once while the boss died. Didn't expect it to run this well on my laptop?

[joeboto]

Finally got around to trying this out. Had to grab it now that Cave sent out a C&D letter

Downloaded the latest slowpoke mame, but can't find this slider people keep referring to?

So far I've tried espgaluda 2 and ibara. I used the 64bit version on my core2duo 2,19ghz laptop. Esp Galuda 2 ran great and only dipped to 95-98% once while the boss died. Didn't expect it to run this well on my laptop?

i think you have to enable cheats ticked/ edit ini file to enable cheats.