When Spielberg had integrity

[Sumez]

Dude. Crystal Skull was better than Temple.
Raiders and Crusade are almost equal on my scale, but the latter has Sean Connery!

[Skykid]

I really don't understand all the Crusade love. It's not rubbish by any stretch, but it's definitely the weakest.

No, it really is rubbish! Don't doubt yourself.

Never do, but it's always nice to find one guy in there with taste, so thanks for that Dan. I remember thinking it was way more sucky than it should have been last time I watched it (a while ago now). Good to hear I didn't dream it.

Dude. Crystal Skull was better than Temple.

Jesus, what kind of drugs are you lot on?

[Moniker]

I have to make the guilty admission that I didn't really mind Crystal Skull either. Except Shia LeBoeuf. Someone needs to plant kiddy porn on his pc or something similarly career-breaking. Because being bad in bad movies doesn't seem to work these days.

Anyway, it's certainly the worst Indy film, and don't plan on going out of my way to rewatch it, but I don't regret the price of admission. It's not *prequel* bad, dammit.

[dan76]

I must admit as soon as someone starts going on about how great Crusade is... it really gets to me - and my flatmate. It's one of those things, a great mystery of our time, about how highly regarded it is. Many hours have been spent in the kitchen discussing this very same thing whilst waiting for the kettle to boil. There was something about it on the radio the other week. People calling in saying how great it was. Maybe it's an age thing?

I was too gutless to post. I read the comments and thought no, just don't get involved. Walk away, walk away.

Taste, it's not something that can be learned.

[GaijinPunch]

Skykid chose... poorly.

Win.

[Aguraki]

Taste, it's not something that can be learned.

Do I detect irony here?

I don't get the problem tho,I love all 3 episodes (4th missed the point to me) and don't want to downvote one cause another one is great.
Can't they all be great and you prefer one?

Taste,is personnal.

[blackoak]

People like TLC more just because its a more sentimental, intimate view of the characters they've come to love in the previous films. People also like to think highly of themselves by noting that Short Round is racis', Kapshaw is sexis', the film is "dated" in its portrayal of foreignness, etc... As for me, I like both, but I like TOD more for the reasons Skykid gave above: exotic locales, a bit more menace and danger, "adventure" pacing, less moralizing than TLC... I never took IJ very seriously so I don't see TLC being some big improvement in that regard.

[Moniker]

People also like to think highly of themselves by noting that Short Round is racis', Kapshaw is sexis', the film is "dated" in its portrayal of foreignness, etc...

Nope, it's just Capshaw. Not for being sexist, just being bad. I mean, I guess if you were a pretentious prick you could say that the Indy series is Orientalism 101. But that's part of what gives it its charm, for whatever that's worth. It's pulp fiction that hearkens back to the Edgar Rice Burroughs days with an awesomely skewed portrayal of history. It's sort of like modern fiction with a romantic portrayal of the samurai. No it's not accurate in the least, but who really cares?

I'm all psyched to go watch temple of doom right now. It's been too long.

[Skykid]

I'm all psyched to go watch temple of doom right now. It's been too long.

Do it, film is badass. They jump out of a plane in a fucking dinghy and live. All good.

[CMoon]

The first half of Temple of Doom is probably the best of the Indiana Jones movies, unfortunately there's that second half...

[CMoon]

I really don't understand all the Crusade love. It's not rubbish by any stretch, but it's definitely the weakest.

No, it really is rubbish! Don't doubt yourself.

You two aren't the only ones. The only part about Crusade I rather like is how Indiana and his dad are scoring with the same chick.

[Skykid]

The first half of Temple of Doom is probably the best of the Indiana Jones movies, unfortunately there's that second half...

Dewd, the mine cart ride is exceptional, even today. It holds up so well, it's a real rollercoaster ride. That's then followed by "water!", cliff hanging, a Star Wars tribute, and the gutsiest move Indy ever pulled: chopping a rope bridge in half with a shit load of people on it.

Now compare that to the ending of Raiders - box opens up, ghosts come out, kill Nazis, the end - and we're talking a big screen adventure finale like few others.

There is some shit in TOD that isn't great, given. The kids are all pretty dumb and some of the slapstick is a little grating, but it gets by on being dark, exceptionally violent, full of traps, a couple of twists and a pretty magical location. And sure, it's full of racial and sexual stereotypes, but isn't that what the 80's was all about?

You two aren't the only ones. The only part about Crusade I rather like is how Indiana and his dad are scoring with the same chick.

Ah good. Welcome to camp sensible.

[Moniker]

Now compare that to the ending of Raiders - box opens up, ghosts come out, kill Nazis, the end - and we're talking a big screen adventure finale like few others.

The ending of Raiders is a forever thing. Like the heart-removal ritual in ToD. It's not about the action, it's about the power & the glory.

As an aside, I noticed last night that the plane engines failing in ToD used the sound effects from Empire Strikes Back when the light speed wouldn't work. Very excellent.

[greg]

I spoiled The Last Crusade for myself by reading the novel before watching the movie. I just couldn't wait. From then on, I made a policy of not reading the movie book before the movie comes out. That doesn't include LOTR though, since those books were around forever before the movies came along.

Anyhow, I kinda agree with Skykid. Temple of Doom is pretty badass, moreso than Crusade. Crusade had Nazis again, which was cool, but it was like it was treading on familiar grounds too much.

I read the novelizations to all of the Indiana Jones books when I was in the 8th grade or so. What's interesting is that if I recall correctly, the scene with Brody walking into Indy's class while it was still in session didn't happen in Raiders. Also, the gag with Indy shooting the swordsman in Raiders that was rehashed in Temple... chronologically, Temple happens BEFORE Raiders!

Super Famicom Fan X! ^_~

Oh yeah, and I thought Crystal Skull wasn't so bad. I loved the Soviets in the movies. There were some dumb parts in it, like the Tarzan swinging on the vines part. That was pretty dumb. Way dumber than the guy getting eaten by ants, or the flying saucer, which wasn't all that bad, IMHO. I haven't gone out of my way to buy the Crystal Skull on DVD yet, though.

[Sumez]

Come on, Crusade was pure fucking adventure all the way through. He invades a nazi castle, escapes from a blimp, jumps from car to car punching bad guys across the desert, gets Hitler's autograph and finds the holy grail! It has Marcus Brody and Sallah back in the act, two characters that were sorely missed in Temple, and tops it off with Sean god damn Connery. How can you compete with that?

Temple of Doom was great to start out with, but sort of gave up on its own ambitions once they actually reached the titular temple, and even though there's possibly even more slapstick in Crusade, it just seems more obtrusive in Temple because they don't play it as well. As someone stated earlier in the thread, Indy and dad hitting the same chick is one of the best "womanizer jokes" in the series.

[Skykid]

Come on, Crusade was pure fucking adventure all the way through. He invades a nazi castle, escapes from a blimp, jumps from car to car punching bad guys across the desert, gets Hitler's autograph and finds the holy grail! It has Marcus Brody and Sallah back in the act, two characters that were sorely missed in Temple, and tops it off with Sean god damn Connery. How can you compete with that?

It's really not as good as you remember it.

[Sumez]

It's been all the times I rewatched it, which is probably a lot by now. On the other hand I loved Temple the first time I saw it and didn't understand why people considered it the worst. It practically did nothing for me every time I've seen it since.

[Moniker]

Yeah I just watched Temple again and was kind of underwhelmed. Like Sumez said it starts out great, but once the heart comes out and everyone gets captured/recaptured/etc., it starts to drag. There were lots of little things that got on my nerves, like Capshaw's physical slapstick, the weird dubbed voices of the indian children, the same clip of alligators eating cloth everytime a henchman fell off the bridge, the thrice repeated appearance of the throng of joyous child-slave extras at the end. The main villain was still great, though, and Short Round stayed pretty good throughout.

Also, Capshaw eating the apple out of Indy's hand was hawt.

[neorichieb1971]

I love how a few 100 gallons of water in TOD turns into "waterfall" proportions of water. The worst bit by far is the editing. The fight on the conveyor belt is ridiculous. One second Indy is about to have his head reshaped, the next second the music starts playing and they are 6 feet from the roll crusher.

Crystall Skull is pants. Shia Laboef needs to be eaten if there is a part 5.

My preference is 1,2,3,4. I can already say 5 will be the weakest if its made.

[emphatic]

http://fanedit.org/588/

[Moniker]

http://fanedit.org/588/

That dude took out the heart-ripping ritual. What's the point of watching the freaking movie without that part?

Yeah the editing of the crusher part was pretty bad. I remember even thinking so as a kid. Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ZdMc#t=39s

[greg]

The fight on the conveyor belt is ridiculous. One second Indy is about to have his head reshaped, the next second the music starts playing and they are 6 feet from the roll crusher.

Come on, the movie's supposed to be like that. How about, "Throw me the idol, I throw you the whip?" That door is halfway down, then it's up again. Indiana Jones is a tribute to those old serials, and the effects are supposed to be cheesy.

[Sumez]

Yeah, that particular part of TOD is excellent

[Mischief Maker]

People love Crusade and consider TOD to be a dud because Crusade had interesting characters with while TOD had godawful paper cutouts. Period. End of story. Transformers 3 has giant robots leveling Chicago but nobody gives a crap because all the people in peril are bottom-of-the-barrel comic relief stereotypes.

I suppose that one could argue TOD most resembles the old serials that originally inspired the series, but that's part of what made Raiders and Star Wars great: improving on their inspiration instead of merely aping it.

Nothing but glowing talk about Spielberg's influence on video gaming? Does nobody remember Trespasser?

[NTSC-J]

Inspired by this thread, I rewatched the Indiana Jones trilogy. It's been at least 15 years since I saw any of them, so I could enjoy them with my now jaded eyes.

Raiders - Cheesier than I remember it. I forgot the Looney Tunes-bullshit and have a hard time with any man-to-man fist fight in movies since it's always way off from reality. I know this is fantasy and fun and its not supposed to be blah blah, but tough titty. It sucks. I liked the opening scene and the ending scene and the parts where they're sitting around talking about the Ark. 6/10

Temple - I'm not even sure I saw this one before. I really only recall the opening scene, which is somehow the best part of the movie. What a turd. I like when Indy goes from locale to locale on his treasure hunts, but much of this movie takes place in that one sacrifice room. Terribly offensive characters and just not very interesting. Getting real tired of the "walls closing in, shut down all garbage mashers on the detention level! hurry!" scenes. One per trilogy is all I'll allow. 4/10

Crusade - Better than Raiders in that it has the best characters, although still too corny for me. Again I found the most interesting parts were them talking about the grail, rather than the hammy action scenes. 6/10

Never did really care much for these movies, but they're irresistible if you're a 10-year-old white boy.

[moozooh]

Honest opinion: Indy movies convey the feeling of adventure way better than SW movies.

Discuss. :P

[Strider77]

I have to actually agree with Skykid for once on liking Temple of Doom more than the Last Crusade. I like the Last Crusade but I love Raiders and Temple of Doom more.

Raiders > Temple of Doom.... the rest I don't care enough to rank them in order. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the other two I just don't adore them.

But I have to totally disagree with you on the ending to Raiders Skykid... was not a "meh" moment for me at all.

Skykid chose... poorly.


Win.

You got SERVED!!

[Skykid]

What I don't get is all the acceptance for Crystal Skull. Now THAT was a complete pile of shit through and through. I'd take Crusade over Crystal any day of the week.

[maxlords]

Can't believe I missed this.

Raiders is great. However, it has not aged well...watched it recently and found most notably that the REALLY heavy overdramatic music was rather irritating. Still the best of the lot.

TLC is second...its funny, it has a decent plot, it's over the top of course, but it's no Raiders. Still...Indy and his dad banging the same Nazi is gold, and the end is pretty solid.

Temple of Doom is...ok. It's filler Indy IMO. Watchable, but tedious, primarily because it falls flat on the mythological artifact section of the Indy style. You have the Holy Grail, the friggin Ark of the Covenant....and some glowy stones. Fuck that. I wanted something solid. The Spear of Destiny, the lost city of Atlantis...something suitable for Indy. Just makes it weak. There are some great scenes but the movie as a whole is only passable in comarison with Raiders and TLC.

And then there's KotCS. *sigh*. Complete sell out, completely crap, bullshit on the mythology. Literally nothing but Harrison Ford doing stunts with Spielberg's pet actor. Just flat out awful. The last half of the movie is so bad it's practically unwatchable. The only scene that was pure Indy IMO was the one with the fridge and the nuke. Just sad.

[moozooh]

The fridge and the nuke scene was ace, I agree. Over the top, hilarious, and effective.