Perfect shmups

Lyle · Post by **Lyle** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:52 am

Though the notion of perfection in video games is a tricky one, what are the shmups that you think are the closest to perfection ?

To me, perfection isn't necessarily related to absolute greatness. I can consider a shmup as one of the greatest ever made and still think it's basically flawed. G Darius is the best example I can think of. On the other hand, a shmup that's only very good can be reproach-proof by succeeding everything it attempted and doing nothing more. In this respect, many Toaplan titles ARE perfect.

One can also consider there's perfection when a shmup features everything the genre has brought from its birth to nowadays. This is how I'm tempted to define perfection when I think of Layer Lection.

It's technically flawless (well, at least the Saturn version is), it's spectacular, it takes into account 10 years of shmup heritage and at the same time has its share of innovations, it's spectacular, it's a game of constant rhythm AND a game of moments, of situations, the chains system is intricate enough for good replay value, it has excellent design, soundtrack with personality, and difficulty, learning curve and patterns are perfectly balanced...

The thing is, I can't say it's my all time fav. Sure, I love it to bits. But it's "just" among my top 20. It's just that when I wonder what could be changed or improved in that game, each time my conclusion is "nothing". When playing it I can't help reading perfection on its face.

So, what are the shmup(s) that you feel is / are the embodiment of this asbtract, unearthly notion that is perfection ?

ResOGlas · Post by **ResOGlas** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:53 am

DoDonPachi.

There are other games that are more difficult. There are other games that have more original design. There are other games I might prefer to play. However, I go back to DoDonPachi the most. Thus in my mind, it is as perfect as it can get. The replay value is consistant. How perfect can a game be without consistance of enjoyment?

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:21 am

Perfection is too strong a word, but Ikaruga is the one closest to the meaning of the word. Radiant Silvergun is also close, but the character design lacks the right "epic war drama" flair.

LoneSage · Post by **LoneSage** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:34 am

Ikaruga; everything Treasure envisioned Ikaruga to be came out like a work of art.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:57 am

Power Strike. Compile are the only ones to ever match the dedication for a Shmup that Cave has.

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:51 am

My vote's for Ikaruga. It's Bach in video game form.

LAshujin · Post by **LAshujin** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:55 am

Blech Ikaruga is a genius game, but is bland in presentation - it's far from perfect

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:04 am

It's so meticulously planned and well executed, though! Its music is well done and appropriately pretentious, and the action is choreographed to boot. The art is well done and thematically sound, but I'll admit that a little more variety would have been nice.

A common complaint of technically advanced works, such as those of Bach, is that they seem soulless. I suppose people could accuse Ikaruga of being soulless.

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:23 am

Ikaruga.

While you could probably classify many shooters as "technically" perfect, in that they have incredibly refined mechanics, level design, and balance (Cave shooters come to mind), Ikaruga goes further. Its vision transcends being "just" a solid game, with its thematic concept being the basis for every aspect- from its stunning art direction and passionate soundtrack to direct relevance to the gameplay mechanic. It has context.

This is why a shooter with the most perfect bullet patterns imaginable wouldn't necessarily surpass it- no more than a brilliantly conceived murder scene would ensure a great detective novel or a painstakingly choreographed CG sequence would ensure a great action movie.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:40 am

I'm going to say ikaruga also. It's like playing a tetris/puzzle game at the same time. Plus, I'm racist, so it's great just letting white ships pass. I never get out of chapter 1, though.

...just kidding.

Pedro Lambrini · Post by **Pedro Lambrini** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:30 am

Being a born-again Shmupper(!?) there was a lot of years between contemporary games for me. The last game I played at release was probably SWIV and then nothing really until SNS II. Coming back to Shmups and looking at the evolution that passed me by makes it all the harder for me to choose a 'perfect' shmup. I'm not that wowed by Radiant Silvergun and DoDonpachi (call me ignorant!). I can see why everyone else loves them and they are lovely games - I particularly like RS's soundtrack - but I can't see them as perfect.

To me the perfect game would be the one that inspired me to start playing shmups again. The one that made fall in love with this genre again. That would have to be SNS II - flaws'n'all!

And, yeah, I know the soundtrack is terrible!

gundamalpha · Post by **gundamalpha** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:16 pm

my personal favourite, or being perfect in my opinion, has to be battle garegga. i can still pick it up and play for hours anyday, which i can't do with others

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:40 pm

gundamalpha wrote:my personal favourite, or being perfect in my opinion, has to be battle garegga. i can still pick it up and play for hours anyday, which i can't do with others

I agree. Probably my favourite shooter.

Post by **system11** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:57 pm

Gradius V

al138 · Post by **al138** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:09 pm

Another vote for Gradius V...but R-Type Delta is very close.

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:48 pm

Hails!

Just off the top of my head, I'd have to say the NES versions of Gradius 2 and Life Force are perfect. Gradius V is brilliant too. I wouldn't have called it perfect initially, because I didn't think much of the soundtrack, but it really grew on me after a while. Hell, every Gradius game is perfect.

Mushihimesama arrived a few days ago. I'm only just scratching the surface, but it looks like it could shape up to be pretty damn perfect, hehe.

Lyle · Post by **Lyle** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:08 pm

I've only one gripe about Ikaruga - it's way too short. One big level of RSG = all Ikaruga. I wanted more, Mr. Treasure.

Very consumerist notion of perfection, I agree though...

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:19 am

DonPachi. The perfect balance between old/new style shooting.

And though I know many will disagree, R-Type. It defined my taste for shooters 20 years ago, and I'm still playing it now.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:51 am

when i hear perfection, the first shooters that come to my mind are:

Ikaruga
Einhander (WHY hasn't Squenix made a sequel yet...?)
Psyvariar Revision
G-Darius
DDP
Espgaluda
Bangaioh
Shooter: Space Shot*

guess that list makes me a mainstreamer... :/

*just kidding, i hate that god-awful Thunderforce clone.

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:32 am

When I think of perfection, I think "High water mark".

The games I can think of right now that reached that level were:

LifeForce
Thunderforce 3
Radiant Silvergun (Treasure's high water mark, not Ikaruga)
Zanac
R-Type Delta
Einhander
Axelay

Bkeela · Post by **Bkeela** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:56 pm

It seems fairly unanimous.

I say Ikaruga. It was the game that made me a shooter fan. I grew up playing Xevious and Raiden, but the genre didn't mean a great deal to me. Then I saw Ikaruga, and was stunned. If I could have only one game to last me for the rest of my life, you know what it would be.

Since Ikaruga I've expanded my tastes. I'm now importing Cave titles, and anything I can get my hands on for the PS2. But Ikaruga I will always return to. It remains unconquered territory.

Onken · Post by **Onken** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:17 pm

altho by no means perfect (as i find once you die its hard to get the power-ups bak up to strenth before your mobbed by bullets) but one of the finest shmups has to be SLAP FIGHT ! the way you move and the music are awesome, its all about gettin those seeker missiles !

one of the first shmups that laid down the law !

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:53 pm

Bkeela wrote:It seems fairly unanimous.

I say Ikaruga. It was the game that made me a shooter fan. I grew up playing Xevious and Raiden, but the genre didn't mean a great deal to me. Then I saw Ikaruga, and was stunned. If I could have only one game to last me for the rest of my life, you know what it would be.

Since Ikaruga I've expanded my tastes. I'm now importing Cave titles, and anything I can get my hands on for the PS2. But Ikaruga I will always return to. It remains unconquered territory.

How can you say it's unanimous when only six out of seventeen votes mentioned Ikaruga, one of which listed several other games as well?

I don't care for Ikaruga as much as shooters like Gradius Gaiden, Gradius V, R-Type Delta, and Shikigami no Shiro II. In my opinion, the complexity added by the polarity shifting makes the game far, far too much of a "thinker" to be a genuine shooter. I mean, obviously the game is 100% shmup, and a beautifully polished one at that, but in my admittedly limited experience, most shooters require far less thinking than Ikaruga. Which is not to say they require less strategy or skill, mind you.

Anyway, I think Gradius Gaiden is about as close to gaming perfection as it gets. The levels are always interesting, the difficulty curve is perfect, the music is amazingly catchy, all the obvious things like accurate hit detection and smooth controls are in place. The pace of the game is the best part.

kemical · Post by **kemical** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:43 pm

Raiden 2 / Raiden

they've gotten the most replayability than any other shooter I've played.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:56 pm

I'd say Ikaruga because as far as the game goes, the design is flawless. Everythin about the game from the bullet patterns to the enemy formations and bosses are designed perfectly around the gameplay mechanisms (chaining, bullet absorption and color switching). I can't think of a game that does it to a higher degree than Ikaruga. Just watch one of the 2 player vids on ikaruga.co.uk and the genius and balance of the design is displayed in its full glory.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:19 pm

I realy hate to use the term "perfect" in relation to any game (even my all-time favorites have flaws), but I suppose I might toss in a mention of DoDonPachi as well...to me, it's got pretty much the whole package. Good presentation, easy-to-see bullets, precise control, impressive weapons, very fair gameplay, the works. Also, it can be very easily and capably played to one's liking; someone can just focus on the manicness and have a grand old time going for a straight 1CC, but those who don't mind a little memorization a la R-Type can spend some time learning the chaining patterns. Incredibly balanced, accessible, challenging, and inviting to all. Perfect? Not at all. But imo it's about as close as shmupdom has come to it.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:28 pm

^^^I guess further confirmation that this game nears perfection comes from the fact that each year DDP is at the very top of the top 25 shmups of all time, according to voting here at this forum.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:29 pm

Perfect shmup topic, the time to display Ikaruga love.

the2bears · Post by **the2bears** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:35 pm

Perfection is highly opinionated

For pure brilliance in level design I think Ikaruga is perfect. To chain or not, and if so the challenge and variety in groupings of three. Art in its essence if you ask me. It doesn't hurt that it has great sound and graphics too

Bill

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:48 pm

How did a game with bland corridors and crates as "enemies" get a reputation for great graphics.

Second, how about a chaining game where it's possible to ignore and still have some fun (DDP) or a chaining system far more versatile (Mars Matrix)? Surely these games are just as meticulously planned, except they have options other than chain/skip the chain.