I finally fucking beat it.

[Siren2011]

After getting to the last phase of the last boss only to die with a sliver of his health remaining 3 TIMES IN A ROW (throws chair), I have FINALLY defeated Jakou in Espgaluda. It only took me 4 years. But, hey. At least all of that skill that was slowly cultivated and refined has made other shmups easier as well.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to celebrate.

[BPzeBanshee]

Excellent. My personal best carked it at the Alice clones.

I don't suppose you recorded an input replay by any chance or anything like that eh?

[chempop]

Haha Congrats! I knew this was going to about Galuda, seems a lot of us have struggled with taking that last form down. Even after I beat it with both characters it's still a game I can go back to again and again and still thoroughly enjoy.

What "version" did you use (PCB, PS2, Mame)? Ageha or Tateha?
Have you 1CC'd Galuda2?

[Siren2011]

My personal best carked it at the Alice clones.

They are total whores, aren't they? I found them to be A LOT easier when I'm playing on a gigantic ass CRT (which I'm crazy enough to flip on it's side for best possible resolution.) Not me playing, obviously. (Superplay)

I don't suppose you recorded an input replay by any chance or anything like that eh?

Ha. I wish. I actually just found out about that after I beat the game. Now that I think about it, it would have been a pretty epic watch.

What "version" did you use (PCB, PS2, Mame)? Ageha or Tateha?

I played the PS2 port and used Ageha. Tateha is a total pain to use as far as I'm concerned. Arika did a great job with arrange, though. I'm certain that I will check it out in depth in the near future.

Have you 1CC'd Galuda2?

Nope. You have no idea how badly I want to play that game, though. My younger brother has the 360, and he moves in around Christmastime. So it looks like Black Label would be the perfect present.

This worked out great. I told myself I would prohibit myself from playing the sequel until I finished the first one. This victory couldn't have come at a better time, because shit is about to get real in my psychology and music history classes. I'll be lucky if I can sneak in fifteen minutes worth of game time in between everything.

[RNGmaster]

Nice job. I can't see how anyone can consider Galuda an easy 1cc when the final boss makes Garra Motherfucking Ono look like a wimp. It's just crazy stuff, and I salute you, Siren, for being able to pull it off.

[Bananamatic]

good job

I game overed on the final 2 more times yesterday

galuda is the only TCFC game I didn't 1cc yet

[NzzpNzzp]

Nice job. I can't see how anyone can consider Galuda an easy 1cc when the final boss makes Garra Motherfucking Ono look like a wimp. It's just crazy stuff, and I salute you, Siren, for being able to pull it off.

Well, the rest of the game is easy enough that you can have like four lives going into the fight. He's hard, but he's not four lives hard, right?

Not to denigrate anyone's achievements or anything though.

[professor ganson]

Well, the rest of the game is easy enough that you can have like four lives going into the fight. He's hard, but he's not four lives hard, right?

Not to denigrate anyone's achievements or anything though.

Speak for yourself.

Congrats! Years and years ago I credit fed my way through, and that last part is just insane.

[Ruldra]

Good job. Never even managed to reach him, and now that I sold my PS2 the 1cc is a distant dream now.

[Siren2011]

It's just crazy stuff, and I salute you, Siren, for being able to pull it off.

Why, thank you sir. This would be my third shmup 1CC. The other two being Guwange and Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, in order of completion.

I can't see how anyone can consider Galuda an easy 1cc when the final boss makes Garra Motherfucking Ono look like a wimp.

The main game has very manageable patterns. If it wasn't for my inexperience with the genre (and no doubt genetic factors had somewhat of an influence, as some people are more inherently talented in areas than others.), I would have finished the game in a much shorter time. But I like how this went down, because this way I was able to savor every section of every stage in a way that a simple credit feed wouldn't allow. Basically like a snake eating a slightly larger animal (babies, *cough*). It takes time to digest it.

But yes, it's his final pattern that would discourage me from achieving glory for quite a while. Though it's slightly less insane than Guwange's last boss' final attack.

Well, the rest of the game is easy enough that you can have like four lives going into the fight. He's hard, but he's not four lives hard, right?

LOL. It's really weird, because there were multiple occasions where I had four, even five lives at the machine with four wings. The problem with that was, once I was aware of it (I hate to pay attention to lives in most shooters, because it preoccupies me when my attention should surrender completely to enjoying the game, even when I lose lives.), I started getting nervous and lost them all eventually. It's such a relief to be done with this game. For those who are interested, during the last explosion of the final boss I had no extra lives remaining, nor bomb juice. Overdrive mode helped a lot, but mostly I used normal shot.

[chempop]

Wow, Guwange clear is no joke, that's one Cave game I find to be an exhausting challenge (up there with Dangun, Ibara, and Pink Sweets). Definitely test your skills with Galuda's Arrange mode, it's a massacre compared to Arcade mode.

Any plans on checking out Mushi and DOJ for PS2, they are wholeheartedly worthwhile before getting caught up with 360 titles.

[Uzumakijl]

[...]This would be my third shmup 1CC. The other two being Guwange and Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, in order of completion.[...]

How come you clear Guwange and Ketsui yet have problems with ESPGaluda ?

It's quite the opposite for me, I've almost 1CC'd (Literally 1 pixel left) ESPGaluda in less than 10 hours yet i can't get to 1-5 consistently on Ketsui on like 40+ hours

[BPzeBanshee]

[...]This would be my third shmup 1CC. The other two being Guwange and Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, in order of completion.[...]

How come you clear Guwange and Ketsui yet have problems with ESPGaluda ?

It's quite the opposite for me, I've almost 1CC'd (Literally 1 pixel left) ESPGaluda in less than 10 hours yet i can't get to 1-5 consistently on Ketsui on like 40+ hours

Most people have problems getting anywhere with manic games, yet I got better at Raiden Fighters JET than Kaiser within a week. Can't clear a Cave game on its Arcade mode for shit though.

I'm amazed you could get anywhere with Guwange as well, Siren. Even on 360 Arrange I have issues with the stupid final boss phase.

[Kaiser]

Most people have problems getting anywhere with manic games, yet I got better at Raiden Fighters JET than Kaiser within a week. Can't clear a Cave game on its Arcade mode for shit though.

I'm amazed you could get anywhere with Guwange as well, Siren. Even on 360 Arrange I have issues with the stupid final boss phase.

He has the point, he got to the Phase 2 boss faster than I did in about like what, 10 hours?

[MrChiggins]

Hooray! Mad props on your 1-ALL list by the way. I'll probably never 1-ALL Ketsui because it makes me feel like an asshole if I'm not going for the highest score possible. So I won't ever clear it unless I get one of the top scores in the world. I used to think this meant Ketsui has the best Cave scoring system because scoring is ALWAYS equal to risk and you can often improvise, but I don't think it has the best system anymore because (to me anyway) there are slight amounts of enjoyment and grace lost in the fact that scoring is never EVER linked to survival. Progear wins and is the yummiest.

I had no extra lives remaining, nor bomb juice.

lol

[Siren2011]

It's quite the opposite for me, I've almost 1CC'd (Literally 1 pixel left)

Ah, so this is a common problem. I heard (but didn't watch) about this video of some dude getting to the true last boss of Ketsui and getting a game over with a sliver of its health left. That would just be mortifying.

How come you clear Guwange and Ketsui yet have problems with ESPGaluda?

I think it has something to do with the fact that I had years of experience with shmups under my belt by the time I played Ketsui, so it only took a good six months of heavy, grueling, self demanding play sessions before I could get a 1CC. With Guwange, they hand out so many of those health items+ slow bullet speed mechanic, that the stages themselves are relatively not demanding. It's the last boss that fucks ya in the ass. Same with Galuda, at least in my case. I can't wait to beat ESPrade's last boss. I hear through the grapevine that she's a total cunt (I've only gotten to the first phase, past the clones, and when the statue head breaks or something).

Any plans on checking out Mushi and DOJ for PS2, they are wholeheartedly worthwhile before getting caught up with 360 titles.

I've been playing DOJ for as long as Galuda (since early '08), and I can ONLY make it to halfway through the 5th stage. It seems I've hit a dead end, because I have no idea how to keep many lives until then. It just goes to show you what a fucking colossal game that is. Mushi, I can make it to the true last boss, but I'm completely helpless against his attacks, so I quit and play Ibara instead.

...Galuda's Arrange mode, it's a massacre compared to Arcade mode.

On a good day, I can make it to stage 3. But usually I get my ass kicked at the stage 2 boss. You basically HAVE to have bomb shit left during certain parts and USE IT. I always forget, or waste it...

I'll probably never 1-ALL Ketsui because it makes me feel like an asshole if I'm not going for the highest score possible. So I won't ever clear it unless I get one of the top scores in the world.

With all due respect for your personal method for clearing the game, that seems a little bit counter intuitive. Improving your score well before the clear is recommended, but trying to achieve what you're talking about is insane as far as I'm concerned. It's typically easier to score with the greats after you've gotten relaxed with the game, i.e. finished it at least twice.

But don't listen to me. I'm sure if Mozart was hypersensitive to criticism of his work, he would have caved in and vowed to never make more music again, leaving the world to never hear some of his best work for centuries to come. So who knows? If you'll ignore me and stick to your own path you just might find what you're looking for and surprise the rest of us in the process. And yes, Progear No Arashi has one of my favorite scoring systems out of any genre.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

It feels like in Ketsui that you can't get away with not playing for score. It's kind of like Garegga in that sense, except Ketsui doesn't have stupid rank issues. If you're not point blanking stuff, you're not killing quickly. If you're not killing quickly, screen gets flooded and you die. When I play it, I try to play aggressively because you get destroyed for not doing so. Of course, then you have the risk of mistakes. I've gotten to stage 5 once and stage 4 a few times.

I'm going to try to 1-all DOJ BL first though, as I've actually gotten to the final boss once. Just need to get a run that doesn't screw up. I actually should have had it the one time I made it there, but I died on the final phase with a bomb in stock.

I still need to get ESPGaluda to work since I'd like to play it, and it seems like it'd be an easy clear since I've gotten to stage 6 a few times on ESPGaluda II, and it's supposed to be the easiest of the DOJ/Ketsui/Galuda games.

[BPzeBanshee]

It feels like in Ketsui that you can't get away with not playing for score. It's kind of like Garegga in that sense, except Ketsui doesn't have stupid rank issues.

It's only stupid because you tried Garegga for five seconds and was just like:

[chempop]

Mushi, I can make it to the true last boss, but I'm completely helpless against his attacks, so I quit and play Ibara instead.

Pretty sure the TLB is only in Ultra and Arrange... Unless there are requirements I don't know about, but I beat Original and Maniac and didn't see him in either. I beat Arrange once, know idea how but I'm guessing it was 99% luck

DOJ is indeed a beast. I've only 1-Alled Black Label once, thinking of going back and trying to clear White Label soon.

[Bananamatic]

DOJBL isn't much harder than DDP

[MrChiggins]

I'll probably never 1-ALL Ketsui because it makes me feel like an asshole if I'm not going for the highest score possible. So I won't ever clear it unless I get one of the top scores in the world.

With all due respect for your personal method for clearing the game, that seems a little bit counter intuitive. Improving your score well before the clear is recommended, but trying to achieve what you're talking about is insane as far as I'm concerned. It's typically easier to score with the greats after you've gotten relaxed with the game, i.e. finished it at least twice.

But don't listen to me. I'm sure if Mozart was hypersensitive to criticism of his work, he would have caved in and vowed to never make more music again, leaving the world to never hear some of his best work for centuries to come. So who knows? If you'll ignore me and stick to your own path you just might find what you're looking for and surprise the rest of us in the process. And yes, Progear No Arashi has one of my favorite scoring systems out of any genre.

Yeah maybe I'll reach a point where I feel more relaxed with it but I've put 20-30 hours in at the moment... and I still only consistently reach stage 3 XD. It's certainly the only game that's ever granted me that specific kind of obsessive play style. As for the DDP series, my play style is the complete opposite... "Chaining!? Who the hell can chain!? I'll just go for the 1-ALL and try to chain to the best of my ability on the way..."

It feels like in Ketsui that you can't get away with not playing for score. It's kind of like Garegga in that sense, except Ketsui doesn't have stupid rank issues. If you're not point blanking stuff, you're not killing quickly. If you're not killing quickly, screen gets flooded and you die. When I play it, I try to play aggressively because you get destroyed for not doing so.

Ketsui does reward aggressive play but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with scoring. Scoring requires aggressive play but aggressive play doesn't require scoring if you know what I mean. Scoring itself doesn't contribute to your survival at all besides giving you extends. But in Garegga you kind of have to play for score in order to get those extends to rank control with. Scoring is more integral to survival.

[WarpZone]

Congrats Siren!

Am I the only one that didn't find the final pattern that bad? I mean, it's hard (and certainly confusing until you understand what's going on with Jakou's shield), but in the end I think I actually had more trouble with the third-to-last pattern. Even though kakusei barely damages the boss, it's helpful for moving into a safer location, and you can do this several times on a fresh life before running out of gems.

I still need to get ESPGaluda to work since I'd like to play it, and it seems like it'd be an easy clear since I've gotten to stage 6 a few times on ESPGaluda II, and it's supposed to be the easiest of the DOJ/Ketsui/Galuda games.

Indeed, the Galuda II experience should help a lot. I was reaching the first game's final level after just a few credits, but have a ton of trouble even by the fourth boss in Galuda II...

[Illyrian]

I've actually never had too much trouble with the final pattern.

I purposefully try and commit suicide during that pattern. By that I mean I wait until a bullet it directly above or below me and try to ram into it vertically and it always misses me, no matter the angle. I basically make the bullets dodge me.

You have to be able to turn that thought process off for the rest of the game though or you'll be suiciding a lot!

[Skykid]

I've actually never had too much trouble with the final pattern.

I purposefully try and commit suicide during that pattern. By that I mean I wait until a bullet it directly above or below me and try to ram into it vertically and it always misses me, no matter the angle. I basically make the bullets dodge me.

Ha ha, that's an interesting technique, but for some reason I can see it working for that pattern.

[Tetsuo]

Congrats mate, rather you them me, im all out of fng chairs

[Siren2011]

im all out of fng chairs.

I can relate.

[Illyrian]

I've actually never had too much trouble with the final pattern.

I purposefully try and commit suicide during that pattern. By that I mean I wait until a bullet it directly above or below me and try to ram into it vertically and it always misses me, no matter the angle. I basically make the bullets dodge me.

Ha ha, that's an interesting technique, but for some reason I can see it working for that pattern.

Nah it does at least for a while, right at the end when the lines of bullets are undulating as much as they do it's way more dangerous and you have to just do it the normal way.

Try it yourself, it really does work at the beginning!

[blackoak]

I 1cc'd espgaluda today, too... 27 million, so lots of room to improve on score. I think I put about 10-12 hours into it... started playing it last week. I did a lot of save state grinding on the last boss, to the point where I think that was the easiest part! I've found that I can now no-miss most cave stages/bosses on a good run, but my playing deteroriates 200% when I'm nervous (ie anytime I'm doing well). Being able to get really familiar with Jakou's patterns really took the edge off.

I do think ESPGaluda is quite easy, as people say... just the kakusei, the really abundant bomb meter (plus the way you can have a sliver and use it as a last-ditch autobomb while in overmode or kakusei), and the patterns themselves just seem easier than DDP, my only other Cave clear (1ALL, that is). Its great how it trains the player though, and gives them time to mentally process the bullet patterns... I'd definitely recommend it to new players instead of (or in addition to) DDP.

And now for some further unrequested bloviati--err, reflection... I'm no great player, but looking back on the last six months, I'd say playing on a cab and playing with a joystick were the two biggest things that have improved my skills. Sometime while grinding ESPGaluda I noticed how locked in I was with the stick now... tap dodging, clean diagonals, swirly loops and such can now be done reflexively. I really struggled with that at first, but persevered because playing with a stick was so much more fun. After DDP, I also had a 2-3 month period of playing random games without too much commitment, just trying stuff out. I think that really helped, rather than immediately diving into some other game. Futari, DOJ, Toaplan stuff, some Psikyo... I could say a lot about what I think each one teaches, but that would be another thread...

The most unexpected boost to my abilities came after I played the cabs at CAX--my first time playing a shmup on an actual cab, believe it or not. I had been experimenting with a number of different screen setups at home... I even bought one of those hulking rotatable lcd stands to tate my big LCD tv. But playing on a cab, sitting at that precise distance, with the monitor at that precise angle and size, made me realize that this was the way these games were meant to be played. I don't say that to express an aesthetic preference (that would be another thread too), but rather that if you want to dodge all this complex shit... well, its evolved over years of game design on this ONE specific setup: the arcade candy cab. At least, thats what I thought and felt after playing on a cab for the first time at CAX and seemingly having an easier time sight dodging. Later I realized I was just playing DDP:DFK and that its an easy game, but the theory has been borne out, as I now own an Astro City and a Cyber Lead, for tate and horis respectively.

Anyway, I just felt like writing about that. Having only played 8/16 bit shmups, all these bullet hells once seemed impossible to me--especially Cave's games... but now they're the most fun to me. Its a great feeling!