My first time playing Cave's DoDonPachi

[Bananamatic]

I don't care about score, I just want to dodge hard bullet patterns.

That's because you haven't found a game with fun scoring yet

[Barrakketh]

I don't care about score, I just want to dodge hard bullet patterns.

That's because you haven't found a game with fun scoring yet

Ketsui!

[ptoing]

Mushi Futari scoring is pretty fun as well imo. Nicely uncomplicated.
Ketsui too. Also I find the scoring system in Dangun Feveron pretty nice, very simple and to the point.
And Guwange, I really like the scoring there, but the gamelong chain is pain in the ass :/

[Zengeku3]

If you just want bullet patterns, then don't play for score.

I can't score at all in DOJ, I only play it for the patterns. Same with Ketsui.

Exactly. That's what I'm doing now. I love playing for survival because I think bullet hell games are fun. I believe that the more you get a game memorized, the less fun it will be. Some people will love playing for score and will find the chaining score system to be very entertaining and a great challenge. That's fine. I'll do something else and just play for survival since I prefer improvisation instead of memorization although I don't mind a bit of memorization to learn the game, just not too much.

I would care for score if someone would make a score system that puts a larger emphasis on the dodging skill of the player rather than the player's patience and interest in memorizing complex routes through rather long stages where a single mistake will cost you very dearly in your score. A mistake as simple as killing a wave of enemies too fast. That shouldn't cost you your entire stage chain. Instead, look at a game like Mountain of Faith. That has some proper scoring. I think Cave games in many ways are very excellent but their scoring is way too much about memorization when an equally rewarding system could be made without enforcing a strict path the player must follow.

[/quote]

I don't care about score, I just want to dodge hard bullet patterns.

That's because you haven't found a game with fun scoring yet

Oh, I have. They are rare though...

I don't care about score, I just want to dodge hard bullet patterns.

That's because you haven't found a game with fun scoring yet

Ketsui!

Ketsui is probably my favorite score system from Cave (although Mushi might steal that once I get more into how that works.)
Unlike DOJ, it doesn't feel as bitchy and feels like a legitimate way of making the game harder to score points. I can much better understand that than some chaining BS.

I actually find myself unconsciously trying to score better in Ketsui since the risk reward mechanics are １０億 better than in DDP IMO.

[ptoing]

(although Mushi might steal that once I get more into how that works.)

Do you mean Futari? Because the first Mushihimesama has one of the weirdest scoring systems ever IMO and I (and many people I know) never really got anywhere with it.

[Deca]

I would care for score if someone would make a score system that puts a larger emphasis on the dodging skill of the player rather than the player's patience and interest in memorizing complex routes through rather long stages where a single mistake will cost you very dearly in your score.

Try Batrider. Not sure how open Bakraid actually is when you get down to it, but that scoring system might appeal to you as well. Also ESPGaluda2.

[Gus]

I would care for score if someone would make a score system that puts a larger emphasis on the dodging skill of the player rather than the player's patience and interest in memorizing complex routes through rather long stages where a single mistake will cost you very dearly in your score.

Try Batrider. Not sure how open Bakraid actually is when you get down to it, but that scoring system might appeal to you as well. Also ESPGaluda2.

Futari 1.5 Ultra scoring is probably the best example I've seen of that kind of scoring. It's very simple and intuitive but at the same time it can be very difficult to stay alive during the stages to keep your stage counter high and pulling off some of the big bullet cancels. Too bad nobody plays it.

[Erppo]

I think Cave games in many ways are very excellent but their scoring is way too much about memorization when an equally rewarding system could be made without enforcing a strict path the player must follow.

How? The DDP-style chaining is a very unique challenge that simply would not be possible without the prerequisite of learning the stages.

[Bananamatic]

What I don't like about Cave scoring is the half-second precision required

[Kollision]

I don't care about score, I just want to dodge hard bullet patterns.

That's because you haven't found a game with fun scoring yet

Go play Mars Matrix.

Now!

[Bananamatic]

Go play Mars Matrix.

Now!

I for one like BGM in my games

[Zengeku3]

What I don't like about Cave scoring is the half-second precision required

I agree so much with you on that.

I think Cave games in many ways are very excellent but their scoring is way too much about memorization when an equally rewarding system could be made without enforcing a strict path the player must follow.

How? The DDP-style chaining is a very unique challenge that simply would not be possible without the prerequisite of learning the stages.

An equally rewarding system. Not a similar one.

(although Mushi might steal that once I get more into how that works.)

Do you mean Futari? Because the first Mushihimesama has one of the weirdest scoring systems ever IMO and I (and many people I know) never really got anywhere with it.

Ah, yes. I mean Futari. Futari Original looks like some seriously fun scoring honestly. At least your multiplier isn't dropped back to zero if you kill an enemy in the wrong way.

Go play Mars Matrix.

Now!

I for one like BGM in my games

Me too. A good BGM is almost mandatory for a shmup. How about visuals? Am I the only one who is completely turned off if the graphics are bland?

[Kollision]

Go play Mars Matrix.

Now!

I for one like BGM in my games

You know, I was just like you, I hated the music in the game.
And I don't know how to explain, but after a while it grew on me and today I really appreciate MM's soundtrack.

[NzzpNzzp]

Well... I still play Touhou games

How about visuals? Am I the only one who is completely turned off if the graphics are bland?

These two statements don't match up.

[RNGmaster]

Mushi Futari scoring is pretty fun as well imo. Nicely uncomplicated.
Ketsui too. Also I find the scoring system in Dangun Feveron pretty nice, very simple and to the point.
And Guwange, I really like the scoring there, but the gamelong chain is pain in the ass :/

Dragon Blaze. It's point blanking for people with huge balls. Great scoring.

[Zengeku3]

Well... I still play Touhou games

How about visuals? Am I the only one who is completely turned off if the graphics are bland?

These two statements don't match up.

Bland as in goddammit Progear there exists other colors than blue!
Or bland as in Battle Garegga.

DoDonPachi and Ketsui and all that tend to use only one color of bullets yes, but their backgrounds and sprites are nicely detailed and their bullet patterns look impressive and dangerous. It really helps engaging me in the game much more than shmups like Psikyo games that has yet to show me an interesting bullet pattern. Sure they are hard but it looks bland. And sounds bland now that we are at it.

[NzzpNzzp]

I woulda thought Progear/Garegga/Psikyo games would be a lot more visually engaging than Touhous are because of the whole having backgrounds/more than two enemy sprites, but okay!

[Estebang]

Go play Mars Matrix.

Now!

I for one like BGM in my games

That's why there's the Dreamcast version.

[Zengeku3]

I woulda thought Progear/Garegga/Psikyo games would be a lot more visually engaging than Touhous are because of the whole having backgrounds/more than two enemy sprites, but okay!

To be honest, Touhou's backgrounds and enemy types are bland as fuck, I'll give you that. What I meant was that it has colorful and varied bullet patterns and I think its bullet sprites look better than Cave's bullet sprites in most of their older games.

[Deca]

It really helps engaging me in the game much more than shmups like Psikyo games that has yet to show me an interesting bullet pattern. Sure they are hard but it looks bland. And sounds bland now that we are at it.

I feel that Psikyo pretty much epitomizes Substance over Style. I think that's a big part of why the games don't appeal to players just getting into the genre.

[Zengeku3]

While better games epitomizes Substance AND Style.

There is also something about controls that makes Psikyo games more inaccessible. Seriously, I bet 90% of the patterns in Dragon Blaze would be easy to dodge in a Touhou game. That little option of holding down the shift button when you want to make precise dodging. That really does a lot for a shmups entertainment value imo.

[Bananamatic]

While better games epitomizes Substance AND Style.

There is also something about controls that makes Psikyo games more inaccessible. Seriously, I bet 90% of the patterns in Dragon Blaze would be easy to dodge in a Touhou game. That little option of holding down the shift button when you want to make precise dodging. That really does a lot for a shmups entertainment value imo.

fyi higher rank dragon blaze is so fast that you would be just playing no focus anyways

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

While better games epitomizes Substance AND Style.

There is also something about controls that makes Psikyo games more inaccessible. Seriously, I bet 90% of the patterns in Dragon Blaze would be easy to dodge in a Touhou game. That little option of holding down the shift button when you want to make precise dodging. That really does a lot for a shmups entertainment value imo.

Do we really need to hear how much every other shmup can be improved by adding Touhou fundamentals to it? you already have it written down on your sig. You're so narrow minded it's actually offending me.

[Bananamatic]

And Darius Gaiden would stop kicking my ass if I had a nanopixel hitbox like in mushi

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Welcome to the school of old. Stay as long as you please. Also, check out the other Darius games too.

[Bananamatic]

I played it only for the music

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

All the more reason for you to try the others then: Gaiden's OST is one of the weaker ones.

[Zengeku3]

Do we really need to hear how much every other shmup can be improved by adding Touhou fundamentals to it? you already have it written down on your sig. You're so narrow minded it's actually offending me.

Fuck yeah man. DoDonPachi would be so much more awesome if your ship was wearing a dress. Oh and replace the Colonel with a loli. Oh and screw awesome boss themes. I'd much rather listen to classy midi-trumpets causing everyone in the house to go crazy every day.

Come to think of it, how can Hibachi survive without a hat? And why is DoDonPachi not fixated on safespotting and bomb-spamming? There is call for some serious maintenance work here.

Seriously though. Call me narrow-minded how much you want. I'm sure your old-school shmups are just fine. I'm just satisfied with my bullet hell games. They are what I find fun and interesting.

While better games epitomizes Substance AND Style.
fyi higher rank dragon blaze is so fast that you would be just playing no focus anyways

I'd be out of focus when I need to. I just don't like dying to things that looks easy to dodge but isn't because your ship is too fast. I'd say that Sakuya in PCB controls like a dream in comparison.

[Erppo]

And why is DoDonPachi not fixated on safespotting and bomb-spamming? There is call for some serious maintenance work here.

DDP also happens to give you a shitton of bombs to spam everywhere but hey! And if you accept score exists then you can't freely bomb in either (when you use the bombs as a scoring resource you can't use them for lifesaving) but hey again!

I'd be out of focus when I need to. I just don't like dying to things that looks easy to dodge but isn't because your ship is too fast. I'd say that Sakuya in PCB controls like a dream in comparison.

Yeah sure, that's totally the reason DB is hard!

[Bananamatic]

psikyo rank is a rape train with no brakes