Too close for comfort? the revival?

[Siren2011]

-FBI WARNING-

YOU WOULDN'T WEAR YOUR GIRLFRIEND'S PANTIES WITHOUT ASKING FIRST.

YOU WOULDN'T TAKE ALL THE FREE SAMPLES AT A GROCERY STORE.

YOU WOULDN'T CUT OFF YOUR BOSS' ARM AND USE IT AS A PAPERWEIGHT.

YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR.

PIRACY.

IS.

STEALING.

LOL, etc.

[Udderdude]

[Jockel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

[Dave_K.]

One of the perks of not pirating stuff is that cash limitations make you elect the creme of the crop. I love my record collection for being a real diary of my musical tastes and pahases. Friends of mine who pirate music have harddrives full of more crap they don't care for than music they love.

This.

[captpain]

buying things creates good taste. this is science, people.

[IseeThings]

(the only exception I make is when an STGT game is MAME only and I don't have access to the PCB, that I make a very guilt riddled ROM download that I despise myself for and delete at the end of the week)

Seriously? You need to get out more. There couldn't be a more inconsequential thing than emulating Daioh for a week. Literally nobody on Earth but you cares about it by now, considering it was made in 1993 and as far as I can tell none of the involved organizations continue to exist. [edit: Athena? Still, it's a PCB from 18 years ago]

Unless you like to feel guilty, you're just being a weirdo

Damn, I'm a weirdo. I downloaded MAME just so that I could participate this week, and I still felt bad for doing so.

Not so much because someone is losing money, but because I feel like I am not giving the game a fair change without paying for it.

Like spadgy, part of the experience for me is hunting down the game, finally getting it in the mail, opening it, and playing it. When I skip straight to playing it, there was no investment in it, so I just don't find myself caring for it as much.

Its sad, because even awesome games like Batrider just do not appeal to me when I am MAME'ing them. I know that I will enjoy Garegga much much more when it finally arrives.

I think using a computer takes away some of the experience too. Of course, I am a strange fucker, and I wouldn't expect people to see things on the same level as me Some people could just say I am wasting my money.... and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong

Keep in mind that the industry these days basically considers that 2nd Hand Market == Pirating.

If they were to have their way it would be no more legal to buy that Garegga PCB as it would to fire it up on MAME with a copy you downloaded from the internet, because you didn't buy it from them when they were selling it new.

Retarded? Yes. But food for thought and a big reason why a lot of people are turning to piracy anyway. Treat your customers like criminals, and they will become criminals. Push for stupid laws to control the market, and people will take the ones that exist far less seriously.

[dunpeal2064]

Eh, my choce to buy games isn't a legal issue. I just like earning things, it makes me like it more.

And if I don't find it wrth its price, I sell/trade it to try out something else.

Eventually I will have a library only.containing games I really enjoy.

[Siren2011]

Over the years, I've found purchasing a game and downloading a game to give me near identical pleasure. The obi, box, instruction manual, and casing are just icing on an already delicious cake. But are they preferred in order to have a spectacular and unforgettable time? Are they mandatory to have or else the walls of your world will cave in, and you'll lie down in the corner of your room curled up in a fetal position while sucking your thumb? Fuck no.

Relax homies, purge yourself of all guilt. Have a ball.

It should go without saying that every game on that site was made in 2007 or earlier. Will Sega make profit from a JP Panzer Dragoon Saga bought used from some crackhead on Ebay? Definitely not. They only care about what is currently profitable for them. That takes care of the "game studios need your money to stay operational" argument. If it still bothers you, then you're grasping at straws (as well as missing out on hard to find games in limited production such as Dogsday, Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 Perfect Disc, and The New Adventures of the Time Machine.). So you might as well download some good shit.

[jepjepjep]

Eh, my choce to buy games isn't a legal issue. I just like earning things, it makes me like it more.

And if I don't find it wrth its price, I sell/trade it to try out something else.

Eventually I will have a library only.containing games I really enjoy.

I definitely see the value in your approach. It is very reasonable and sensible. But you end up missing out on some really fantastic games that never got ported. For example, Batrider and Esprade. Let's face it. If MAME was not around, people would not play either of these. Sure there are PCBs floating around, but not nearly enough for everyone.

[dunpeal2064]

Eh, my choce to buy games isn't a legal issue. I just like earning things, it makes me like it more.

And if I don't find it wrth its price, I sell/trade it to try out something else.

Eventually I will have a library only.containing games I really enjoy.

I definitely see the value in your approach. It is very reasonable and sensible. But you end up missing out on some really fantastic games that never got ported. For example, Batrider and Esprade. Let's face it. If MAME was not around, people would not play either of these. Sure there are PCBs floating around, but not nearly enough for everyone.

I allow myself a gray area for pcb-only games now. I used to have tons of roms on my xbox, and I would always short-change a game, basically not giving it nearly as much attention as I would if I actually sought out a copy.

plus, console gaming is my nostalgia. I don't like pc gaming. I enjoy Batrider, don't get me wrong. But I was ecstatic to finally get my hands on Garegga for the saturn, and I can't stop playin it! The TATE'd tv is another plus.,Muchnicer thanmy laptop.

I get why people go the dl route, and it makes sense, but its just not for me

[jepjepjep]

plus, console gaming is my nostalgia. I don't like pc gaming. I enjoy Batrider, don't get me wrong. But I was ecstatic to finally get my hands on Garegga for the saturn, and I can't stop playin it! The TATE'd tv is another plus.,Muchnicer thanmy laptop.

I think that's an important point. The actual gaming setup is very important. That's why I dish out hundreds of bucks for PCBs of games that I really love so that I can play them on my cab. Nothing beats original hardware on a nice CRT monitor!

[spadgy]

plus, console gaming is my nostalgia. I don't like pc gaming. I enjoy Batrider, don't get me wrong. But I was ecstatic to finally get my hands on Garegga for the saturn, and I can't stop playin it! The TATE'd tv is another plus.,Muchnicer thanmy laptop.

I think that's an important point. The actual gaming setup is very important. That's why I dish out hundreds of bucks for PCBs of games that I really love so that I can play them on my cab. Nothing beats original hardware on a nice CRT monitor!

Quite right. My MAME setup means playing on a poxy tated laptop propped up on books. So that's part of it for me.

Unless you like to feel guilty, you're just being a weirdo

Can no-one take Spadgy seriously please?

This is a guy who not only flogs himself with barbed wire and cries in the shower after downloading a Mame rom, but when he spends full whack on a PCB he plays it for about two hours before taking it to the local arcade to get it installed so he can spend the next few months paying for credits in an attempt for a clear/high score.

Now that's some fucked up pathological shit right there.

Ha ha! I'm borderline straight edge, so of course I like to feel guilty . My wife takes the piss out of me about it all the bloody time!

Seriously though, part of it might be that I work in the games industry. I genuinely care for the industry I work in and the developers I visit so regularly, so I have this inbuilt (and maybe slightly over exagerated) perspective on piracy and MAME.

And putting my PCB's straight into the arcade is just because I love to contribute to the community/scene.

Also on a serious note; Skykid; did I leave my barbed wire at your house along with the hoodie?

[cools]

plus, console gaming is my nostalgia. I don't like pc gaming. I enjoy Batrider, don't get me wrong. But I was ecstatic to finally get my hands on Garegga for the saturn, and I can't stop playin it! The TATE'd tv is another plus.,Muchnicer thanmy laptop.

I think that's an important point. The actual gaming setup is very important. That's why I dish out hundreds of bucks for PCBs of games that I really love so that I can play them on my cab. Nothing beats original hardware on a nice CRT monitor!

This.

[power UP]

Hey, unemployed ratio. Come up with a counter-argument which isn't "well, something similar happened ages ago and isn't applicable any more, therefore doing something similar is also perfectly ok!" and I'll look into it.

That wasn't what I was saying uh what

By the way, Germany pirates everything to hell and back, it's no surprise they have a running trend of having absolutely no standards.

Now this is just down right offensive.

Pulling a godwin's law nullifies the whole point. had he not used Reductio ad Hitlerum to make the point that Elixir's viewpoint was fucking dumb (which it still is no matter how he may sit on his high horse and deny it), there would be no quarrel and the point would have been easily made without that lack of context ruining the point he was making.

It might be poor form, but if he can't see the error in his argument with this, then why should I waste my time on writing it out differently, clearly he is too stupid to understand it either way.

[Jockel]

By the way, Germany pirates everything to hell and back, it's no surprise they have a running trend of having absolutely no standards.

Now this is just down right offensive.

No it's just making up random stereotypes on the spot.
Oh hey guys, New Zealand consists only of fat neckbearded weeabos.

[Aconcit]

Black people can't hear F#.

[RNGmaster]

Koreans are congenitally incapable of orgasm unless they touch a keyboard during the sex act.

[dan76]

buying things creates good taste. this is science, people.

I hear the sound of thousands of marketing men laughing and rubbing their hands together.

EDIT: read that out of context (flipped back through a few pages of squabbling...) - Nice!

[Bee Cool]

"Money isn't everything" is a poor person's excuse to enjoy life. They're too lazy to get off their ass and earn their money, they'd rather just sit there and vegetate for the rest of their lives

I don't believe I have heard a statement this arrogant in a long time. If you actually think having tons of money is the key to any and all happiness in your life, and that people who have fun without money are somehow deceiving themselves I sincerely pity you.

Let me tell you a story, my grandparents were immigrants from Europe they came from poor farm families, hoping they could make a life in the United States. Up until their 60's they worked their asses off doing the best they could with such a low amount of education and managed to get my father through college and start a life for himself. My grandparents never had a lot of money, but they were the some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure to know. My grandmother would say "money isn't everything" and she is fucking right, they lived a pleasant life, saw their children grow up and raise their own families, and left a lasting impact on the entirety of my family despite being poor. So when you sit behind your computer just acting like people who don't hold money on the same pedestal you do are misguided or lazy, is simply ignorant beyond comprehension.

I think you need to look at yourself a bit, and figure out why your world view is so painfully showing of your inexperience with the real world.

[jepjepjep]

"Money isn't everything" is a poor person's excuse to enjoy life. They're too lazy to get off their ass and earn their money, they'd rather just sit there and vegetate for the rest of their lives

I don't believe I have heard a statement this arrogant in a long time. If you actually think having tons of money is the key to any and all happiness in your life, and that people who have fun without money are somehow deceiving themselves I sincerely pity you.

Let me tell you a story, my grandparents were immigrants from Europe they came from poor farm families, hoping they could make some a life in the United States. Up until their 60's they worked their asses off doing the best they could with such a low amount of education and managed to get my father through college and start a life for himself. My grandparents never had a lot of money, but they were the some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure to know. My grandmother would say "money isn't everything" and she is fucking right, they lived a pleasant life, saw their children grow up and raise their own families, and left a lasting impact on the entirety of my family despite being poor. So when you sit behind your computer just acting like people who don't hold money on the same pedestal you do is simply ignorant beyond comprehension.

I think you need to look at yourself a bit, and figure out why your world view is so painfully showing of your inexperience with the real world.

+1

I'd also like to add that it is very misguided to think that laziness and poverty are synonymous. Societies everywhere are propped up by hardworking lower and middle-class people. The old adage, "It's not what you know but who you know" is very true. Prime example 1: Do you really think George Bush Jr. has worked hard his whole life to achieve his success? Do you think that he has worked harder than an immigrant farm worker?

[Siren2011]

Americans are allergic to getting killed. Tissues were used like Christina Aguilera's body during Pearl Harbor.

Every single Russian criminal can't detonate bombs without bathing first, or else bombs detonate Russian criminal.

Chinese people inherit their slant eyes from their dragon ancestors.

Dragons loved to fuck dogs.

Koreans love to eat dogs.

Iranian women have made it customary to get tattoos of Ben Affleck on their necks. If Ahmadinejad knew, he would finish their tattoos by adding "isn't anywhere near as sexy as Ahmadinejad. Whoever tells you otherwise is a homosexual." Hence the need to hide it with excessive clothing.

[Sumez]

I can't believe paying money for something is being regarded as one big marketing scam deployed by evil capitalists.

Only om shmups.system11.org do you see people ridiculed for wanting to pay money for something that took several people a long time to develop on a full time salary.
Making video games is a real job, people.

I see why old second hand arcade games only released in different regions is a "grey area", but that's a different subject than what's being touched now.


I'm probably more anti-capitalistic than most people here, but I also believe in a working society.

As for the stereotype on German software pirates, same can be said about most of Scandinavia. I'm actually surprised to hear it's that bad in Germany.

[Ex-Cyber]

I'm all for paying game developers, but I don't see any good reason to do it on the basis of individual copies/licenses. The mechanism of payment should be centered on paying for the work involved in creating the game, not on the acts of distributing or playing the game (which have no real connection to the author(s)). This is not a new idea, it's just that copyright is so goddamned old and entrenched in industry that people aren't inclined to imagine anything else.

[emphatic]

Only om shmups.system11.org

I'm actually surprised to hear it's that bad in Germany.

[Zeron]

Seriously what the hell is this thread even about?

[bcass]

I'm all for paying game developers, but I don't see any good reason to do it on the basis of individual copies/licenses. The mechanism of payment should be centered on paying for the work involved in creating the game, not on the acts of distributing or playing the game (which have no real connection to the author(s)). This is not a new idea, it's just that copyright is so goddamned old and entrenched in industry that people aren't inclined to imagine anything else.

Definitely. The sooner we can ditch this antiquated dev > publisher > end-user model and start seeing more money going to developers/artists the better. Things like the iOS app store show the way forward. Publishers hold far too much sway in this industry and it's stifling creativity.

[alastair jack]

I liked it when this thread was about Demul news.

[Drum]

I'm all for paying game developers, but I don't see any good reason to do it on the basis of individual copies/licenses. The mechanism of payment should be centered on paying for the work involved in creating the game, not on the acts of distributing or playing the game (which have no real connection to the author(s)). This is not a new idea, it's just that copyright is so goddamned old and entrenched in industry that people aren't inclined to imagine anything else.

I can get pretty tedious when I'm railing against piracy, but I agree with this (with reservations - not 100% sure what you're getting at with the individual licenses vs paying for the work done thing)

[Sumez]

Things like the iOS app store show the way forward. Publishers hold far too much sway in this industry and it's stifling creativity.

Yeah cause app store is so filled with quality products not just created to make easy money!
And the best part is, there's no single company (like, say, Apple) making millions on everyone being forced to sell their products through the same channel if they want to target the currently most popular mobile platform.

[Frederik]

I liked it when this thread was about Demul news.

Yeah. Me too.