bloodflowers wrote:The reason this debate is even happening is because people who have no foundation in the classic years, are attempting to redefine what we old people /know/ a shmup is instinctively. You can't blame them for this, but theyre attempting to define the genre by what they grew up with.
Then you should be annoyed that as things are now, you aren't allowed to vote Tempest as one of 25 best shmups. You /know/ it is by instinct, why don't you try to convince the others as well, instead of saying definitions are a waste? Fight for what you believe in!
bloodflowers wrote:The trick is - we don't /NEED/ to define them if everyone just uses their common sense. This could be avoided in future by not explicity banning anything at all, and the person counting the results (or people for a fairer attempt), simply discounting games that common sense dictate don't belong. It's never going to be a precise science anyway.
A final thought. What is a tree? There are hundreds of types of tree, yet they are all still trees. A Bonsai tree is still a tree too. Where does a large bush end and a tree begin? Obvious madness, but that's what's going on here.
bloodflowers... I think you're wrong. You posted a lot trying to explain that the search of a definition is futile. In your opinion, a shmup is easily recognized by anyone who has enough experience, thanks to "common sense".
Now, common sense tells you Tempest is a shmup, but you can't even start to explain why... You don't have to, there's "common sense".
Now, that's exactly why some people think a definition is important. I agree with you it's not a matter of precise science, but why don't even give it a try, huh? Besides, if you or Herr Schatten think writing about this topic is a total waste, why you do?
The funny fact is, I don't want to be the defender of science, reason and definitions. I was just pointing out that,
according to the actual definition, to have Galaga "in" and Gyruss "out" is weird.
Besides, the common sense is not so common, as reading this thread suggests.