Too close for comfort? the revival?

[captpain]

I will play Ibara with proper graphics nonstop until I clear it.

[yosai]

I'll bitch on the shmups forum that the emulation isn't quite 100%.

[JJXB]

Or you could just ignore reviews and opt for the live streams, videos, screenshots, game trials, hiring and screenshots to form your own opinion of the game before purchasing. You know, those things that you've been discrediting? You seem to think that all reviews are paid for, which is not true. I mean, a lot of them are, but you're bound to get more out of them than "it's shit" from someone on 4chan. And it's not like you're forced to take either method.

I don't take all reviews as "paid for", I simply take the stance that opinions are just that and not something to base your own off of. and while videos/livestreams and stuff might have something over reviews in that way, they lack the interactivity element that is vital in making a decision. trials I already easily discredited but to reiterate: most trials are stunted or boosted in such a way that they do not let the game speak for itself. and then there's the fact that some might be based off of BETA builds thus being non-representative of the final product. and as for "hiring" (i think you meant renting), you are suggesting I pay to try a game before i spend money on it. see the contradiction in intentions there?

OK, few problems with this. First of all, you couldn't use this argument as proof, because there are no contradictions here. Secondly, you're now restricting yourself to reviews, as if no other medium exists. There are no opinions vs. opinions, because my "opinion" is a fact: piracy is illegal and unjustifiable. My opinion can be disregarded, but the fact still remains. Your opinion is otherwise, and just like I said in my original post: sugarcoating.

See how far your "isn't always a bad thing" gets you in court.

Import tax sucks, but it's not at all the developer's fault, so why they should be punished for something out of their control? I'm not a corporate mouth and I'm not trying to suck up to any corporation out there, but seriously. Things like "living in a PAL region", import tax, and any other reasons ("it's not in my language/it's region-locked/it's not being localized") are only reasons that would fuel an entitlement complex. The thing is though, you're not out of options, and it's not like the previous generation where you're forced to mod your console to play overseas material. PS3's region-free, a JP 360 is an excellent investment, and the PSP and DS are also both regionless.

Maybe the previous generations and restrictions like these are what drew you into pirating to begin with? After all, you did say it was DOJ.

...the contradiction is in how we morally see things. and as for reviews only, i stopped mentioning the other elements because I already got those out of the way. MULTIPLE TIMES. and your opinion is fact? wait what? unless you base your moral outlook on the law itself (which is just as retarded as using the bible as a moral code) then your opinion is not fact since the actual legality was never at question here (namely that yes by the law piracy is illegal). what was being questioned was how YOU saw things, not the law. and now you open up the pandora's box of "is the law always right?" because by you equating your moral code as the same as the law, you are now posing that question. and the answer? a simple NO. if you say otherwise then you risk pissing a lot of people off because then you 100% validate some of the most retarded general law decisions in recent history. either way, the law, just like the bible, cannot be held as a moral standard in any way shape or form, unlike what you seem to imply at the very least. and I know that argument wouldn't get me anywhere in court but you know what? this isn't court and it isn't a debate on the legality of this shit.

and you think me getting a j360 is a valid solution on somewhat limited income AND with import tax? you are fucking joking me right? I will not import. I am refusing to pay a "punishment tax" because if I buy a japanese game I do not expect to be punished for buying something I could pirate. I refuse to import on that principle. and yes, while most other consoles are region free, that still does not account for the import tax shit.

and how is cave or anyone else getting punished when I pirate? sales are not lost in piracy since no money is involved in any way shape or form and in order to lose money there has to be money involved in the first place. you want to talk about lost sales? look at the used games industry since money is being exchanged there. "oh but that's legal" won't cut it because it still means lost sales for the publisher/developer. either way, this is getting nowhere since you insist on taking the 4chan "moralfag" approach while I am at least trying to separate morality from law when this sort of argument is bought up.

you seem not to be and instead use the "morality and law are the same" approach to this argument. yes I know it is a legal offense in most countries over the world but using the law as a moral code is a flawed and stupid way of seeing things as it can penalize even the most innocent of people (a grandmother whose internet connection was hacked and used to pirate music is facing a 6k euro fine) while also simultaneously letting the most depraved people go free at times (casey anthony. that's all i have to say).
If you were counting piracy as wrong morally as a separate belief from the law I might not be so harsh on this point but when you said

my "opinion" is a fact: piracy is illegal and unjustifiable

it cemented that the law and your opinion weren't exactly mutually exclusive. something that isn't exactly a good thing considering how much the law errs and fucks up.

either way this is fruitless since i know that you'll keep up your facade of "piracy harms everything!" even though it is not true. read this for example. if piracy was such a harm, how come iTunes biggest customers also pirated music beforehand? infact I know that many studies have shown that piracy has BENEFITED many artists of any kind including music, art, and games. and you know what, the industries who rely on the anti-piracy bullshit just don't realize that they are killing themselves with their response to piracy.

[Zorator]

Yeah I knew links would be out of the question. I'm more worried about whether we can talk about firsthand experiences with the program. It will be public in a few months anyway so I don't see why not?

Either way, in the interest of getting this thread back on track, what do we know about compatibility and sound? The only games that I know work as of the WIP version are Ibara and the first Mushi. In the earlier pages of this thread there was some back and fourth about whether or not sound will work in the final version. Can anyone speak to that with any degree of certainty? Would it be out of character for the Demul devs to release the latest version without any sound functionality for the new batch of games?

[Bananamatic]

Ibara

finally
I can't wait to be a useless piece of shit all day and control all this rank

[Zorator]

Why don't you just go make a thread where you tell us every shmup and franchise you hate and why and then we can carry on a discussion here and ignore it

[ncp]

Why don't you just go make a thread where you tell us every shmup and franchise you hate and why and then we can carry on a discussion here and ignore it

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sweetbroandhellajeff/

[Udderdude]

[Zorator]

Why don't you just go make a thread where you tell us every shmup and franchise you hate and why and then we can carry on a discussion here and ignore it

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/sweetbroandhellajeff/

Hmmm. I want to say that helps me understand his post more, but now I'm even more confused. Still, this shit is easily 10x better than just about every video game centric webcomic I've seen just for that Electric Retard-esque appeal.

[Bananamatic]

^beat me to it

anyways

make it buyable here and I'll buy it without "trial pirating"

make me pay 2x as much in an import store along with taxes and I'll rather pirate it - half of the money I'd spend on the imports doesn't even go to the company/person who made it

[JOW]

Tell me then how all the people on this forum whould've gotten into the genre. You know that most of them got into it with MAME.

Don't under estimate the number of old bastards on this forum that got 'into the genre' long before MAME was even a twinkle in a pirate's eye.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

My eyes are not used to gifs this size...

[Bananamatic]

I played gradius on a bootleg nes back in 2000

I got to stage 2 maybe 3 times

[power UP]

Being a Jew was illegal and unjustifiable in Germany at one point. T's a fact, not opinion.

[JJXB]

Being a Jew was illegal and unjustifiable in Germany at one point. T's a fact, not opinion.

...you just had to pull a godwin's law.

[mjclark]

Yeah I knew links would be out of the question. I'm more worried about whether we can talk about firsthand experiences with the program. It will be public in a few months anyway so I don't see why not?

Either way, in the interest of getting this thread back on track, what do we know about compatibility and sound? The only games that I know work as of the WIP version are Ibara and the first Mushi. In the earlier pages of this thread there was some back and fourth about whether or not sound will work in the final version. Can anyone speak to that with any degree of certainty? Would it be out of character for the Demul devs to release the latest version without any sound functionality for the new batch of games?

The Russian Demul devs have their own forum and say sound is fixed. There were also some YouTube vids of a few other games working with sound but I'm having so much fun in this thread that I've forgotten which ones they were

[Elixir]

I don't take all reviews as "paid for", I simply take the stance that opinions are just that and not something to base your own off of. and while videos/livestreams and stuff might have something over reviews in that way, they lack the interactivity element that is vital in making a decision. trials I already easily discredited but to reiterate: most trials are stunted or boosted in such a way that they do not let the game speak for itself. and then there's the fact that some might be based off of BETA builds thus being non-representative of the final product. and as for "hiring" (i think you meant renting), you are suggesting I pay to try a game before i spend money on it. see the contradiction in intentions there?

But you really don't need the interactivity part of streams and videos in order to judge a purchase, just envision yourself playing them. And I meant "hiring". If you're that stingy, you might as well just watch someone play through the entire game. And while demo quality varies, their existence is to give you the gist of the game. Your stance of demos not being the final representation of the product is so fucking grasping at straws, the point of demos positioned further into the game (ie. Tales of Vesperia) is to make you want to purchase and reach that point. Basically you have an excuse for everything.

But you're disregarding the option of hiring games out, simply because you can't hire out imports, and,

limited income

This is the core underlying reason behind your entire justification for piracy. You seem to think import tax is punishment, which is also wrong; it's not some shmup developer's fault that you live in a taxed country. If I was in your situation, I'd probably pirate games too.

[BeruBeru]

They also had futari1.5, ibara black label, galuda 2 and deathsmiles

[BPzeBanshee]

Yeah I knew links would be out of the question. I'm more worried about whether we can talk about firsthand experiences with the program. It will be public in a few months anyway so I don't see why not?

Either way, in the interest of getting this thread back on track, what do we know about compatibility and sound? The only games that I know work as of the WIP version are Ibara and the first Mushi. In the earlier pages of this thread there was some back and fourth about whether or not sound will work in the final version. Can anyone speak to that with any degree of certainty? Would it be out of character for the Demul devs to release the latest version without any sound functionality for the new batch of games?

The Russian Demul devs have their own forum and say sound is fixed. There were also some YouTube vids of a few other games working with sound but I'm having so much fun in this thread that I've forgotten which ones they were

The last and best demonstrating vid of Demul at work was Futari 1.5 working with sound and next to no emulated lag.

[moozooh]

Demul status based on the dev version from about two months ago, and Mushihimesama as the test subject:

1) sound is working very well;
2) slowdown is missing at various points.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

If CAVE started releasing their 360 backlog here in the UK (DOJBLEX, KEX, ESPGalII etc) I would legitimately buy them. but if they remain import only then I will not buy because I am not willing to be penalized for trying to obtain a legitimate copy of the game.
And don't give me this bollocks of "but gifts don't get import taxed" because from what I gather, even things marked as "Gifts" are taxed if reason is found.

Since you are appear to be from the UK as I am you really should consider importing Futari and Galuda 2 considering the games are so cheap. If its import tax youre worrying about its worth noting that not every item is charged it, I have imported all 3 of Caves RF titles which all of them have slipped past UK customs with no extra charges.

I myself pirate doujins and emulate old roms. (I am on the anti demul side though) and I can also understand the argument for pirating PC games just to see if the thing works on your PC if there is no demo. But at the end of the day all piracy is wrong no matter how much ppl try to justify it. To do so displays an air of entitlement

[mjclark]

But at the end of the day all piracy is wrong no matter how much ppl try to justify it. To do so displays an air of entitlement

[Udderdude]

CAVE is a helluva drug.

[Ex-Cyber]

But at the end of the day all piracy is wrong no matter how much ppl try to justify it. To do so displays an air of entitlement

What's an "entitlement" and what's simply normal is very much a matter of perspective. If you start from classical property and privacy rights and drop in modern network technology, copyright would look like a quite bizarre form of privilege. It pretty much only enjoys widespread acceptance because of its age.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Being a Jew was illegal and unjustifiable in Germany at one point. T's a fact, not opinion.

...you just had to pull a godwin's law.
*snip*

What? He simply used Elixir's questionable way of thinking in another context in which it would clearly lead to counter-intuitive results, thereby showing that it is in no way as unproblematic as Elixir makes it out to be. If you want to stress how deficient another person's approach is, it's perfectly acceptable to use as crass situations as possible, thereby showing what unacceptable results a particular way of thinking can have. You could accuse power UP of using a very clicheed approach, but since this isn't some kind of elite literary messageboard I don't see where the problem is.

[Elixir]

Being a Jew was illegal and unjustifiable in Germany at one point. T's a fact, not opinion.

...you just had to pull a godwin's law.
*snip*

What? He simply used Elixir's questionable way of thinking in another context in which it would clearly lead to counter-intuitive results, thereby showing that it is in no way as unproblematic as Elixir makes it out to be. If you want to stress how deficient another person's approach is, it's perfectly acceptable to use as crass situations as possible, thereby showing what unacceptable results a particular way of thinking can have. You could accuse power UP of using a very clicheed approach, but since this isn't some kind of elite literary messageboard I don't see where the problem is.

Why does this entire post reek of "I want to fit in so I'll type big words and pretend to look cool"?

Hey, unemployed ratio. Come up with a counter-argument which isn't "well, something similar happened ages ago and isn't applicable any more, therefore doing something similar is also perfectly ok!" and I'll look into it. By the way, Germany pirates everything to hell and back, it's no surprise they have a running trend of having absolutely no standards.

[Bananamatic]

germany made shamwows

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Why does this entire post reek of "I want to fit in so I'll type big words and pretend to look cool"?

Hey, unemployed ratio. Come up with a counter-argument which isn't "well, something similar happened ages ago and isn't applicable any more, therefore doing something similar is also perfectly ok!" and I'll look into it. By the way, Germany pirates everything to hell and back, it's no surprise they have a running trend of having absolutely no standards.

Ahahaha... hahahha
keep ranting and ignoring all the perfectly valid arguments that are already there man. You're fucking hilarious.

[JJXB]

What? He simply used Elixir's questionable way of thinking in another context in which it would clearly lead to counter-intuitive results, thereby showing that it is in no way as unproblematic as Elixir makes it out to be. If you want to stress how deficient another person's approach is, it's perfectly acceptable to use as crass situations as possible, thereby showing what unacceptable results a particular way of thinking can have. You could accuse power UP of using a very clicheed approach, but since this isn't some kind of elite literary messageboard I don't see where the problem is.

Pulling a godwin's law nullifies the whole point. had he not used Reductio ad Hitlerum to make the point that Elixir's viewpoint was fucking dumb (which it still is no matter how he may sit on his high horse and deny it), there would be no quarrel and the point would have been easily made without that lack of context ruining the point he was making.

Why does this entire post reek of "I want to fit in so I'll type big words and pretend to look cool"?

Hey, unemployed ratio. Come up with a counter-argument which isn't "well, something similar happened ages ago and isn't applicable any more, therefore doing something similar is also perfectly ok!" and I'll look into it. By the way, Germany pirates everything to hell and back, it's no surprise they have a running trend of having absolutely no standards.

and as for you? oh wow. while this also reeks of Reducito ad Hitlerum just from the germany comment, your point was never valid in the first place since germany's game problems stem from the fact that they still have a no nazi anything policy in place, a stringent anti-violent video games policy in place and the fact that dumbfucks associated a school shooting with games. so your piracy argument there is a fallacy in itself since if there's such a crackdown on what would be considered "popular game content" due to falsely based paranoia, what else would be allowed to be sold?.

Since you are appear to be from the UK as I am you really should consider importing Futari and Galuda 2 considering the games are so cheap. If its import tax youre worrying about its worth noting that not every item is charged it, I have imported all 3 of Caves RF titles which all of them have slipped past UK customs with no extra charges.

I myself pirate doujins and emulate old roms. (I am on the anti demul side though) and I can also understand the argument for pirating PC games just to see if the thing works on your PC if there is no demo. But at the end of the day all piracy is wrong no matter how much ppl try to justify it. To do so displays an air of entitlement

last time i checked PA, the only copies of espgal2 available weren't region free. and thanks for at least realizing that import taxes are more of a possible worry than an excuse. and thanks for at least giving me more comprehensive info about the import tax to at least try and correct any facts i have wrong about it. and as much as I might disagree with your closing statement in the post, I can respect your tone since you aren't coming off as a ignorant and hardheaded dumbfuck.

[Siren2011]

and as for you? oh wow. while this also reeks of Reducito ad Hitlerum just from the germany comment, your point was never valid in the first place since germany's game problems stem from the fact that they still have a no nazi anything policy in place, a stringent anti-violent video games policy in place and the fact that dumbfucks associated a school shooting with games. so your piracy argument there is a fallacy in itself since if there's such a crackdown on what would be considered "popular game content" due to falsely based paranoia, what else would be allowed to be sold?

Dude, what rock have you been living under? This is retard land; the land where global warming is a hoax; the land where women fuck their husbands' buttholes with a strap-on and the husband takes her last name, cuz he's intimidated by her feminist ramblings; the land where even the worst Wii geamz are better than 1243123423% of geamz out thar just because they are "art"; the land where Elixir is the smartest man in the forum.

His argument has inspired me to download 7 games today, 3 of which were made in the past few months. And. I. Will. Enjoy. The. Fuck. Out. Of. Them.

See, Elixir? Your argument is really doing the world of videogames justice! Congrats! You cunt.

Germany pirates everything to hell and back.

Why does it matter so much to you what other people do? Pirates have this industry by the balls, and there's not a goddamn thing you, or Chuck Norris, or a priest, or your psychiatrist can do about it except sit on your asses, and bitch on your favorite internet watering hole about how "downloading games is WRONG! It's not FAIR to DEVELOPERS" while it falls on deaf ears, most likely faster than it takes for you to reach climax. Keep fighting the good fight. It's high entertainment value for everyone here, especially me.

All tit-for-tats and hilarity aside, it doesn't matter how people get their hands on these games, just that they get them in some way. Anyone who is upset with this is a bitter idiot who insists on imposing his st00pid morals on other people. I don't need "a justification for piracy," retard. Only invest money into shit that I KNOW is going to be great. (Bayonetta wasn't even a rental for me. It was a buy and only a buy because I knew what to expect. A game that sucks is not worth paying for, because the developer quite simply doesn't deserve it.) Why spend precious money on innumerable DS games which could possibly only have THREE games worth playing through? Do you have a witty answer to that? In response to your pathetic comment, "You can watch videos and read reviews before buying, blah blah blah," you are not one to tell anyone what they should and should not do. Understand? Even though that might carry some truth, people can still download games. They don't need to answer to you with a justification of any kind. Let's look at the extreme possibility: so what if the industry crashes because of it? So what? All of the games worth playing have already been released, or don't have any hope of being released in the future. Plus, most gaming studios are following each other's lead in dumbing down the best genres to increase profits. The Golden Age of Games was a fair ship, matey. But she's sinkin' now. Just enjoy the decent into Davy Jones' Locker like the rest of your shipmates.

I know it's a "bad" thing, which is part of the reason why I continue to do it. How's that for "sugarcoating"?

what was being questioned was how YOU saw things, not the law.

Exactly. The poor old bastard can't tell the difference between objectivity and subjectivity (which I am sick to death of explaining the distinction to people, so fuck it. Game over, man.).

See how far your "isn't always a bad thing" gets you in court.

A vengeful little pissant. Nietzsche would have spat in your face for that one had he been alive today. Enjoy your precious slave morals.

I wash my hands clean of this scumbag. Go ahead. Reply with the words of a language that is far too beautiful for your disgusting intellect to utilize.