Cave Games via Digital Distro: Lets Discuss!

supergrafx77 · Post by **supergrafx77** » Thu May 19, 2011 12:53 pm

I could see myself perhaps getting rid of all my physical copies if they become available as dl. Can't stand changing discs when I want to go from this cave to that cave. Plus, I will have probably at least half the money coming back from the sale of the retails for those who prefer box art and scratchy dvd discs as nic nacs to gaze upon. I think this is great of CAVE to be doing for a global take over of the shmup market! Milk sales of retails in Japan/international exporting for a couple months and in doing so establish game's entity as RETAIL, then put it up on Demand to milk whatever international business is left (which is significant).

DMC · Post by **DMC** » Thu May 19, 2011 1:17 pm

Another point is that the second-hand market will be missing, right? I like buying, selling, exchanging old copies with friends. It allows me to purchase games like Espgaluda 2, have a few go's at it, and then sell it for roughly the same price as I bought it. And when I want to buy some game, I can sell another to make up for it. The retail market has its charm in itself imo.

gray117 · Post by **gray117** » Thu May 19, 2011 2:41 pm

DMC wrote:Another point is that the second-hand market will be missing, right? I like buying, selling, exchanging old copies with friends. It allows me to purchase games like Espgaluda 2, have a few go's at it, and then sell it for roughly the same price as I bought it. And when I want to buy some game, I can sell another to make up for it. The retail market has its charm in itself imo.

... true, but what if they were just all just cheaper, and/or there is nothing that prevents download services implementing a friend transfer or buyback system...

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:55 pm

DMC wrote:Another point is that the second-hand market will be missing, right? I like buying, selling, exchanging old copies with friends. It allows me to purchase games like Espgaluda 2, have a few go's at it, and then sell it for roughly the same price as I bought it. And when I want to buy some game, I can sell another to make up for it. The retail market has its charm in itself imo.

This is exactly the number 1 reason why retail has no long term future. The publishers don't make a penny from all those 2nd hand sales. Digital distribution is a dream for them, which is why more and more will follow this path until eventually downloads will constitute the vast majority of sales, just as happened with the evolution of the music market from CD to downloads. It's not a matter of if but when. Sure, they'll be some insignificant resistance from a tiny minority, but the course of events will be dictated by the masses, who on the whole have no problems saving shelf space (and natural resources) in favour of having all their media on a single storage device.

Kaspal · Post by **Kaspal** » Thu May 19, 2011 10:32 pm

if there's still a shadow of doubt of if the game can be downloaded outside the US, i can confirm that you can download it from outside with no problems, and if your console is NTSC-U, it will work with no problems... i just downloaded my copy and its working like a charm.

Since i dont have a japanese console, they can start releasing the other games thru GoD, so i can get them (im drooling already for DFK with ketsuipachi, Ketsui and Shin Akai Katana!!!).... im a happy gamer now! T_T.

Nova250 · Post by **Nova250** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:18 pm

The DOJ and Ketsui 360 ports are 5pb's property, not CAVE's. Don't expect to see them up for sale on GoD anytime soon, if ever. Akai Katana Shin probably won't be on there until next year, at the very least. Do you actually expect them to release it on GoD for 30 bucks in other regions anytime soon?

CAVE will probably go with DFK next, if they feel DS2 sold well enough.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:27 pm

Nova250 wrote:The DOJ and Ketsui 360 ports are 5pb's property, not CAVE's. Don't expect to see them up for sale on GoD anytime soon

I reckon we'll see them both on the Japanese GoD store within the next 12 months (IP locked and region locked). Most Japanese shmups have appeared on the Japanese GoD store 12 months or so after the retail releases. This excludes Cave's games because they seem to be going the budget retail re-release path before GoD.

Nova250 · Post by **Nova250** » Fri May 20, 2011 12:47 am

bcass wrote:I reckon we'll see them both on the Japanese GoD store within the next 12 months (IP locked and region locked). Most Japanese shmups have appeared on the Japanese GoD store 12 months or so after the retail releases.

Sorry, I meant in regions other than Japan. I should have been more precise. 5pb has mentioned before that they didn't care about the non-japanese market. Of course, this could always change, although it's highly unlikely.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri May 20, 2011 1:06 am

Well, they did make Bullet Soul region free, so I guess there's a slim chance they might follow Cave's lead and do foreign GoD releases.

Paro-da · Post by **Paro-da** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:01 am

While I would have loved to have a retail version of DSIIX to go next to my copy of Deathsmiles NA and Futari, I like the fact that I'm getting region locked games released in a timely manner with no lengthy translation/altering delays (at least for DSIIX) for a really reasonable price. I love DDP and no longer have a crt in my room to play PS2 DOJ so i'm hoping for quick ports DOJBLEX and DFK which thanks to this GoD release I now have the possibility of playing in the near future. As much as I dislike DRM, I love the fact I can simply boot my 360 and load up a Cave arcade title directly rather than relying on purchasing a J-360 or emulation.

TrevHead (TVR) · Post by **TrevHead (TVR)** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:14 am

true that... now, i'd like to ask:
is there a legit way to backup your downloaded games? i mean, getting the game AND the license and copy them over a pendrive so that you can then burn them on a DVD or something? cuz, it'd suck if i wanna play this thing 5-10 year down the road and it's not available on the marketplace or something.

Dunno tbh, although im hoping that the likes of Sony, MS & Ninty will continue using the same DD services for the next generation of consoles. Doenst Sony already have such a thing with PSN in that the PS3 and PSP / Go share the same service?

If they decide to pull the plug in years to come I would hope MS, Valve etc will make everything open source and allow users / hackers to create something to allow us to continue playing all our games. Allot of gamers have invested too much money into DD to just allow it all to go up in smoke without a serious shitstorm. Worst case is when companies fold and leave everyone in the shit.

This is exactly the number 1 reason why retail has no long term future. The publishers don't make a penny from all those 2nd hand sales

2nd hand was fine before the likes of Gamestop came along and the stores wernt as greedy with their profit margins. The industry could also turn a blind eye to it in the past when core gaming was still rapidly growing. Nowaday budgets are been squeezed and publishers need to generate more cash from elsewhere, when the next console generation comes along and if theres another leap in graphics even a small one, development costs will rise even further. TBH ild rather they get the money from gamestop rather then the gamers with BS DLC and even crappier games

Aconcit · Post by **Aconcit** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:55 am

I guess this would be the right place to put this:

We're working hard to bring you something really special, so please stay tuned.

http://twitter.com/#!/cave_world_en

mouser · Post by **mouser** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:14 am

I myself don't really mind digital distribution, if the choice is not getting the game at all.

However, I want at least SOME physical proof of ownership. People owning the actual disc have something with a sense of worth, and something of resale value. I think digital buyers should get SOMETHING to balance that. For example....

-Special Picture Packs for my profile avatar on XBLA
-They could mail me an empty game box with the games cover, with special art inside or something, with a download code or something

-A collectible figurine (maybe a figurine of Windia from Deathsmiles IIX?)

Just some ideas....

Also, if Cave is going to keep releasing non-translated games, I think they should at least try to promise some kind of English localization patch for later, that can be flipped in an Options menu. Being the digital era, companies have a lot of freedom with patches.

Marurun · Post by **Marurun** » Fri May 20, 2011 4:22 am

I personally prefer to own the discs for my games. Even moreso when they come with a booklet, a pretty case, and sometimes an OST. It's like a collector's item; something with value; something that can be given to someone else to enjoy later. Now I'm not saying I dislike the DD thing. Of course not, it's rather nice that I'll be able to buy Radiant Silvergun in due time for a whole lot less than having to fork out over $100 for the Saturn game, but if Cave is going to release games for us to download it would be nice if it didn't feel like they're just taking the Japanese game, no translating, no manual(This is something I don't always find in GoD games), and just saying, "Here, folks, the game is for you to buy now." It just feels like they're rushing out the product to gain profit from their loyal fanbase that just wants to play the games instead of trying to polish it more. I could be wrong.

If they were to release more of their older titles as DL games at a reasonable price like Guwange though I'd be okay with that.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Fri May 20, 2011 8:28 am

I don't mind if it's digital.

But yeah, regardless of region, all Games on Demand, and retail PS3 games are rereleased material, which come months or years after their physical releases. I want stuff on release, and usually don't want to wait.

I'm not illiterate in Japanese but people are going to rage over the lack of English support regardless, I just know it. Especially if Akai Katana is released at some point, which has absolutely no Engilsh anywhere. Actually, I'm surprised I haven't heard any "why is this in moonrunes arghhhh" comments.

Aconcit · Post by **Aconcit** » Fri May 20, 2011 4:33 pm

Looks like that announcement was a live show of the history of Cave and a look into the development of Akai Katana. Although the facebook thing was directed towards English speaking fans, so maybe there's something else in it for us? Either way I'm interested in this stream. Maybe someone who's knowledgable in Japanese can translate that post.
http://cave-game.cocolog-nifty.com/

Matskat · Post by **Matskat** » Fri May 20, 2011 9:12 pm

So I'm thinking that either Akai Katana or DFK will be next if Cave continues the GoD progression.

NOTE: If you are in the US or anywhere outside of Nippon AND have set up a JP XBL account, you can download and play the demos for Akai Katana SHin and 5PB's crappy Bullet Soul...FYI

Bullet Soul is shit IMHO...I TRIED to die, but it seems that death is random and bullets just disappear....weird. I figured that 5PB would just rip-off Cave for Bullet Soul....well, they SHOULD have

Akai Katana Shin is ok I guess....I just can;t get 100% with the graphics....maybe it looks better in low-res on a cabinet...anyone played on a cab? is it 4:3 or does it require 16:9 wide?

Anyway here's hoping for DFK sooner than later.....I'm not a huge Ketsui junkie but that would be nice I guess.

OH and whoever mentioned that I neglected ESP Ra.De...good call..I'd LOVE to see it get the Guwange treatment...well a better treatment than Guwange, but the same in spirit...i.e. 800point XBLA release....

Let's keep it going...What's your opinion?

BPzeBanshee · Post by **BPzeBanshee** » Sat May 21, 2011 1:33 am

Matskat wrote: OH and whoever mentioned that I neglected ESP Ra.De...good call..I'd LOVE to see it get the Guwange treatment...well a better treatment than Guwange, but the same in spirit...i.e. 800point XBLA release....

I put it rather crudely in hindsight, but I've said it before on this forum - I'd kill for an ESPRade port on at least as good quality as Guwange. Heaps of people complain about Guwange XBLA due to its wonky TATE support, and that's fair enough, but I have no issues with this. If they can get a proper TATE mode for ESPRade, get the ingame lag just right (whoever did Guwange apparently did a really good job with this in that regard) add a couple of arrange modes in there and XBLA it for 800 points I'd buy it in an instant like I did for Guwange. I suppose if Dangun Feveron is successful they might do ESPRade, and we can see how much they've improved in the XBLA department should Dangun Feveron get released.

Speaking of Dangun Feveron, is there actually anything new in that regard? I pretty much only heard about it when RNGmaster started saying stuff about it in another thread.

RNGmaster · Post by **RNGmaster** » Sat May 21, 2011 1:37 am

I mentioned Dangun? Hell, I've been really skeptical about those rumors myself, since there's been no news from CAVE about it.

TrevHead (TVR) · Post by **TrevHead (TVR)** » Sat May 21, 2011 2:06 am

In that Retrogamer Magazine Cave article, they ask cave about DF on XBLA there response was "lets wait and see how Guwange sells". If there was absolutly no plans whatsoever to bring it to XBLA then Cave would have said so right there and then. However the situation has changed now with DS2X on GOD so who knows whats happening with GW as MS might not even want them to releasing shmups on XBLA anymore if this GOD experiment makes more money then the XBLA one

Hair · Post by **Hair** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:42 am

Most of my PC shmups are "digital distribution" and it doesn't bother me. I back them up and I know I can DL them again later. With a physical disc, if it gets scratched, you are screwed. Especially if it is a rare game, or it happens many years from now. No matter how well you take care of your stuff, discs get scratched.

Digital distribution is actually much better for games you want to make sure you own for a long time. Of course it depends on how long XBL keeps them available, but you can back the games up with a modded Xbox I assume (I don't have one). By the time XBL no longers allows you to re-download your purchased 360 games, I think 360 emulation will be solid.

XBLA and GoD have their flaws (games stay expensive even when old, and no price competition, can't sell the game later), but I love it when a game I love or know I will love comes to GoD first (or soon after the disc release). I hate when I buy a game on disc and then it comes out on GoD. I prefer no swapping and no disc errors. Physical media is on the verge of being obsolete. Do you really need a case to take up space, and a fragile disc? How does a fragile disc give you a sense of permanence? In-game tutorials are better than the common crappy supplied instruction book anyways.

Do you buy music on CD? I still prefer real books to the digital readers though. But in that case the book is the product, not the packaging.
If someone is a "collector", I can see why they want the physical thing. But I am a "gamer". Most people are a bit of both, but I don't care about the ownership of the physical disc at all. I just want to play the game, and DD makes it better, easier, and more reliable.

I did an involuntary happy-dance when I was surprised by DSII on GoD last night. I hope it sells well.

Matskat · Post by **Matskat** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:09 am

Hair wrote: Do you buy music on CD?

See deez, you say? Yer speakin jibberish...slow it down. Sea D's? What ARE you on about, mate!?
I keeps it realz yo...I only get my music two ways...

1. THE INTERTUBES
or
2. 8-Track

If I can't download it for free OR play it in my Gremlin's BOSS stereo unit (on my way to RollerDisco Night at Slim's Skat-e-Lite Roller Emporium, of course) then I don't want it!

Hair wrote: I still prefer real books to the digital readers though. But in that case the book is the product, not the packaging.

I HATE when boxfags try to use the "book" analogy....NO MAN! NO! A book IS the piece of media! At the risk of looking like a Luddite hypocrite (or in defense of accusations of such) I have to say that a book is NOT the same in digital format....YES you can still READ it. For me personally, if a book is worth BUYING then it's worth buying the tree derived version. Software is different - but I sympathize with the "collectors"....if you don't like paying $30 for a downloadable game that you would otherwise never get to play (without significant investment in foreign consoles, the cost importing a game that would cost WAY less if released domestically i.e. $90 for Mushi Futari).A downloadable version of ...yes a GAME who's sole purpose is to be PLAYED - Minus, of course, the plastic case, tree flesh based cover + manual and 50cent disc (that will inevitably get scratched, lost, cracked or be made obsolete)

If retail packaging was meant to be treated as an INTEGRAL PART OF THE GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE and NOT like glorified LABELING or even as a POINT OF SALE ADVERTISEMENT, we'd have game boxes that each are unique pieces of ART, not the standardized, branded & logo'd cases we are accustomed to.
(TANGENT: I really liked the JAP Gamecube game cases though...WHY we changed it for the US I don;t want to know....probably something like: "Well dang it man, it just ain't BIG enough...put that baby-size disc is a BIG DVD case! We got any of those HUGE Sega Saturn jewel cases left?! THOSE were AMERICAN SIZE!")
Cases that get stacked on a shelf, bookend style, with the ARTWORK sandwiched up against the next game...Who really stores their games flat with the cover front facing? All of your games? Liar, no way! I'm not talking about LE's or Collector Editions here, although some of those are downright ridiculous (Pygmy sized Halo Helmet THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN FUGGIN WEAR- I'm lookin' at you!)...

Anyway...woah...got a lil crazy there...yeah $30 for the game minus bullshit, THANKYOUVERYMUCH!

Hair wrote:If someone is a "collector", I can see why they want the physical thing. But I am a "gamer". Most people are a bit of both, but I don't care about the ownership of the physical disc at all. I just want to play the game, and DD makes it better, easier, and more reliable.

See above...
OR do like I do:
I buy PCB's but refuse to pay retarded cash for "full kits" HAHAHAHA $200-300 EXTRA for some pieces of PAPER!?!?!
That's JUST LIKE buying Deathsmiles IIX from GoD then PAYING somebody $150 more for the plastic case!
I just scour the web for 300+dri scans of the kit art and pro-copy that shit....looks good, maybe better...and it's like 17cents per piece....
(The Sheep's World of Arcades site is GREAT for Cave kit stuff...FYI)

Hair wrote: I did an involuntary happy-dance when I was surprised by DSII on GoD last night. I hope it sells well.

Word...I danced in my office at work...like a freak....then bought DSIIX by going around our proxy (xbox.com blocked! Arrg!)
I really hope it sells well...well enough for Cave to put DFK up....the PCB is too bookoo!

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:27 am

Using CAPSLOCK for emphasis MIGHT make you come across as SOME SORT OF WEIRDO.
After all, it's really ANNOYING to READ!

Matskat · Post by **Matskat** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:29 am

Jockel wrote:Using CAPSLOCK for emphasis MIGHT make you come across as SOME SORT OF WEIRDO.
After all, it's really ANNOYING to READ!

Somebody likes their retail games boxed up & pretty!
.....tissue?

Again the rabid misuse of CAPS on the innarwebz has got the daggers aimed at me.....let me defend myself by saying:

WHEN I CAPITALIZE WORDS TO ADD EMPHASIS, IT HELPS TO IMAGINE ME YELLING AND FLAILING MY ARMS LIKE A PREACHER!

If only there were other ways to denote emphasis.....

My apologies to yer eyeballs....

*drama!*

DragonInstall · Post by **DragonInstall** » Sat May 21, 2011 3:31 pm

Matskat I think you need to calm down...

ChainsawGuitarSP · Post by **ChainsawGuitarSP** » Sat May 21, 2011 6:15 pm

Matskat wrote:Again the rabid misuse of CAPS on the innarwebz has got the daggers aimed at me.....let me defend myself by saying:

WHEN I CAPITALIZE WORDS TO ADD EMPHASIS, IT HELPS TO IMAGINE ME YELLING AND FLAILING MY ARMS LIKE A PREACHER!

If only there were other ways to denote emphasis.....

My apologies to yer eyeballs....

*drama!*

TrevHead (TVR) · Post by **TrevHead (TVR)** » Sat May 21, 2011 6:32 pm

Long caffine fuelled work shift I bet

I dont drink the stuff usually but when I do it sends me bonkers aswell

apple arcade · Post by **apple arcade** » Sat May 21, 2011 9:49 pm

bcass wrote: This is exactly the number 1 reason why retail has no long term future. The publishers don't make a penny from all those 2nd hand sales. Digital distribution is a dream for them, which is why more and more will follow this path until eventually downloads will constitute the vast majority of sales, just as happened with the evolution of the music market from CD to downloads. It's not a matter of if but when. Sure, they'll be some insignificant resistance from a tiny minority, but the course of events will be dictated by the masses, who on the whole have no problems saving shelf space (and natural resources) in favour of having all their media on a single storage device.

Yea so what happens in the future when the next console is digital download only? Instead of spending 400+ on importing a system the new argument will be "we'll if you want to play japanese releases move to japan"

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sat May 21, 2011 10:09 pm

Not at all. Just do what people do now - use a VPN to download from foreign online stores.

rockaroller · Post by **rockaroller** » Sat May 21, 2011 11:01 pm

Since I desperately need space and my interest resides only in playing, I fully support the digital distribution and hope Cave releases all their past, present and future games through some means like Games on Demand. It's convenient, reduces the overall costs for both sides and makes games accessible for almost anyone with an internet connection. Simple as that.

shmups.system11.org

Cave Games via Digital Distro: Lets Discuss!

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