(SOUNDS LIKE) No more shmups from Aksys :/

[JoJo]

I made the thread on the RSG forums asking for DDP DFK BL and it seems the staff there have taken WELL on board that they know it's in demand.

Man, sucks about Aksys tho, LOL MORE BLAZBLUE.

[StarCreator]

If they release anything, I'd rather it be Akai Katana Shin than anything else - people who want DFK in English can at least get the iPhone/iPod touch version, and I'm not entirely convinced DFK can do as well as Deathsmiles at retail especially when it's been on the App Store for $10 for almost a year...

[Zeether]

Maybe Cave wants to handle US releases themselves?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Maybe Cave wants to handle US releases themselves?

Only on XBLA but I cant imagine Cave putting any of their current 360 catalog from disc onto XBLA (or even if MS will let them) The only game i see Cave bringing to XBLA is oldest titles and new content which hasnt made it to the 360 yet.

If Cave find themelves unable to sell their games in the US, they could even try Sony.

[Vyxx]

If Cave find themelves unable to sell their games in the US, they could even try Sony.

well you know...ps3... region free
microsoft are dickbags

[drauch]

I keep reading "RSG" in this thread as Radiant Silvergun.

Oh god I was too at first.

[Sumez]

I made the thread on the RSG forums asking for DDP DFK BL and it seems the staff there have taken WELL on board that they know it's in demand.

The thread? There's like 10 threads on the forum about it, as well as a bunch of requests in all of the threads about Deathsmiles and other "what games do you want localized" threads. Also, there are all the threads about Akai Katana and DSIIX.

I think people made their voice rather clear.

And even though they sound positive about DFK (one can only hope), I think Akai Katana is more likely, it will probably be an easier game to adapt to for a western audience.

Only on XBLA but I cant imagine Cave putting any of their current 360 catalog from disc onto XBLA (or even if MS will let them) The only game i see Cave bringing to XBLA is oldest titles and new content which hasnt made it to the 360 yet.

You're definitely right about that. I've never heard of a retail Xbox game that has been re-released on XBLA. They go in the "Games on Demand" section instead which has some heavy region protection through IP address lookup etc. XBLA games are always worldwide, localized releases, there has not been any exceptions to this ever, so it's not like Cave would be able to release a XBLA port of, say, Ketsui in only USA and Europe.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

... I'd hope this'll push them into the $15 downloadable market, but I suppose that's a different kettle of fish altogether.

Yes because it's hard to prove they would sell that many more via download to make up for the loss in revenue. I'm not sure that many casual folks find a 5 stage shooter worth $10, let alone $15. Also, if they went XBLA they would require demos, which certainly is the weakest point for a Cave game. Could you imagine trying to sell someone on how awesome Futari is with the first stage alone?

I was sold on it after watching a video of the first level (specifically, the 1st stage boss and the music while you fight him).

[agustusx]

I was sold on it after watching a video of the first level (specifically, the 1st stage boss and the music while you fight him).

I was really talking about more mainstream consumers, people who wouldn't visit a forum dedicated to shooting games. They have the numbers, not us. So I still feel that it would be difficult if not impossible to get them to buy a game they played the first level of for free. They will say "i played 1/5th of the game, why buy?"

[dunpeal2064]

I was sold on it after watching a video of the first level (specifically, the 1st stage boss and the music while you fight him).

I was really talking about more mainstream consumers, people who wouldn't visit a forum dedicated to shooting games. They have the numbers, not us. So I still feel that it would be difficult if not impossible to get them to buy a game they played the first level of for free. They will say "i played 1/5th of the game, why buy?"

I think people would be less likely to buy a game they couldnt try at all, especially a $40 one with little girls on the cover

Deathsmiles still did pretty well. I think that people are more likely to buy a xbla shooter than actual releases.

[agustusx]

I think people would be less likely to buy a game they couldnt try at all, especially a $40 one with little girls on the cover

Deathsmiles still did pretty well. I think that people are more likely to buy a xbla shooter than actual releases.

The girls are unimportant...I'm talking numbers.

I think my statements keep getting taken out of context. I don't believe the developers expected the disc games to sell to the mainstream, they expected the core audience to know about the game and find enough value to crank out that money. It is not unreasonable to believe they did the math and figured selling as little as 15K units to the core audience at $60 would make more money than selling the same amount of units at $15. I'm sure they didn't expect to gain enough of a lift in sales to offset the reduced price of making it digital only.

How many sales did Ikaruga have? and that is IKARUGA, I doubt Futari had a chance at those numbers even at $10.

Do you really think these games would get a 4-5x lift being on XBLA? Even so the devs would net the same amout of cash...Why make the same amount of cash on fewer people. Why undervalue your product and try to sell it to a market that won't appriecate it?

I think you all have valid points. I love the first stage of Futari, but I also know most people would not buy the game for it. Digital is the future, and lower prices help games sell in some markets. Overall digital is great, I just don't expect a 10x lift on traditional Cave games, there just aren't enough people that would play it.

200k copies @ 10=2,000,000
50k copies @ 60= 3,000,000

just something to think about..

And of course we know future titles from Cave will be designed to reach out to more gamers internationally. Those games very well may have the appeal that could make move countless copies outside the shooter community.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Do you really think these games would get a 3-4x lift being on XBLA?

Its a shame theres no decent sales charts especially for downloads. How much do average top 10 XBLA games sell anyway? With the the resent news about 360 / PC download releases of one or 2 games preforming poorly on the 360 compared to the PC / Steam, im thinking the numbers wont be that great

[dunpeal2064]

I think people would be less likely to buy a game they couldnt try at all, especially a $40 one with little girls on the cover

Deathsmiles still did pretty well. I think that people are more likely to buy a xbla shooter than actual releases.

The girls are unimportant...I'm talking numbers.

I think my statements keep getting taken out of context. I don't believe the developers expected the disc games to sell to the mainstream, they expected the core audience to know about the game and find enough value to crank out that money. It is not unreasonable to believe they did the math and figured selling as little as 15K units to the core audience at $60 would make more money than selling the same amount of units at $15. I'm sure they didn't expect to gain enough of a lift in sales to offset the reduced price of making it digital only.

How many sales did Ikaruga have? and that is IKARUGA, I doubt Futari had a chance at those numbers even at $10.

Do you really think these games would get a 4-5x lift being on XBLA? Even so the devs would net the same amout of cash...Why make the same amount of cash on fewer people. Why undervalue your product and try to sell it to a market that won't appriecate it?

I think you all have valid points. I love the first stage of Futari, but I also know most people would not buy the game for it. Digital is the future, and lower prices help games sell in some markets. Overall digital is great, I just don't expect a 10x lift on traditional Cave games, there just aren't enough people that would play it.

200k copies @ 10=2,000,000
50k copies @ 60= 3,000,000

just something to think about..

And of course we know future titles from Cave will be designed to reach out to more gamers internationally. Those games very well may have the appeal that could make move countless copies outside the shooter community.

You make very good points. I really doubt that they could outsell their physical releases by going the xbla route.

Its strange though how many non-shmuppers will buy a shmup just based off of how ridiculous it is. Many of my friends would have never touched something like Espgaluda 2, but seeing it on the iOS, they figure why not, its fairly cheap, and worth playing every now and then

I would not expect to see Futari or Ketsui on xbla, but it would at least be cool to see Dodonpachi or Dangun Feveron

A little off topic, but who owns the rights to the Yagawa stuff? It seems like there might be some money there as well, seeing as how popular Bakraid and Batrider are, but lacking a home port.

[agustusx]

Do you really think these games would get a 3-4x lift being on XBLA?

Its a shame there's no decent sales charts especially for downloads.

Sorry i edited my post while you were replying, lol. But I agree, without numbers its hard to say.

[Deca]

I would not expect to see Futari or Ketsui on xbla, but it would at least be cool to see Dodonpachi or Dangun Feveron

A little off topic, but who owns the rights to the Yagawa stuff? It seems like there might be some money there as well, seeing as how popular Bakraid and Batrider are, but lacking a home port.

Dangun Feveron is confirmed for an XBLA release...I'm still kind of baffled as to why Dodonpachi isn't as well.

I've been thinking about Raizing releases on XBLA for years, especially Batrider. I wonder how hard it would be for someone to acquire the rights and code the port...maybe there's some small company or indie group that has the means and is up to the task? :p

[DragonInstall]

I'm kind of glad, because maybe we'll get a company who actually puts effort in localizing the games. Lately Aksys releases have all been a budget fest...

All they care about is BB, everything else gets the cheap boot.

[drunkninja24]

I'm kind of glad, because maybe we'll get a company who actually puts effort in localizing the games. Lately Aksys releases have all been a budget fest...

All they care about is BB, everything else gets the cheap boot.

999 came out pretty well, I thought.

[nZero]

Dangun Feveron is confirmed for an XBLA release...I'm still kind of baffled as to why Dodonpachi isn't as well.

Actually they never gave a platform, they just said that M2 was working on it. I'm kind of surprised that nobody has made another announcement since then as it's been a while.

[TVG]

I couldn't come up with a worse job for selling guwange if I tried. Cave did everything wrong, and I'm not talking about the 4:3 debacle either.

1) Shitty, unnapealing virtual cover that doesn't tell you anything. You pretty much have no reason to click on it.
2) If you bothered to click on it, all you get is a shitty engrish rambling about the story and no description or anything else to get you pumped to download the demo
3) No screenshots, lol
If, despite that, the person bothered downloading something with such an exciting title as "Guwange":
4) Not stretched to full screen by default. Making people accept tate games is hard enough, if the default display is a letterbox to top it off, it gets ridiculous. No, most people will not fiddle with the options, especially knowing how unintuitive they are. If ikaruga is displayed fullscreen by default why can't cave do it? They have no sense of marketing outside japanese arcades, that's why.

[Hair]

When I bought Deathsmiles, the Gamestop guys knew it existed... and that they had every copy in the back, not on display. I couldn't find it on display for a while, so I asked if they had it. Both the limited edition and standard case were in the back.

I also called a Gamestop to see if they had any used copies of Panzer Dragoon Orta. They never heard of it (and also don't stock any Xbox games anymore, but that's besides the point). I don't know how someone can work at a game store and have never heard of PD Orta, and while it is only a border line shmup, it was a decent selling shmup for the Xbox.

Gamestop sells and displays what Game Informer and Game Spot push in their reviews. It's capitalism, and it's sad.

I think it is going to be pretty hard for Cave to sell full physical releases in the U.S.... But I'm happy with region free Japanese releases. I have a US Xbox, so I hope other developers start going region free too. I wonder if this will make financial sense for them in the long run.

[bcass]

I think Cave's biggest future (non-Japanese) international market lies in downloads. Whether you like it or not, shmups are just perceived in this way these days (as are lots of other genres, I might add). It's all very well saying that 50k copies @ 60 nets 3,000,000, but Cave don't sell anywhere near those numbers, and the overheads for retail distribution are not insignificant. The only way they've been able to overcome the crappy domestic sales is by porting at an astronomical rate. What happens when they run out of old games to port? They've no arcade market to fall back on now.

[E. Randy Dupre]

XBLA games are always worldwide, localized releases, there has not been any exceptions to this ever

There have. That crappy free hori shmup, for one. Aegis Wing? And some shitty car promotion game. Possibly some others, but those two at least.

[manaka]

I'll be straight with you guys: don't expect DSIIX anytime soon.

That is all I can say on the matter.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Kinda stinks. But I guess it's to be expected. I'm sure no one really picked up DS NA at a gamestop...I'm sure they never even put them on display...

I was at my local Gamestop the other day and spotted a brand new regular edition Death Smiles game displayed on the 360 retail shelf priced at a mere $19.99 USD. Picked it up right on the spot to accompany my LE DS set indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Hair]

Does anyone know the economics involved with making a game region free? Does the developer have to pay more to MS to make it region-free rather than locked to Japan? Or are there other hoops they have to jump through?

[bcass]

They have to pay for certification for each region. It's not just a case of flipping a (software) switch.

[burgerkingdiamond]

I couldn't come up with a worse job for selling guwange if I tried. Cave did everything wrong, and I'm not talking about the 4:3 debacle either.

1) Shitty, unnapealing virtual cover that doesn't tell you anything. You pretty much have no reason to click on it.
2) If you bothered to click on it, all you get is a shitty engrish rambling about the story and no description or anything else to get you pumped to download the demo
3) No screenshots, lol
If, despite that, the person bothered downloading something with such an exciting title as "Guwange":
4) Not stretched to full screen by default. Making people accept tate games is hard enough, if the default display is a letterbox to top it off, it gets ridiculous. No, most people will not fiddle with the options, especially knowing how unintuitive they are. If ikaruga is displayed fullscreen by default why can't cave do it? They have no sense of marketing outside japanese arcades, that's why.

Sounds like most games on the PSN. How the fuck do you expect to sell a game without even at bare minimum a screenshot????? But screw that, screenshots aren't even good enough. EVERY downloadable game should have a video preview. I know that I would probably have spent a lot more money on the PSN if that was the case.

[bcass]

Not really necessary on XBLA as all games have a demo you can try for free. Not so on PSN/WiiWare.

[Sumez]

I'm actually surprised a minimum of X screenshots isn't a requirement... MS are usually rather picky about that stuff. They are also not interested in selling games on their service without proper promotion (hence the free trial rule)

[Last_Dancer]

Xbox 360 is the wrong platform for CAVE games, I don't know why CAVE is in love with the 360, selling ~5.000 Pink Sweets and ~4.000 DDP Black Label is pretty crappy, why bother?

Xbox 360 is the wrong platform for Aksys too, PS3-versions of Aksys games in the USA always sell better on PS3 and not on Xbox360. Look at Arcana Heart 3, PS3-retail version was denied by the idiots from Sony USA, AH3 now goes to PSN, no AH3 for Xbox360 in the USA, no retail, not even xboxlive.

The Anime/Otaku Fanbase in the USA is on PS3 and not on 360, games like Hyperdimension Neptunia, Disgaea etc. actually sell well on PS3, even in the USA, no one buys games like Battle Fantasia, Raiden 4/FighterAces, Guilty Gear Overture, Guwange etc. for the 360 in the USA, theres no demand for such games on the US-Xbox360, the 360 is the Kinect/FPS-console.

If Arcana Heart 3, a game from the more popular BeatemUp genre doesn't make its way to the USA-360, really don't expect a US-release of niche games with names like DODONPACHI DAIFUKKATSU or Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets