Shmup stinkers

[Limbrooke]

Turbo Force is pretty shit as well.

Turbo Force is a very unforgiving game. You power down progressively, if you don't die the rank goes skyhigh, and bombs are random if at all. It's certainly a frustrating game but pardon the bomb point it's not bad just not a lot of fun for the most part.

[Turbo Force] is a bit clunky but it really isn't a bad shmup if you give it a chance. Much better than Aero fighters 2 and 3 for example.

Elaborate on better? Otherwise, do not pass go, etc..

Blast Wind, people only defend it because they spent that much money on it.

What exactly is wrong pardon the usual TechnoSoft treatment (being easy). It's a well done package let down by the fact it has no TATE but then again you don't need it. What the game might benefit from is an extra stage or perhaps a loop (so increase in difficulty either way). Having said that it's not my favourite TS offering but it's certainly more interesting than many other games in this thread. It has good music, nice graphics, fair variety (branching paths), and has some (albeit simple) scoring. If only jp wasn't AWOL.

I found a number of shmups being not enjoyable at all: Thunder Force III, IV and VI, Strike Gunner S.T.G. (arcade), Tyrian... Can't say I was trying hard to enjoy them, though. Still, when there's Hyper Duel out there, why would I try hard to enjoy Thunder Force?

Perhaps since Hyper Duel blows anus. Personally, I've had a hard time enjoying it whereas Thunder Force is the opposite. What sort of good game gives you points for not moving.

Strikers 1945+ is bad because it's taken a vert game and put it in yoko in friggin' low res.

Not justified enough. It's hard and differs enough from Strikers 2 that is distinct. The graphics aren't terrible and given the changed screen axis the bullet speed and density compromise makes the game just as playable.

Also, Dale is the man.

[Skykid]

Also, Dale is the man.

No he's not. Perfunctory commentaries riding the wave of a purposeless Elixir thread bashing are not part of light-hearted debate. His point was moot because his post was incorrect in tone, timing and tact, and this thread does have value.

If you don't like threads, don't fucking post in them.

Limbrooke, most of the games you mentioned aren't in the list anymore, most debate surrounding them was put to bed a while ago. The only one that lingers is S/1945+, which to me (as an observer) looks okay tbh - but I don't want to argue with so many folks who think it's wack.

EDIT: a short gameplay video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apPmYzCo8Xw
And no, those deaths aren't edited, hit detection in this game is really that bad.

Thanks for this. Hmm, it doesn't look utterly dire, just a bit slow. Anyone else played this who can vouch for its awfulness?

[Blackbird]

So weird. Many bullets passed right through the player's wing, while shots clear of the left wing seemed to explode the player. Like the hitbox was shifted way off center to the left.

[Limbrooke]

The only one that lingers is S/1945+, which to me (as an observer) looks okay tbh - but I don't want to argue with so many folks who think it's wack.

I'd like to know how many people who've made the comments on Strikers Plus have put in the time to actually have a valid point. That's honest and not simply since I've ran the high-score topic for the past 4+ years. There's more to the game beyond it's looks and asset ripping from Strikers 2. Don't want to argue though - why make a thread that is designed to spark debate or conflict? My points in quotation still stand even if they are off the list.

And yes, Dale is the man.

[Skykid]

I'd like to know how many people who've made the comments on Strikers Plus have put in the time to actually have a valid point. That's honest and not simply since I've ran the high-score topic for the past 4+ years. There's more to the game beyond it's looks and asset ripping from Strikers 2. Don't want to argue though - why make a thread that is designed to spark debate or conflict? eehh..

I don't want to argue either, so for that reason I'll remove Strikers 1945+ for the last time (it won't be going back on.) My gut feeling tells me it might not be the best Strikers title, but it doesn't appear to be particularly poor (which is what we're looking for.)
I didn't start a thread to spark conflict - there hasn't been any conflict in the entire thread either, just conflicting opinions, which is a different thing.
If you read the opening post I had no intention of compiling a list of bad shmups, I was just curious to hear of some terrible ones I'd been lucky enough never to come across. Someone posted some vids and I decided to compile them. For fun, y'know.

That's it.

And yes, Dale is the man.

Not in this thread he ain't.

Strikers 1945+ removed.
Fire Hawk added.

Back OT!

[Drum]

somebody is putting forward In the Hunt as an example of a good shooter. Troubling.

Indeed.

It's a fun and beautiful game, but it's more like Metal-Slug--in-the-vehicle-all-the-time (obviously), so not a pure 100% ture shmup

No, it's totally a shmup - it's just a massive chore to play. But damn it looks good.

[Ruldra]

I was going to remove my vote for Strikers+, but I see it was removed from the list already. I agree that it's bad shmup but not enough to be a stinker.

No, it's totally a shmup - it's just a massive chore to play.

In the Hunt is awesome and you know it. Also, it's not a 100% shmup since it doesn't have forced scrolling.

[Skykid]

I was going to remove my vote for Strikers+, but I see it was removed from the list already. I agree that it's bad shmup but not enough to be a stinker.

I agree, and I haven't even played it.

It's a pretty good list now, although I was expecting a few more Euroshmups to join the ranks.

[nimitz]

Cyber Core definitely doesn't belong in that list, it's actually one of the better PCE shmup (not that this is saying much...)

Also, I dispute Asuka & Asuka, it's a pretty bland old school toaplan "clone" (with awful bullet wobbling to boot), nothing interesting about it, but nothing really bad either.

Finally, a quick note about strikers plus, it's actually not a "real" verizontal, at least not in aspect ratio, the playfield is 3:3 (square) which is actually a nice compromise between tate and verizontal, I wish more verizontals would use that aspect ratio instead of 4:3.

[Skykid]

Cyber Core definitely doesn't belong in that list, it's actually one of the better PCE shmup (not that this is saying much...)

Also, I dispute Asuka & Asuka, it's a pretty bland old school toaplan "clone" (with awful bullet wobbling to boot), nothing interesting about it, but nothing really bad either.

Finally, a quick note about strikers plus, it's actually not a "real" verizontal, at least not in aspect ratio, the playfield is 3:3 (square) which is actually a nice compromise between tate and verizontal, I wish more verizontals would use that aspect ratio instead of 4:3.

You're the second to mention Cyber Core. Honestly, it looks unremarkable, but there are a ton of unremarkable shmups on the PCE. So I've taken it off.

Asuka & Asuka though, I dunno... seriously, it looks pretty darn poor. Your shot reaches about half the screens length and the whole thing comes across as sleep inducingly lame.
It seems to smell a bit, so I'll leave it for the time being to see if there's any other disputes.

[stryc9]

So Gates of Zendocon. Exactly what is good about it after you take into account the stupid level design, gluggy controls and ridiculous enemy graphics? I won't mention the poor music cos just about every Lynx game sucked when it came to tunes. It was a poor man's shmup even back then, I mean fuck, Gradius and R-Type already existed. The only thing it had going for it was that it was a shooter for your Atari Lynx. Let's face it; they were in short supply...
Seriously Drum try playing it again today. I play heaps of shooters from that era and they still hold up, but this, this just sucks.
Funny how no ones tried defending Zarlor Mercenary yet. It had a few things right (like good graphics) and it was tough as leather, but MAN your shots are slow. What is it with Euroshmups and slow shots? Even Soldner X2 has slow shots. I don't get it.

I played Gates of Zendocon about half a year ago. What a great game! Pretty depressing that you're dragging it through the mud on the very same page that somebody is putting forward In the Hunt as an example of a good shooter. Troubling.

In The Hunt isn't perfect by any means but it shits over GOZ from a very great height. If I had the cartridge in front of me now I'd snap it in half. It was games like this that ensured Atari was always miles behind Sega and Nintendo in that particular era and beyond. But hey, you likes what you likes.

[doctorx0079]

If you read the opening post I had no intention of compiling a list of bad shmups, I was just curious to hear of some terrible ones I'd been lucky enough never to come across. Someone posted some vids and I decided to compile them. For fun, y'know.

So for example you're not going to bother with games Rob has already raked over the coals.

[Skykid]

If you read the opening post I had no intention of compiling a list of bad shmups, I was just curious to hear of some terrible ones I'd been lucky enough never to come across. Someone posted some vids and I decided to compile them. For fun, y'know.

So for example you're not going to bother with games Rob has already raked over the coals.

No I'd love to add them man, where do I find his list?

Remember, I haven't made this list on my own, it's based on the input of everyone else. If there's more stinkers, bring em on.

[doctorx0079]

I was thinking in particular of the 1978-1983 arcade shooter countdown. Some real stinkers there, e.g. Zoar. Although he does have some controversial opinions e.g. Zaxxon.

[Drum]

So Gates of Zendocon. Exactly what is good about it after you take into account the stupid level design, gluggy controls and ridiculous enemy graphics? I won't mention the poor music cos just about every Lynx game sucked when it came to tunes. It was a poor man's shmup even back then, I mean fuck, Gradius and R-Type already existed. The only thing it had going for it was that it was a shooter for your Atari Lynx. Let's face it; they were in short supply...
Seriously Drum try playing it again today. I play heaps of shooters from that era and they still hold up, but this, this just sucks.
Funny how no ones tried defending Zarlor Mercenary yet. It had a few things right (like good graphics) and it was tough as leather, but MAN your shots are slow. What is it with Euroshmups and slow shots? Even Soldner X2 has slow shots. I don't get it.

I played Gates of Zendocon about half a year ago. What a great game! Pretty depressing that you're dragging it through the mud on the very same page that somebody is putting forward In the Hunt as an example of a good shooter. Troubling.

In The Hunt isn't perfect by any means but it shits over GOZ from a very great height. If I had the cartridge in front of me now I'd snap it in half. It was games like this that ensured Atari was always miles behind Sega and Nintendo in that particular era and beyond. But hey, you likes what you likes.

If I had the cartridge in front of me I'd give it an erotic scented oil massage. Game is fun and really doesn't do anything wrong. Awesome laser beam that satisfyingly cuts through anything when you hold down the button, bombs and option fire when you tap (clearly Cave studied The Gates of Zendocon carefully). Just the right amount of momentum so you can tap-dodge, useful shield, cool power-down system that uses your power-ups as shields and ensures things get nicely hairy when you are sucking but sets you on your feet after you die, cool repairing mini-game, ludicrous amount of paths through the game with a password system, tons of variety, pleasingly off/amateurish spritework, very little memorisation for a hori (or a vert for that matter). Not a bad game at all.

[Skykid]

I was thinking in particular of the 1978-1983 arcade shooter countdown. Some real stinkers there, e.g. Zoar. Although he does have some controversial opinions e.g. Zaxxon.

Wow, great list. Didn't even know it existed (quite useful actually!)

Problem is I'm not familiar with all those shmups, so either someone can enlighten me as to the stinkers (Rob?) or I can take some time when I get a minute to comb through all of them and see what the comments are. The ones on the first page are great additions already. Thanks for the link mate.

[Drum]

I was thinking in particular of the 1978-1983 arcade shooter countdown. Some real stinkers there, e.g. Zoar. Although he does have some controversial opinions e.g. Zaxxon.

Some of his writeups were completely terrible and indefensible, but he got Zaxxon right. Especially considering some of the games he put below it.

[Dale]

I don't think I'd ever hate on a thread just to support Elixer. I don't really agree with you on many things but you seem nice at least I like your posts better then his. But their is too much negativity on the internet in general a thread pointing out obscure classics would be better. Or talking up games that noboby likes half serious...Phoenix is perfect. This is more like games that are nit picked commonly then stinkers. 1942?

Edit: Limbrooke, Ed Obscuro,Zebra Airforce, Drago Force and me are the only people that have played enough games to say whats shit or not. Yeah play more then one credit of Final Soldeir then we'll talk.

[Drum]

I don't think I'd ever hate on a thread just to support Elixer. I don't really agree with you on many things but you seem nice at least I like your posts better then his. But their is too much negativity on the internet in general a thread pointing out obscure classics would be better. Or talking up games that noboby likes half serious...Phoenix is perfect. This is more like games that are nit picked commonly then stinkers. 1942?

Sorry, I can't tell - are you saying that Phoenix isn't good? Because that is a bad thing to do.

[Dale]

Phoenix is off the chain. But Pleides is better. People bitch about the great sound effects too much though.

[louisg]

If there's any doubt about Phoenix, I can assure everyone that it rules ;D


.. I'd still rather be playing Galaga though!

[Skykid]

I don't think I'd ever hate on a thread just to support Elixer. I don't really agree with you on many things but you seem nice at least I like your posts better then his. But their is too much negativity on the internet in general a thread pointing out obscure classics would be better. Or talking up games that noboby likes half serious...Phoenix is perfect. This is more like games that are nit picked commonly then stinkers. 1942?

Edit: Limbrooke, Ed Obscuro,Zebra Airforce, Drago Force and me are the only people that have played enough games to say whats shit or not. Yeah play more then one credit of Final Soldeir then we'll talk.

I reckon I've played enough games, but from the stuff turning up in this thread, perhaps not enough shmups.

I must ask though why you keep mentioning 1942? The only 1942 on the list is Joint Strike - is that what you're hung up about? If you have a good reason I should remove it, I can. That's the purpose of having people contribute or dispute titles on the list.

I'm perplexed that anyone would think this thread was started out of negativity! Not at all. On the contrary, I asked someone to tell me of some poorer shmups because I've clearly been privileged enough to only ever stumble across fairly good ones.
Building a list was an idea that I had on a whim after a few vids were posted up... and the idea of having a collected video list of crappy games was to offer light-hearted humour, not internet malice.

I think (hope!) most people visiting the thread kind of got that, but I apologise to anyone who got the wrong idea.

[Dale]

I thought the original was called joint strike my mistake. Are you referring to console port of the game? I know a lot of people like it but I think Zaxxon is terrible.

Ya know just throw Ikaruga up there anyway it gets too much undeserved love. If people feel bad about it being up there they can just read any given mainstream shmup article sucking it's dick.

[DjMcDougal]

Philosoma is pretty awesome actually quite difficult at times. I thought the game camera changing all the time was a fun idea. The graphics for its year i think 1995 or 1996? Pretty good at the time.. great music as well. In the Hunt is also overlooked, most of the bosses are insanely easy, it's a bit harder to go through a level without dying due to having a slow ass submarine. The final boss is simple enough but its flickering projectiles can really f-ck your eyes over and make you take a hit.

[nZero]

I did indeed mean for SNES BlazeOn to be added to the list of stinkers

I thought the original was called joint strike my mistake. Are you referring to console port of the game?

1942 Joint Strike is a widescreen sequel for XBox Live Arcade and Playstation Network that came out in 2008.

[Limbrooke]

I did indeed mean for SNES BlazeOn to be added to the list of stinkers

For some reason I was associating this with Strike Gunner STG, also on SNES. At the very least BlaZeon looks alright and has nice music. STG is pretty dull, especially since it's an arcade conversion - although it's arguable the original game wasn't too compelling to begin with.

[Skykid]

I thought the original was called joint strike my mistake. Are you referring to console port of the game?

1942 Joint Strike is a widescreen sequel for XBox Live Arcade and Playstation Network that came out in 2008.

There you go Dale, I hope that's managed to take the edge off of this thread now. The only other 1942 that ever made the list was the NES conversion (some of the games on there are port specific - we're not ragging on series here) which was since removed because it was of its era rather than out and out poor.

Although I'm not a huge Ikaruga fan, it's certainly no stinker, so we can't list that one.

@Nzero, Snes BlazeOn up momentarily, thanks.

[TVG]

Asuka & Asuka though, I dunno... seriously, it looks pretty darn poor. Your shot reaches about half the screens length and the whole thing comes across as sleep inducingly lame.
It seems to smell a bit, so I'll leave it for the time being to see if there's any other disputes.

The shot not reaching fullscreen is common in pre-gradius games. I don't know asuka&asuka but while it's no tiger heli, it doesn't seem to suck for it's time. The first proper verts have aged pretty badly imo (that includes xevious) but you can't call them stinkers.

Edit: I mistook this for some nes game. After watching the vid and seeing it was released in 88, yeah I guess it does suck.

[Skykid]

Edit: I mistook this for some nes game. After watching the vid and seeing it was released in 88, yeah I guess it does suck.

Phew, it's not off the hook then.
I'll go and make sure it's noted as the Arcade version.

[charlie chong]

Edit: Limbrooke, Ed Obscuro,Zebra Airforce, Drago Force and me are the only people that have played enough games to say whats shit or not. Yeah play more then one credit of Final Soldeir then we'll talk.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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