Mushihime Sama Ps2 impressions

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:06 pm

Dylan1CC wrote:
I actually think his review/preview was very fair and Mielke definitely sounds like he is a somewhat avid shooter fan.

I mean, some people here like Ikaruga & GW and then some don't and that is an understatement (Ikaruga is an "evil puzzle game" don't get me started). But I went in there and set the record straight a bit, my post:

It's a matter of style, not fan passion. As a general rule, it's classier not to say that a thing rocks because the others suck. If you compare something to cow dung and you say it's better, you don't help the reader to understand, if he doesn't know what cow dung is (and thus, being better than cow dung may be still below a decent level). Also, what he states is wrong, as Mars Matrix has no slowdown, for instance.It is fanboystic to review stuff as "omg this game rocks because it's not like that other one that sucks00rz!", given the above reasons

Thanks for sending the edit, of course

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:33 pm

professor ganson wrote:I'm really happy to see that Mielke is still keeping up on shmups. Before I found shmups.com, most of what I knew about shooters was thanks to Milkman, his various reviews of shmups and his useful article, aptly titled "GMR's really useful guide to shooters." If it weren't for that article, I would probably still be playing Halo and would know nothing about Battle Garegga and DDP. I suppose it's fair to say that Milkman changed my life significantly for the better. My only criticism: if it weren't for him, I probably wouldn't have wasted so much time playing shmups with analog control. But this is easily forgiven.

Mielke is hardly a shooter player. He gave Gunbird 2 a 5.0 out of 10 in EGM, claiming that it's too short and hard, boring, and not Radiant Silvergun. No mention of the loop, coin chains, rank, or anything that even remotely has to do with how the game is meant to be played. He's been on my "list" ever since.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:51 pm

NTSC-J wrote:
professor ganson wrote:I'm really happy to see that Mielke is still keeping up on shmups. Before I found shmups.com, most of what I knew about shooters was thanks to Milkman, his various reviews of shmups and his useful article, aptly titled "GMR's really useful guide to shooters." If it weren't for that article, I would probably still be playing Halo and would know nothing about Battle Garegga and DDP. I suppose it's fair to say that Milkman changed my life significantly for the better. My only criticism: if it weren't for him, I probably wouldn't have wasted so much time playing shmups with analog control. But this is easily forgiven.
Mielke is hardly a shooter player. He gave Gunbird 2 a 5.0 out of 10 in EGM, claiming that it's too short and hard, boring, and not Radiant Silvergun. No mention of the loop, coin chains, rank, or anything that even remotely has to do with how the game is meant to be played. He's been on my "list" ever since.

Ha. He's on mine now too. Anyone that compares a Psikyo shooter to RS's gameplay system is incoherent to put it mildly. Based on what you said, maybe he just likes Mushi for the character art? Heh.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:52 pm

Randorama wrote:
Dylan1CC wrote:
I actually think his review/preview was very fair and Mielke definitely sounds like he is a somewhat avid shooter fan.

I mean, some people here like Ikaruga & GW and then some don't and that is an understatement (Ikaruga is an "evil puzzle game" don't get me started). But I went in there and set the record straight a bit, my post:

It's a matter of style, not fan passion. As a general rule, it's classier not to say that a thing rocks because the others suck. If you compare something to cow dung and you say it's better, you don't help the reader to understand, if he doesn't know what cow dung is (and thus, being better than cow dung may be still below a decent level). Also, what he states is wrong, as Mars Matrix has no slowdown, for instance.It is fanboystic to review stuff as "omg this game rocks because it's not like that other one that sucks00rz!", given the above reasons
Thanks for sending the edit, of course

Right, I stand corrected. Read my reply to what NTSC-J said.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:57 pm

My new 1up.com reply:

Also...
Author:Dylan1CC , 07/28/2005

...as others said there is no online ranking mode in the PS2 version (if it's there I have not found it yet). Might want to correct that. And there is no slowdown in Mars Matrix.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:13 pm

Oof, ESP Galuda fans, unless ya wanna stroke out, do not read David Smith's, ahem, brilliant review for the game on 1up.com (as an aside, why it is labeled as a "preview" i do not know). Yowza. 1up.com is now gonna be on everyone's list here.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:13 pm

NTSC-J wrote:
Mielke is hardly a shooter player. He gave Gunbird 2 a 5.0 out of 10 in EGM, claiming that it's too short and hard, boring, and not Radiant Silvergun. No mention of the loop, coin chains, rank, or anything that even remotely has to do with how the game is meant to be played. He's been on my "list" ever since.

Yeah, that's a serious problem. Though I would say that GB 2 is a bit too hard.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:13 pm

Oh thanks again, but after what NTSC-J said, i can skip the guy altogether without a blink.I need to review the game once i put my hands on it, btw

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:30 pm

Okay, I had to read it. In his defense, he actually played the game, and understands the tip of the iceberg. Unfortunately, it looks like he got the shit kicked out of him very early. He also made some glaring errors:

Espgaluda's smart-bomb system provides another lure for the daredevil player, because it borrows the reflect-force concept from Giga Wing -- triggering the barrier attack absorbs a few shots and returns them the other way as a powerful beam attack.

Huh?

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:10 am

OK, I am mainly playing in original mode right now. When the game saves my high score in original mode, it lists the generic score table first, and I have to keep hitting the "O" button to see my ranking which is on the last ranking page. I don't get it. Why does it keep the pre-set generic scores on the front ranking page?

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:14 am

Espgaluda's smart-bomb system provides another lure for the daredevil player, because it borrows the reflect-force concept from Giga Wing -- triggering the barrier attack absorbs a few shots and returns them the other way as a powerful beam attack.

What??? I don't even own the game and I KNOW there is no reflect force in Galuda. How can you play a game and claim it has an actual gameplay mechanic which it doesn't even use?! It's like saying "SMB 3's use of the 'rock paper scissors' game is weak. The game's use of Janken is in many ways just a gimmick." What is this guy on? I swear, it seems like some of these guys just write stuff up on the spot from scratch on some of their assignments.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:44 am

I noticed that too while reading the article. I also like the fact that he wrote that ESP RA.DE. was only distributed in Japan. It would be correct if it wasn't for the fact that there is an international version...

japtor · Post by **japtor** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:25 am

what, did no one notice these in mielkes preview?:

The game even rewards you for clearing the stages while killing every enemy ("No Miss").

...and even button configurations to auto-set rapid shot, and rapid full auto, which even drops bombs for you when the computer deems it appropriate.

course i havent played it...but those two details sound completely wrong.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 am

Okay, after playing this a week, I think I can honestly say that this is a fair at best port of an above average game. Before you flamed, lemme explain. A port of a 5-stage shooter these days is obviously going to have bonuses. Taito attempted to, but failed miserably I think.

1: Practice mode -- maybe I'm doing something wrong, but even setting rank to "no miss" I can't get the bullets to go as fast as they do if I really no miss (on the later stages).
2: Resetting a stage for the benefit of practice also apparently drops the rank. In both of these cases, it's shit practice, no?
3: No replays
4: Arrange Mode is pretty lame
5: Filtered Graphics -- painful on the eyes.

Good Stuff
1: Gallery (even though it doesn't work in TATE).

Am I glad I picked it up? Yes. Was it worth the $60? Yes. Is the game still fun? Yes. Do I hold it up proud like Arika's two Cave ports? No. It's just not a solid product. There's no love in this port, and it shows. It is the epitome of when something goes commercial and turns turdish. I just see cut corners at every... uh... corner.

EDIT: Okay, maybe I'm wrong about the speed of the bullets thing.... need to play more I guess. I just got to Stage 5 on my last life and they seem just as fast as they were w/ a no-miss up until there. Confused. I did so well on this stage the other day. Opinions on the port job are the same though. O_o

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:45 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Okay, after playing this a week, I think I can honestly say that this is a fair at best port of an above average game. Before you flamed, lemme explain. A port of a 5-stage shooter these days is obviously going to have bonuses. Taito attempted to, but failed miserably I think.

1: Practice mode -- maybe I'm doing something wrong, but even setting rank to "no miss" I can't get the bullets to go as fast as they do if I really no miss (on the later stages).
2: Resetting a stage for the benefit of practice also apparently drops the rank. In both of these cases, it's shit practice, no?
3: No replays
4: Arrange Mode is pretty lame
5: Filtered Graphics -- painful on the eyes.

Good Stuff
1: Gallery (even though it doesn't work in TATE).

Am I glad I picked it up? Yes. Was it worth the $60? Yes. Is the game still fun? Yes. Do I hold it up proud like Arika's two Cave ports? No. It's just not a solid product. There's no love in this port, and it shows. It is the epitome of when something goes commercial and turns turdish. I just see cut corners at every... uh... corner.

EDIT: Okay, maybe I'm wrong about the speed of the bullets thing.... need to play more I guess. I just got to Stage 5 on my last life and they seem just as fast as they were w/ a no-miss up until there. Confused. I did so well on this stage the other day. Opinions on the port job are the same though. O_o

I agree with the arrange mode critisism, it is like playing a watered down maniac, and arguments about it being made for beginners are simply not true when you look at the difficulty of original mode being suitable for newer players. A wasted game mode IMO + very dissapointed.

Post by **system11** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:56 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Okay, after playing this a week, I think I can honestly say that this is a fair at best port of an above average game. Before you flamed, lemme explain. A port of a 5-stage shooter these days is obviously going to have bonuses. Taito attempted to, but failed miserably I think.

Ouch. That does seem very harsh. I'll explain why.

1) You really expected a low res port? These are dead. I agree on the filtering however, it should have been optional. Psikyos cheap n nasty interlace looks better overall.
2) No console ports I'm aware of have a replay function, by this argument DOJ and galuda would lose points too.
3) Arranged mode is quite nice IMHO - it's a sort of mellow score onslaught modification of Maniac mode. Having yet another really hard mode would seem pretty redundant given the presence of Ultra. This is the only ported game by the way with 4 play modes, that's 2 more than Galuda or DOJ. This is also a response to freddiebamboo - arranged does not have to be a bitchslap mode when one already exists. Strangely, I don't consider Original a beginner mode, as Maniac is actually easier.
4) The practise stuff actually seemed ok to me, maybe I'm not good enough to push the ranking to where a discrepancy would be noticeable.

I thought they went out of their way to make a pretty good port - little things like the configurable rapid fire buttons and so on, wouldn't have been there in a lazy port. Bashing Taito seems popular these days, but it smacks of biting the hand that feeds. Is this all fallout from the lack of tate in GWG?

serge · Post by **serge** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:03 pm

bloodflowers wrote:2) No console ports I'm aware of have a replay function, by this argument DOJ and galuda would lose points too.

Maybe I just misunderstood what you are saying, but you can save/view your replays in both DOJ and ESP Galuda.

Post by **system11** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:57 pm

serge wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:2) No console ports I'm aware of have a replay function, by this argument DOJ and galuda would lose points too.
Maybe I just misunderstood what you are saying, but you can save/view your replays in both DOJ and ESP Galuda.

*checks*

I genuinely never even noticed this one. I used to play both of them every day, and never even glanced at that! I stand corrected. Checking reminded me of one real annoyance in the Arika ports - having to confirm saves constantly when autosave is enabled - a problem mushi doesn't suffer. Question though - how to you save a replay and view it? I turned on replay save, died, nothing happened? I paused it and unpaused, it flashed 'replay save' in red, but again nothing new appeared. I found a replay list in arcade simulation, should they have appeared there? Do you need to actually complete a stage for it to bother saving it?

snap monkey · Post by **snap monkey** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:03 pm

bloodflowers wrote: Do you need to actually complete a stage for it to bother saving it?

Yeah, atleast from my experiences with ESP Galuda, it saves a replay each time you complete a stage and I think that's the only way to do it. They'll show up in the arcade simulation replay list.

And yes, auto save runs you through prompts a bit too often for my tastes. I may consider just doing a manual save after every play session.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:34 pm

dylan1cc, i just read your retort on the music and while someone may not cite every influence, as a musician, even I hear zuntata circa their "chase HQ" and "ninja warriors" period , not to mention some 808 state and a LOT of YMO.. doubly so in the arrange version of stage 1's music..

BIG · Post by **BIG** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:51 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:Okay, after playing this a week, I think I can honestly say that this is a fair at best port of an above average game. Before you flamed, lemme explain. A port of a 5-stage shooter these days is obviously going to have bonuses. Taito attempted to, but failed miserably I think.

1: Practice mode -- maybe I'm doing something wrong, but even setting rank to "no miss" I can't get the bullets to go as fast as they do if I really no miss (on the later stages).
2: Resetting a stage for the benefit of practice also apparently drops the rank. In both of these cases, it's shit practice, no?
3: No replays
4: Arrange Mode is pretty lame
5: Filtered Graphics -- painful on the eyes.

Good Stuff
1: Gallery (even though it doesn't work in TATE).

Am I glad I picked it up? Yes. Was it worth the $60? Yes. Is the game still fun? Yes. Do I hold it up proud like Arika's two Cave ports? No. It's just not a solid product. There's no love in this port, and it shows. It is the epitome of when something goes commercial and turns turdish. I just see cut corners at every... uh... corner.

EDIT: Okay, maybe I'm wrong about the speed of the bullets thing.... need to play more I guess. I just got to Stage 5 on my last life and they seem just as fast as they were w/ a no-miss up until there. Confused. I did so well on this stage the other day. Opinions on the port job are the same though. O_o

Getting a bit spoiled here aren't we,mate?

About a year ago,who would've thought we'd even see anymore Cave stuff being ported,especially after that whole Arika vs. Cave episode?

I'm just glad that Taito did not overlook the tate feature this time around

B-

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:05 pm

Is anyone else still waiting on a preordered copy of Mushi? Play-Asia has always been super-dependable, so I'm not yet worried. But I think things have always arrived within ten days. Oh well. Maybe tomorrow.

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:41 pm

I'm still waiting...

Then again, I'm in the UK - so I usually expect to wait 10 days, or so.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:04 pm

pixelcorps wrote:dylan1cc, i just read your retort on the music and while someone may not cite every influence, as a musician, even I hear zuntata circa their "chase HQ" and "ninja warriors" period , not to mention some 808 state and a LOT of YMO.. doubly so in the arrange version of stage 1's music..

Manabu-san's musical muses YMO is quoted, but not the whole Zuntata team. Actually, i've noticed that stage 1 is Tokio's (old shmup by Taito, bgm by OGR) theme rearranged with a YMO flavour (and other many influences).Stage 2 is a mix of various influences, among them the Kukeiha club and some of their non-shmup works ( for instance TMNT, or other similar titles...sadly i don't remember much about single artists from Kukeiha club),with other "normal music" influences. Stage 3 is the most Gradius-like themes, not really a specific reference but a mix of many themes from the arcade versions (the refrain sounds like one of Gradius III's last stages,or Xexex's final theme: i'd add something from Tangerine Dream or Stravinsky, my knowledge of music is superficial but the very last part sounds like a fast bolero, so...).

Uhm, half of the work done...Stage 4 is very close to what Megaten Hosoe did on Dragon Saber (the true name is not Megaten, but i'm not sure, probably Shinji). Stage 5 is again very Kukeiha-ish, actually very Xexe-ish (and again, i apologize for not knowing the name),with something again oriented towards Hosoe's early works (the two are friends).That's the song with the most 808 state samples/soundeffects/etc Final boss...uhm, well, a-capella stuff, the ending theme is Enya-esque.

Other spotted homages and influences?

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:19 pm

BIG wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Okay, after playing this a week, I think I can honestly say that this is a fair at best port of an above average game. Before you flamed, lemme explain. A port of a 5-stage shooter these days is obviously going to have bonuses. Taito attempted to, but failed miserably I think.

1: Practice mode -- maybe I'm doing something wrong, but even setting rank to "no miss" I can't get the bullets to go as fast as they do if I really no miss (on the later stages).
2: Resetting a stage for the benefit of practice also apparently drops the rank. In both of these cases, it's shit practice, no?
3: No replays
4: Arrange Mode is pretty lame
5: Filtered Graphics -- painful on the eyes.

Good Stuff
1: Gallery (even though it doesn't work in TATE).

Am I glad I picked it up? Yes. Was it worth the $60? Yes. Is the game still fun? Yes. Do I hold it up proud like Arika's two Cave ports? No. It's just not a solid product. There's no love in this port, and it shows. It is the epitome of when something goes commercial and turns turdish. I just see cut corners at every... uh... corner.

EDIT: Okay, maybe I'm wrong about the speed of the bullets thing.... need to play more I guess. I just got to Stage 5 on my last life and they seem just as fast as they were w/ a no-miss up until there. Confused. I did so well on this stage the other day. Opinions on the port job are the same though. O_o
Getting a bit spoiled here aren't we,mate?

About a year ago,who would've thought we'd even see anymore Cave stuff being ported,especially after that whole Arika vs. Cave episode?

I'm just glad that Taito did not overlook the tate feature this time around

B-

Good Stuff

1. 4 games in one, each with various difficulty levels. (Galuda & DOJ each had only 2 games, so this is a big bonus)

2. The option to turn off the music but leave the sound effects. This is a huge plus which neither DOJ or Galuda had. Now you can have your own music playing and still hear the sound cues from the game!

3. True High-Res (just kidding). The graphics are beautiful to me. I don't see what the fuss is.

Bad Stuff

None. I'm glad this game was ported. Remember when we were wishing and praying for a port, doubting if it could be done due to the bullet count, etc. ? Now we have it so let's enjoy it.

FMK · Post by **FMK** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:23 pm

professor ganson wrote:Is anyone else still waiting on a preordered copy of Mushi?

Yep. P-A airmail to where I live takes an entire month. There's customs sluggish crap in between, but their mail is really slow. I'm almost sure it's not registered nor insured, despite what they claim. They don't give a registration number, unlike Lik-Sang. And Lik-Sang is much faster for me, but more expensive.

Ord · Post by **Ord** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:40 pm

I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive too. Oh well, maybe tommorow.

pixelcorps · Post by **pixelcorps** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:49 pm

Randorama wrote:

Other spotted homages and influences?

I can't spot much esle as I'm just a synth music geek, so any stuff out of that
genre i'm lost on... I adore the YMO styled arrange version of stage 1 on the OST, he really paid attention to the synth sounds, apart from the "trance" type sounds and the sampled beats in some parts it could easily have been included in one of YMO's early LP's...

i'd like to hear this "tokio" track you mention..

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:56 pm

pixelcorps wrote:
Randorama wrote:

Other spotted homages and influences?
I can't spot much esle as I'm just a synth music geek, so any stuff out of that
genre i'm lost on... I adore the YMO styled arrange version of stage 1 on the OST, he really paid attention to the synth sounds, apart from the "trance" type sounds and the sampled beats in some parts it could easily have been included in one of YMO's early LP's...

i'd like to hear this "tokio" track you mention..

It's actually the only theme in Tokio (Taito, 1986), easily Mameable.Not exactly a cover of it, but the two themes are somewhat similar...

Post by **system11** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:30 pm

Ord wrote:I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive too. Oh well, maybe tommorow.

Sometimes the extra cost of UPS or EMS is well worth it - I'm in the UK too of course, and I've been playing the game since last Friday - ordered from play-asia.