Shmuppers who SUCK

[Edwards80]

Funny thing is, I had an interesting conversation with my girlfriend. She asked me how I could stand playing the same game over and over and over...

Funnily enough my wife asked the same thing a lot until recently. I've struggled to get her into games and went the usual casual route with her, then she randomly said "let me have a go" when I was playing Gradius V!

She's on it quite often now - she was terrible at first but as has been mentioned, it's all down to practice and she is improving a lot to the point she would kick the ass of most of my non-shmup playing friends. I'm sure we all feel good at shmups naturally now but having played so many it's much easier to work out what's going on when we try new ones.

The cool thing is, even when she was stuck on stage 1 she was enjoying it for the challenge and even asked me if I could make it give her no credits

As for me sucking at shmups, as long as I am enjoying it I don't mind . . . but I enjoy it more when I am getting a decent score Having a mate on a similar level is great for pushing you to get higher scores - xbox live has been cool for this!

[Thjodbjorn]

I'm still pretty bad. But I'm noticing improvement, which is a very exciting thing.

[Davey]

there is a part in King Of Kong where Billy Mitchell is saying that being a champion is "in your DNA".

Bullshit. He's a champion because he worked night and day for his achievement. While natural talent does exists, many people regard themselves like that for an easy ego boost.

It's been a long time since I saw King of Kong, but I don't think this quote was just about innate talent. IIRC, Billy was a competitive pinball player and wasn't interested in video games at first. Once video games started overtaking pinball in popularity, he started playing them because that's where the competition went. He was more of a natural competitor than an avid gamer.

So instead of (or in addition to) skill, I think the DNA comment was about an inborn desire to compete and the willingness to put in the time to be the best. Of course, he still comes off as a giant douche in that movie.

More on-topic:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2699
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3142
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23018

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Yea I remember looking back into my childhood during the 8/ 16bit era. It was quite rare for me to have actually of beaten them. Im sure some of it came from been a speccy gamer (jet set willy) and renting most of my MD games. That didnt stop me from enjoying these games.

[mesh control]

What set of skills denotes an average player?

I wouldn't say I'm terrible, but I'm not good either.

I left Thunder Force IV running while a friend who I would consider a casual gamer was over and while I was showering he tried to play but couldn't get past the first stage after multiple attempts. I also have another friend who is a very driven Street Fighter player over, who, by the end of the night demolished my Espgaluda II score in his first time playing the game.

This all comes back to what Ruldra said:

Bullshit. He's a champion because he worked night and day for his achievement.

I have never seen anyone put so much effort into games and it really shows.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

There is a distinction between pratice and everyday play though imo. Ill use the guitar as an analogy. Too improve properlly regular dedicated pratice is needed with the player working hard at it, this can be enjoyable (or not) and is part of the work hard, play hard ethic. Compared to just having fun strumming a few cords or playing a few tunes that youve played a million times. allot less progress in mastering the guitar is made this way.

[null1024]

Is this an ode to the "holy fuck, I managed to get to level 3, wooOH SHI-" people [read: me :DDD]?

[gs68]

Allow me to pull a quote from the folks from Tetrisconcept: Grandmasters are made, not born.

[gennss]

Erm, i'm terrible, but happy to play games I normally would credit feed in arcades.
Learned to play on 1cc and try to high score.

I got 1.3M in Ikaruga. lasted till lvl 2

Thats pretty much as awesome as I get. Learning playing, having a good time.

[Kollision]

As Ruldra pointed out, there will always be someone who's better than you in a certain game and vice-versa.

If you're a shmupper, you automatically do not suck.
Shmuppers are a dying breed, we should be proud of ourselves regardless of skill level.

[sikraiken]

ive got an idea why dont you go and practice until you get good , you know like everyone else does.

If people were interested in getting better at games, they would find the means to do so.

Less talk, more playing.

[gennss]

ive got an idea why dont you go and practice until you get good , you know like everyone else does.

If people were interested in getting better at games, they would find the means to do so.

Less talk, more playing.

I'm at work, relaxing my joystick arm. =D

[clp]

ive got an idea why dont you go and practice until you get good , you know like everyone else does.

If people were interested in getting better at games, they would find the means to do so.

Less talk, more playing.

+ over 9000

[mesh control]

If I didn't have to get up at three in the morning four days a week I would go home and practice a lot more.

[sikraiken]

There are always reasons not to practice. If time is the issue, then you make the most of what you have.

[mesh control]

I'm going to take your advice tonight and play some Futari or Granada.

Maybe a push is all I needed.

[clp]

Its all about how you use your time aswell 30 mins of FOCUSED conscious practice is always far more effective than 4 hr sessions of just waggling a stick etc .

[captpain]

Its all about how you use your time aswell 30 mins of FOCUSED conscious practice is always far more effective than 4 hr sessions of just waggling a stick etc .

I waggle my stick for 4 hours every day.

[renardqueenston]

i'm not exactly great by any means, but i have a lot of fun playing, and that's what truly matters to me. i can maybe 2cc or 3cc progear / mushihime / all that business, and it takes me more than a couple credits to get through dimahoo, but i have a lot of fun playing the games every time, and i'm sure eventually i'm gonna get better at it.

[postmanmanman]

I'm generally pretty awful, but love them nevertheless. My greatest accomplishment is 1cc'ing the first loop of DDP DFK on the iPhone. On Arcade Hard mode, by the way. Not much of an achievement...

[R-Type]

Since I keep flip floping between non shmups and shmups, and never sticking to only a few I tend to be a jack of all trades and master of none. I still love these games with a passion, I'm just not hardcore (by a really huge far distance) like people in this forum.

[apatia77]

I've started playing daioujou and ketsui and omg these games require some supernatural skills past first 2 levels, LOL Very old school and very hardcore. I think I will never get past stage 4.

I think newer games require less skill which is good imo, Deathsmiles, Futari is much easier, new dodonpachi better be easier as I bought j xbox just for this game and don't want to get hit with daioujou difficulty tbh.


EDIT: some people say go and practise but I think some people just lack the skills (me including) imo, I know that with practise I can use less credits etc but no way I will be able to 1cc some of cave games ever as I find myself to be just too inconsistent and no matter the amount of practise I will just suck.

[clp]

I've started playing daioujou and ketsui and omg these games require some supernatural skills past first 2 levels, LOL Very old school and very hardcore. I think I will never get past stage 4.

I think newer games require less skill which is good imo, Deathsmiles, Futari is much easier, new dodonpachi better be easier as I bought j xbox just for this game and don't want to get hit with daioujou difficulty tbh.


EDIT: some people say go and practise but I think some people just lack the skills (me including) imo, I know that with practise I can use less credits etc but no way I will be able to 1cc some of cave games ever as I find myself to be just too inconsistent and no matter the amount of practise I will just suck.

1 there not old school 2 no you never will because you have just told yourself you wont .

[gs68]

Theoretically, anyone with a functional brain and appendages can achieve the level of superplayers. The biggest deciding factor is how much dedication you have to the game. If you stop being passionate about a game, your ability is going to stop increasing.

[Red Robin Yum]

I am decent in older games but I truly need some practice in danmaku games.

[gs68]

I'm the other way around. I can put up quite a fight in danmaku games, but I get screwed over on many a Toaplan game and Raiden I and II.

[RNGmaster]

I'm decent (I think I may be the youngest player to ever get DDP to loop) but my consistency is terrible. I have more off days than actual days of progress. I guess that means, on average, I suck.

[mjclark]

Success=Motivation+Practice+Talent and that goes for guitar playing, cake making and shmups too.
Any two of those three should make for a good player.
The idea that's it's just practice and nothing else is just a bullshit excuse that people make up cos they can't admit that some players might be genuinely better than them full stop.
On the other hand, talent alone isn't enough either as Paul Gascoigne might tell us.
The golfer Gary Player put it very well when he said "The more I practice, the luckier I get."

[Bananamatic]

I'm decent (I think I may be the youngest player to ever get DDP to loop) but my consistency is terrible. I have more off days than actual days of progress. I guess that means, on average, I suck.

How old were you when you did it? I think I looped it when I was 16...and it was a complete fluke

Tbh another thing which matters is self control...I usually get nervous as hell through the entire run and perfecting stage 3 and 4 in practice turns into the st2 boss being an inpenetrable wall.(at least when it comes to no missing it)

[spadgy]

We all suck because we cannot hope to touch Japanese WR in pretty much every shmup.

On that topic, there's this thread courtesy of Plasmo

I hadn't seen that before. Thanks Aliquantic and great work as ever Plasmo. I'd love to get a score on there. My only hope is Raiden IV doubleplay, and only because nobody else plays it!

On topic, I'm pretty sure anybody who sucks can get out of that ability bracket with a simple and ongoing investment of time. I've still got a very long way to go, but with a bit of effort over a not too many years I'm finally pulling away from an ability level that was sometimes rather tiresome to posses. The increase in ability over time certainly progresses exponentially, so just keep throwing credits in.