Japanese gaming is dead

[JoshF]

Have you known of any other business where less than 70% is good enough?

Every entertainment industry.

Regarding Inafune, at least he made Mega Man 9 and 10, his two recent shooters where circle strafing isn't automatic win (Lost Planet.)

[Strider77]

These kind of topics are getting kind of old.

Bayonetta
Vanquish
Resident Evil 5
Initial D
Metal Gear 4
BlazBlue
Ninja Gaiden 2
Street Fighter 4 (Super)
Ninja Blade
Tatsunoku vs Capcom
No More Heroes
Metroid Other M
Mario Galaxy 1 and 2
Wario Shake
New Super Mario
Devil May Cry 4
Firtua Fighter 5
ALL the cave shit

All these I enjoyed.... some more than others but I have all these (except vanquish) and beat all these or played them against friends and had fun. Granted not all on that list are A++++ or perfect a 10 but I don't NEED a game to be a perfect 10 to enjoy a lot. I think a lot of this is coming from folks that are disenchanted with games. In other words it HAS TO BE a triple A game or be a 9 or 10 score wise.... either that or anything with a polygon in it can't possibly be as good as one with sprites syndrome.

There are american titles I play now as well.... just b/c everyone in the USA isn't exclusively playing titles from japan anymore (and that was a long while) everyone is jumping on the bandwagon with this kind of commentary. The US media and the internet are awful, news and views are more trend now than anything else. I don't know how many times I get friends making some blanket statement about x game that is verbatim off the internet, then when I challenge them on "did they experience that 1st hand during the game/" I get told no they haven't actually played it 1st hand.

Now the JRPG on the other hand.... that is getting really long in tooth and there are BILLIONS of soulless ones out there. Square is the worst culprit and leading the pack. I will say Mass Effect gave that genre a good kick in the pants and Japan should take notice of it. The JRPG is the GTA, Madden or FPS of japan. They are made b/c they are mindlessly bought. Look at Dragon Quest on the DS... is it really THAT amazing? Was FF13 that amazing or any of the billions of shitty low tier RPGs that come out month after month.

Japan's obsession with portable gaming now is not one of my favored traits of theirs either.... I would say THAT ONE THING is what's really fueling and holding back great games from Japan if anything.

[Skykid]

These kind of topics are getting kind of old.

Bayonetta
Vanquish
Resident Evil 5
Initial D
Metal Gear 4
BlazBlue
Ninja Gaiden 2
Street Fighter 4 (Super)
Ninja Blade
Tatsunoku vs Capcom
No More Heroes
Metroid Other M
Mario Galaxy 1 and 2
Wario Shake
New Super Mario
Devil May Cry 4
Firtua Fighter 5
ALL the cave shit

Demon's Souls should be on there too.

I can see your point, but that's a handful of games amongst a sea of dirge (mostly from Nintendo and Capcom) and I'd be hardpressed to double the list (keeping the parameters within the last four years.) Some of the merit of those games is debatable too (God Hand >>>> Bayonetta)

[Strider77]

It always been that way though... everyone compares all the 16 bit games ever made to this year. It's not like each year we got 20 to 50 triple A or 10+ games on the SNES. I think the difference then was most didn't need a perfect 10 to be happy and didn't have the shit load of hate on ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that the internet provides.

That's not to say some years weren't better than others but I think a lot tend to leap the collective past and then contrast that on top of only one year of gaming now.

handful of games amongst a sea of dirge

Look at the collective list of games on the SNES, genesis or PS1..... the amount of total crap is a tidal wave of...... crap, compared to the amount of truly great games.

Capcom's alway been the leader of the pack, with most of the year's top notch games coming from them. The dreamcast, saturn, and SNES, they turned out game after game. It's not all THAT different now, the only big changes are polygons and the fact the USA makes decent games that sell well now. I mean you can argue what makes more money and all, but that doesn't make me enjoy a game more or less when the controller is in my hand.

That list i showed I could easily add to:

Armored Core 4 Answer
Mad World
Sin & Punishment 2
Muramasa: The Demon Blade

Just a few more of the top of my head.... I mean it's not hard for me to come up with a list of my favorite games this generation and have most of them from Japanese developers. This japan being the suck hole of gaming is just some internet trend probably started by or at least fueled by IGN, just like with their endless Ikaruga is the only good shooter syndrome. Then all the mindless gamefaq drones following along.

I just don't buy it, I don't see it, and most importantly I don't feel it when playing any of these games. Now I do have fear that these games may not sell well as time goes on and I'll have nothing but FPS, GTA and Madden clones to look forward to. But I have no fear that Japan can turn out some stellar or even some of the best games around.

What I do fear the most is that those who read threads like these will assume it's true b/c they read it on the internet and not buy Bayonetta b/c it's Japanese and must suck. I could see this as a very real scenario, I hear so many opinions based off information of the net versus actuall 1st hand opinions. Skykid I know this is gonna sound like I'm picking on you but honestly it's just the 1st example that shot into my head, you shat all over Inception to the point I would have assumed you saw it. But after all that debating one discovers you never saw it. Talk about judging a book by it's cover.

Don't take that personally but that's the kind of thing i'm talking about... the internet has made it so easy to not give something a shot and maybe finding out you don't feel the same way as that person. Because after all you read it on the internet so it must be true.

(God Hand >>>> Bayonetta)

I don't agree with that at all.... none what so ever. But that's kinda my point in a way... every game has to be better than ANYTHING before it to be good. Bayonetta I put 45 hours into in one week.... I don't even see the point of god hand being better really. Bayonetta was a FANTASTIC game from JAPAN you know.... and to me it destroyed GodHand. Not that I didn't like godhand, I just like bayonetta more.

Even consoles of the past didn't offer you a constant stream of games, that no matter what, the next game in line was better than the last.... that's impossible to have happen. I have seen no game developer manage that. All humans don't see things the same way...

You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.

I blame the internet for so much of this unrest these days... it just fuels discontent most the time above all else.

[Skykid]

Sin & Punishment 2

Oh, definitely this. (Can't believe I forgot that one too )

Like I said, all your points are valid. It's a retrospective thing perhaps, but then you need to put perspective on it: there were far fewer games released during the 8 - 16 bit era's compared to the sheer volume of today. The majority was Japanese produced gaming in its prime, so it's no wonder people remember those era's as having a wealth of inventiveness.

I do remember when the PS1 became huge, and looking around on the store shelves bewildered by all the crap in my face. That for me was the precursor to what we have now, only now the Japanese are trying to emulate that same crap, and shipping out IP's like DMC to Ninja Theory.

[Strider77]

In simplest terms I think it's more accurate to say american games don't suck now, rather than japanese games suck now.

But I do think it's very american to say, "now that we don't suck at making games, you (japan) must suck at it". The media and journalism in the USA these days is a joke... it's more for entertainment than non biased information provided for you, as the viewer, to make a educated judgement call on your own. But I don't think it's only the USA... it's (the USA) just dropped to the level of the internet as far as the media goes REALLY quickly.

[professor ganson]

I only play Japanese games, and there are way too many quality games for me to keep up with. Maybe mainstream gamers who play Halo can relate to the topic at hand; I don't begin to see where this is coming from.

[Rob]

In simplest terms I think it's more accurate to say american games don't suck now,

I haven't played many PC games from the past 20 years either.

[Strider77]

No actually I haven't, I played star control 2, doom, decent and marathon. Well that and the falcom stuff along with alot of C64 and Apple crap (Ultima ect). But most of that was out of my price league back when I was a kid. I didn't really own a REAL PC until I was.... maybe 25? Not anything that could run anything at a respectable level anyway. I use to drool at the amiga displays at the local mall.

This thread is console based though.... my post were focused on that. PC gaming is a different beast where I think the US and Europe were the leaders.

I'm not hating on US games either but I am a console gamer for better or worse and it wasn't till this generation that I actually have a decent selection of american games on the shelf. There were exceptions in the past like wipeout, smash tv ect.

[D]

Japan should start porting their arcade games or face my fists!
I´m not even going to say which ones.
port
port
port
Japan is like a spoiled kid who does not even know how lucky he/she is.

[neorichieb1971]

When American games sucked I thought the Japanese sector was Godly. Now the American sector is doing better at making money from games I personally don't like that much and the Japanese folks are copying the American folks, I am pretty much dumb struck where my next purchase is coming from.

Out of the games mentioned most of the games I would like to try are the Nintendo ones. But since Wii doesn't have HDMI yet and since it doesn't have upscaling I am pretty much discontent buying a Wii due to the lifespan of the machine and the amount of games coming out. I don't know why Nintendo don't upgrade their machine even if its half assed, or make an upgrade option available with HDMI. Its not asking much.

Also, out of the games listed above, most have American influences in them. Big guns, militia.. Not much in the way of magic, samurai, anime influenced stuff.

A better comparison would be to compare the Ridge Racers and Tekkens of yesteryear to those of now.

Ridge Racer 1-4 - Success
Ridge Racer 7 - Not so good

Tekken 1-3 - Success
Tekken 6 - Not so good

On todays standards, those franchises fell a bit flat. They do not demand the same attention as before. If Metal gear went up against Grand Theft auto today, we all know which would sell the most. Even if the GTA was inferior on score, content and just about everything. Japan has lost its pulling power. I blame mostly the Xbox. Back in the past up until PS2/DC/GC all 3 players were Japanese and had a 8 month head start. That doesn't exist anymore.

[Skykid]

I'm not hating on US games either but I am a console gamer for better or worse and it wasn't till this generation that I actually have a decent selection of american games on the shelf. There were exceptions in the past like wipeout, smash tv ect.

Ouch!

Wipeout = Psygnosis (UK)

[TrevHead (TVR)]

What Japan does better then anyone else is arcade games especially 2D games, From shmups, FTGs and platformers they have everything in these games down to a T. Even their indie (doujin) games rock.
Apart from Cave i adore Capcom, Konami, Square and Taito for their classic games. Plus Vanillaware for their gorgoeus 2D games (need more of these).

There are many types of gamers out there, not every game sololy likes to play FPS and TPS games nonstop. And would pay good cash for good quality games in their prefered genres if they did things correctly. (kinda like the music biz having different genres apart from Pop music). Unfortunatly in this console generation with DL games they have shot themselves in the foot due to all the very low priced DL games. This has spoilt western gamers who think all 2d games (or any 3d game with less then cutting edge graphics that cost a shit load to make) is only worth $10 because they can buy something simlar for $1. For Eg some gamers are allready moaning that Sonic4 ep1 is a rippoff as its priced at 1200 wiipoints and not 800. Which is pocket change imo.

This value for money BS has got totally out of hand with gamers judging how good a game is by how MB the game data is, forcing some devs to bulk out their games with nothing just to get the MB up (its only red book audio and texture data anyway FFS) Then the BS continues ingame aswell with devs adding online multiplayer to games that dont need it. Or bulking out their games with crap just to get the gameplay time upto as many hours as possible.

And back on to Capcom, WTF are they giving their staples DMC and Mega man to western dev houses when those are the sort of games they do best themselves. let western devs make games the west are best at and vise versa. Allready were getting reports that mega man universe has shitty gameplay with the characters not controlling properlly. Still Capcom are not really known for managing their software houses very well are they? IE Clover studios (okami, viewtifull joe 1,2 and godhand)

[Skykid]

Dunno about Japanese gaming, but Castlevania is dead:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=90

[TrevHead (TVR)]

i havnt read that thread fully but ive heard the lastest 2D Caslevania was shite with reused GBA / DS sprites that are all blown up and look very ugly. BTW if ur into playing doujins, I just heard that theres a new Touhouvania in the works which hopes to fix the 1sts shortcomings. (whatever they were as ive yet to play it, but it does look to be a fun game atleast)

EDIT: there might be a demand for classic 2d games but they still have to be good and not any old freeware/ indie standard pile of crap. Hopefully the industry will learn from Harmony of dispair. Still think publishers could charge $20 - $30 for some of their DL games, that way we should see better quality games been made. An alternative is what sega are doing with sonic 4, episodic releases FTW!

[Skykid]

i havnt read that thread fully but ive heard the lastest 2D Caslevania was shite with reused GBA / DS sprites that are all blown up and look very ugly. BTW if ur into playing doujins, I just heard that theres a new Touhouvania in the works which hopes to fix the 1sts shortcomings. (whatever they were as ive yet to play it, but it does look to be a fun game atleast)

You don't need to read the thread fully, you might just want to look at the comment regarding the latest Western-Vania. I had the misfortune of playing it tonight.

Never again.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

yea i just went back and read the whole thread (its not that bid so ive no excuse lol) and I can feel for you mate. Nothings worse then seeing a once great series that youve allot of fond memories of going doing the shitter. Especially in the way HOD has done it, IE selling itself as the game 2D purists have been waiting for, just aload of false promises and broken lies / dreams

[Skykid]

yea i just went back and read the whole thread (its not that bid so ive no excuse lol) and I can feel for you mate. Nothings worse then seeing a once great series that youve allot of fond memories of going doing the shitter. Especially in the way HOD has done it, IE selling itself as the game 2D purists have been waiting for, just aload of false promises and broken lies / dreams

It's a load of absolute cock, absolutely as I expected.

[iluvmonsterz]

artistic integrity was ditched awhile ago, everything produced lately is derivitave or a sequel......gaming grows to be more about the BOTTOM LINE with every sports car or 1000 dollar a hour hooker that game producer X buys. as soon as gaming became "mainstream" i knew we were in for it. i watched this happen in the skateboarding insutry in the early nineties and its happening on a much larger scale with gaming. thanks NINTENDO and microsoft! the internet gaming scene rules and my grandma loves her wii fit!!!!

[Strider77]

It's a load of absolute cock, absolutely as I expected.

What was wrong with it exactly? I'm curious on it. If it's at all like god of war 3... close to it, then I want to play it.

[Skykid]

It's a load of absolute cock, absolutely as I expected.

What was wrong with it exactly? I'm curious on it. If it's at all like god of war 3... close to it, then I want to play it.

Knock yourself out. It's no way near as good as GOW 3 though, that game was ace.

[Zaarock]

Dunno about Japanese gaming, but Castlevania is dead:

Castlevania: Harmony of Despair did a lot of things right and they're probably going to make more stuff like it because of how well it has sold.. the first DLC that just came out is overpriced though which is a bad sign. Disappointing that they're handling the DLC and matchmaking so badly after the game started off so well.

[linko9]

Sorry for topic derailment, but do you have sales numbers on Harmony of Despair?

As for the actual topic, I've always drastically preferred japanese-developed games, and there aren't that many western-developed console games that I really enjoy (main exceptions are Rare in the N64 days, and Retro Studios on the MP trilogy). The new western games still don't really appeal to me, and I don't really see the foundation for all of this doomsday rhetoric about japanese developers. As far as I can tell, there are still plenty of great games coming out of Japan, and plenty of innovation, though obviously not as much as when the medium was younger (should be obvious why). RPGs are the exception for me I guess, I generally don't like the direction RPGs are going in in Japan, but there are still plenty of excellent ones coming out, so I'm not really complaining.

[neorichieb1971]

Microsoft killed Japanese gaming. Online killed arcades, Online made a handful of genres the only big sellers, online killed diversity. Microsoft also released the first successful American console in 20 years.

Online gaming has a lot to answer for and Microsoft are the kings of it. You won't find much like the Last Guardian or GOW3 on the Xbox because all their gaming is structured around their retarded Xbox live service.

[Skykid]

Microsoft killed Japanese gaming. Online killed arcades, Online made a handful of genres the only big sellers, online killed diversity. Microsoft also released the first successful American console in 20 years.

Sony did their own damage too.

[Elixir]

Ignore the troll. Microsoft tried their best in opening up to the Japanese market, and there are still Japanese 360 games coming out for the console.

Sony just have a massive advantage as they're on their own turf.

[Kaiser]

Ignore the troll. Microsoft tried their best in opening up to the Japanese market, and there are still Japanese 360 games coming out for the console.

Sony just have a massive advantage as they're on their own turf.

I gotta agree here with that. Speaking of turfs, the one in poland is hilarious. How to put it, since Nintendo and M$ shat on the country entirely (M$ started xbox live here 4 years after launch or is it 3 BUT STILL), sony took the entire turf first. Time for some history that is unnecessary.

Originally one company in poland wanted to manufacture NES however nintendo said "Fuck no" to that so selling NES was out of question, so FAMICLONES were born due the rejection and so on, gaming was more or less born (it was extremely niche before that, few had C64/A500). After famiclones, PSX came and somehow took the turf in poland. Even xbox and gamecube weren't as popular in poland during the 6th gen era. 7th gen is a bit different, PS3 sold well here, 360 too.... then many were dissapointed by M$ shifting our country with lack of xbox live etc. and Wii? It isn't even popular here. We got PSN pre-paid cards, Xbox live is starting up here while Nintendo still shits on us when it comes to official support. Sorry for writing so much unnecessary stuff. Sony did shift us too in beginning of 7th gen due lack of any good way to pay with credit cards and there were no pre-paid cards. INFACT DUE THEIR GLOBAL blocking of non-credit cards, it was far worse. Until the pre-paid cards came April this year.

[Drum]

Microsoft killed Japanese gaming. Online killed arcades, Online made a handful of genres the only big sellers, online killed diversity. Microsoft also released the first successful American console in 20 years.

Online gaming has a lot to answer for and Microsoft are the kings of it. You won't find much like the Last Guardian or GOW3 on the Xbox because all their gaming is structured around their retarded Xbox live service.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[neorichieb1971]

Nothing is wrong with me. If you don't agree with my opinion then say so, but to suggest something is wrong with me means I will probably think something is wrong with you. Is there?

All I am saying is that when Japan controlled the arcades (when arcades were a big business) they controlled the larger portion of the industry as a whole. Microsoft pretty much turned that on its head. Since the Xbox's biggest positive is its online features I have made the statement above. Its just my belief. I'm not trolling. There are a lot of members on this site I only expect 5% to agree with 5% of what I said

[agustusx]

All I am saying is that when Japan controlled the arcades (when arcades were a big business) they controlled the larger portion of the industry as a whole. Microsoft pretty much turned that on its head.

Arcades were having issues well before Microsoft released a console. Also lot of people were complaining about arcade ports as console games during the Saturn era, this was a signal that change would be needed to satisfy gamers . I think consumers made the decision of what they would buy and others just accommodated the demand. Sega had a great online console gaming before anyone, Microsoft just made a better Seganet.