The state of Japanese gaming

[Elixir]

Do you have the courage to play right throuh Xenogears and face the truth about this game?

I would have played it at the time if Squaresoft actually released it in PAL areas.

Yes, Xenogears aged poorly, but that's because the 3D is now obsolete. Newer 3D games make the older 3D games look bad because we compare them. Those 2D jRPGs from the SNES era remain the same, since 2D can't age. There have been a fair number of 2D games over the last 10 years, but most of them have either been a) trrying to recreate the past, like Megaman 9 b) trying to be "artistic" like Braid or c) end up looking like a total flash game. It's by console limitations in which the games look the way they do.

Xenogears didn't even look all that good when it came out originally, but the graphics don't seem to matter. The plot was: gundam vs. gundam ~story here~. Dragon Quest sells the same plot yearly (boy saves world) and the graphics are nothing startling, but it's more of the same and people like that.

Now you have PS1 Classics on the PSN store which you can play on your PSP (in 1:1, which is nice) or on a HDTV with an insanely blurry filter--unless you go out of your way to use an upscaler. You have Virtual Console as well as XBLA, so we're not by any means trying to forget the past.

I think the "Japanese" side is more or less: make western styled games (this isn't necessarily a bad thing, see Demon's Souls, God Hand, Dead Rising, and other Japanese-made western styled games), or recreate what has already worked in the past. That isn't to say that new material won't come out which is also good, though, and Resonance of Fate is a good example.

Anyway yeah, what the hell was my point in my replying? Oh yeah, claiming that a massively acclaimed RPG is awful is absurd. It worked at the time.

[Rob]

Yes, Xenogears aged poorly, but that's because the 3D is now obsolete.

You don't have to look at anything but the battle system. Playing the game is awful.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Actually I kinda like the PSX 3D (on a CRT, without the PS2 texture smoothing nonsense). Xenogears' 3D grahics are astonishingly detailed and credible, on the PSX matched only by Silent Hill in this regard. Currently I'm playing Persona 2: Innocent Sin, a game powered by similar engine and it's quite enjoyable. No sir, Xenogears is a bad game due to some retarded design decisions. I could elaborate, but it wouldn't sound half as atrocious as it plays.

[JoshF]

But it's got animu and robots and mechanics are irrelevant in gaming's laziest genre so it's great.

[Limbrooke]

Do you have the courage to play right through Xenogears and face the truth about this game?

If by finishing that does mean beating disc 1, since I'd say that's pretty much the end of actual game-play. I'm not sure what will happen first: completing Xenogears or moving to the Moon. I'm sure one is bound to happen one day. I'm close to finishing it for what it's worth but disc 2 (see: the detachment zone) really zapped the experience.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Contrary to the myth, there is "the gameplay" on disc 2 too (not that you give a damn). Still, I enjoyed sitting through the cutscenes more than the dungeoning.

[BulletMagnet]

You don't have to look at anything but the battle system. Playing the game is awful.

QFT. Once you learn a new "deathblow" move, it's the only thing you'll ever use until you learn the next one.

[Limbrooke]

Contrary to the myth, there is "the gameplay" on disc 2 too (not that you give a damn). Still, I enjoyed sitting through the cutscenes more than the dungeoning.

Not that I give a damn? Good assumption. I gave a damn until I hit disc 2, at which point the game and my major involvement ended and the nonsense that is 30 minutes of text followed by some attempt to have actual human interface pardon hitting X during the cutscenes.

I thought the game was alright and playable until disc 2. I had some idea what was going on and the story that point seemed like it was going somewhere. After that disc 2 got bogged down with filler trying to close-up the remaining story with more garbage than necessary and just wasting time. I liken disc 2 to being put in solitary confinement for looking at the Tuesday lunch special the wrong way. So, you sit isolated, detached and alone for 2 weeks until the guards come to the feeding hole blasting you with light asking if you can solve that days suduko in five minutes. Problem is you aren't accustomed to the light anymore and it takes time to get back to speed. The 5 minutes pass and while you have no clue what just went on, the guards close up shop and it's lights out for another 2 weeks and the whole mess is repeated again.

I say now after 4 years of trying to complete the game that it's simply not in the cards for some time to come. Any concern or passion I had died long ago and to be honest I'd rather not sit through another 1/2 hour cutscene (see: the hole) to be awoke to some go to Point B from A, defeat this boss using a gear... blah blah bullshit. The game itself to me seems like it was overdue (long production) and overbudget and Square had enough and told the clown squad to get the shit done and on 2 discs as promised ASAP OIYA. This was after disc 1 was done and just as disc 2 was getting under-way. So, they pulled a hack job of filling 20 hours of remaining text to scroll on a screen with some dude too young to be sitting in a rocking chair underneath a spinning medallion. If I want to play a game with a medallion in it spinning or otherwise that actually entertains, I'll fire up Giga Wing and it's 8 second per stage loading.

It's no wonder Xenogears was a one shot deal, Square had enough and the evidence is black and white. The game wasn't popular when it came out and if you want to attribute that to low-print numbers go ahead, nobody cared about it otherwise. Why Namco were dumb enough to repeat the folly is a mystery. They too got fed up and dropped the idea of a full series even though it took them 6 years to realize it. If you like it, go nuts, you probably also enjoy medieval torture too but unlike the guy I quoted I won't pass judgement just because it seems signed and delievered.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Wikipedia:

Overall, Xenogears was well-received by critics, with a 91% rating on Game Rankings and a score of 83 out of 100 at Metacritic. It was voted the 16th best video game of all time by readers of Famitsu in 2006. A commercial success, Xenogears has sold 1.19 million copies worldwide as of March 31, 2003. Due to these high sales, the game was re-released as a Greatest Hits title in December 2003.

[ZacharyB]

I'm glad the spirit of the small development teams of the past lives on today in XBox Live Indie Games and Steam, or even in simple independent PC games. This way, there are countless potential developers. Technology has also increased to the point where anyone can make a game.

Does anyone know how long it took to make the average NES platformer or shmup, in comparison to modern games?

While the state of modern gaming is tied to the big names in the business, their game-making practices are dictated by cost and profit. Smaller developers may be a little more passionate and less willing to change for an increase in profit. It's easier for a small speedboat to change course than it is for an oil tanker.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm glad the spirit of the small development teams of the past lives on today in XBox Live Indie Games and Steam, or even in simple independent PC games. This way, there are countless potential developers. Technology has also increased to the point where anyone can make a game.

Does anyone know how long it took to make the average NES platformer or shmup, in comparison to modern games?

While the state of modern gaming is tied to the big names in the business, their game-making practices are dictated by cost and profit. Smaller developers may be a little more passionate and less willing to change for an increase in profit. It's easier for a small speedboat to change course than it is for an oil tanker.

Yeah, but most indie games suck balls.

[BulletMagnet]

Yeah, but most indie games suck balls.

So do most professional ones.

[evil_ash_xero]

Yeah, but most indie games suck balls.

So do most professional ones.

ha ha

But really, how many indie games aren't total rip-offs of other games, or are actually really good??? I can't think of many.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Most of everything is mediocre at best.

I thought the game was alright and playable until disc 2.

I for one thought it was broken from the very beginning, but then again, "enjoyed sitting through the cutscenes more than the dungeoning" doesn't mean I enjoyed them big time. They were just lesser evil in my book.

[Khan]

Do you have the courage to play right throuh Xenogears and face the truth about this game?

I'm curious as to why think this is an awful game?

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm not poet enough to express how fucking gash Xenogears is. I'm talking the playable parts, not the cutscenes and jabber. A mere list of design flaws wouldn't cut it. A sum of its broken parts really is something special. Those who recommend it these days as an actual game to play through, deserve to play it themselves.

[Elixir]

I don't get it. I didn't play Xenogears much (4 hours) but what's so bad about it? Saying that it's bad, after being asked why it's bad, doesn't help.

[Limbrooke]

Wikipedia:

Overall, Xenogears was well-received by critics, with a 91% rating on Game Rankings and a score of 83 out of 100 at Metacritic. It was voted the 16th best video game of all time by readers of Famitsu in 2006. A commercial success, Xenogears has sold 1.19 million copies worldwide as of March 31, 2003. Due to these high sales, the game was re-released as a Greatest Hits title in December 2003.

Nice omission:

...with 910,000 of those copies being shipped in Japan and 280,000 abroad.

A commercial success of nearly 1 million of the 1.2 million being sold in Japan (prior to GH/P[2003] pressings) where anything parading robots, cartoons, and RPG all in one package are destined to be lapped up by every gamer over there (with a PS). No wonder Famitsu gave it such a high rating, hahah.

Yeah, I knew two other guys and still only known one of them to have owned a copy. I remember of all the EB Games/CompuCentres/etc.. I went to and only a handful of them had copies and for a long while afterwards. A few years later when I tried to get a copy only one store had it, used, and beat to shit (a good sign). I had to buy a new copy from the US as the disc froze up unless brand-new as I discovered with the used one. Perhaps it didn't sell well or have many copies located to Canada but I got and still have the impression nobody knew shit about this game around here. And yeah, a success you cite? It sold 1.19 million copies in 5 years. Compare that to other Square games from around the time:

Within three days of its release in Japan, the game had sold 2.3 million copies.

In the game's debut weekend in North America, it sold 330,000 copies...

As of March 31, 2003, the game had shipped 8.15 million copies worldwide: 3.7 million in Japan and 4.45 million abroad...

Parasite Eve has sold over 1.9 million copies as of February of 2004, with 1.05 million sold in Japan alone and 0.89 million sold in North America.

To say this was commercial success on it's own is fair, but looking at other titles from the same developer publisher one whom sold more copies in North America in 3 days than over 5 years, another which sold nearly 7 times the number of copies worldwide over nearly the same period and another, non-flagship title like Xenogears which actually achieved Platinum status in Japan and nearly tripled it's North American sales. Nice effort though.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't get it. I didn't play Xenogears much (4 hours) but what's so bad about it? Saying that it's bad, after being asked why it's bad, doesn't help.

Have you got out of the desert mine dungeon with Bart? If you reached that point without any major complaints, maybe you have what it takes to enjoy Xenogears. I don't have it.
It's not like I can't explain what I disliked about it, but it would be like explaining what's wrong with having sand in your meal, or not being able to scratch a place itchy as hell. I just don't feel like brooding over that trauma of a gaming experience at the moment. The game's not worth it. Certainly not now, when pretty much everybody can play it. One of the biggest elephants in the room is right there. Go ahead and face it if you dare. I suspect people who claim they couldn't get into it due to the crappy US localisation or dated graphics of not being honest with themselves. I can't imagine any sane person having fun with this game.

[ryu]

iirc the game has a god awful battle system that makes it obsolete and every random encounter a drag

[ROBOTRON]

Enlighten me. What exactly is an "action game"? Is it a game that includes action? Could your daft generalisation encompass every single game ever made? Does it not, therefore, completely invalidate your entire point?

generalisation???

i don't know what that word means so i'm afraid your entire post is invalid.

Wait, so because you don't understand the meaning of a certain word and are apparently incapable of using Google, you believe my post is void?

Wow. Those are some awesome debating skills you've got right there.

Only a zealot would point out my mistake of not saying action platformer, randy...the kind of prick that would tell you that you misspelled "generalization" , oh master of the king's english and debating skills.

[BulletMagnet]

Watch the tone in here.

[E. Randy Dupre]

You might also want to make sure you know what you're talking about before you start making claims about other people's spelling. 'Generalisation' *is* the English spelling. "Generalization"? American.

Who's the prick now?

Oh, and you clumped "action games" with RPGs, so no, it wasn't at all clear that you were talking about "action platformers". Given that they're two entirely different genres, and all.

[ROBOTRON]

You might also want to make sure you know what you're talking about before you start making claims about other people's spelling. 'Generalisation' *is* the English spelling. "Generalization"? American.

Who's the prick now?

we both are...because we continue to mouth off even after a mod has pretty much told us to shut up.

go pound sand, randy.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Ironically, I don't know what that means

[evil_ash_xero]

"Go Pound Sand" meaning:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/go-pound-sand.html


I had to look it up. Never heard this phrase before either.