London Drama

[BulletMagnet]

But most of the time when he mentions the terrorist attacks, he ties it in directly to our pursuit of terrorists, not blaming other world leaders.

I haven't kept very close track of every single remark he's made, but a lot of the references to 9-11 and whatnot that I've heard made by him and his fellow leaders (I assume you heard Karl Rove's recent remarks?) have been to demonize those (esp. Democrats) who openly disagree with him on the way he does things, by calling them "soft on terrorism" or saying that they "hate America."

This really is off-topic though, if this is to continue it oughta be taken elsewhere.

[dave4shmups]

Both attacks on the WTC came long before we even touched Iraq. Regardless of whether Bush is at the cause of this, he hasn't forced any other countries to send in troops. Naming Bush as the cause for something this outrageous is simply displacing the blame.

There is no point in trying to blame these attacks on anyone but the ingrates who devise them, because there is no excuse for such a horrid act in the first place. Let's say Bush and Blair discovered Al Qaeda's headquarters and personally stole all their oil, money, and women, sliced off their shriveled Al Qaedan wankers in their sleep, and assassinated half of their officers. It still doesn't justify the brutal murder of innocent civilians in the name of a political/religious cause. Why take any of the blame away from the bastards that do these things? Isn't it an insult to the victims and their families when you do so?

There's a BIG difference between contributing causes and excuses. I NEVER said that there was any moral excuse for these attacks, there simply isn't; yes the terrorists are ultimately most responsible.

And yes, we were attacked on 9/11 before the Iraq war started, but that was partly due to the fact that we pumped weapons into Afghanistan for years during the 1980's, most of which were funnelled to the most fundamentalist groups fighting the Soviets, via Pakistani foreign intelligence, and then just left the place to rot as a stateless vacum.

[dave4shmups]

been trying to contact a friend in the UK.
Just saw him sign on...then sign off on AIM.

So at least I know he's ok now.

Phone service must be ridiculous.
So I expect that our other English members might have trouble finding an internet connection.


In any case, my condolences and sympathies go out to England.
7 freaking bombs in less than 12 hours is rather frightening.

Glad to hear! I still haven't heard anything from my aunt. If I was in London right now, I honestly think I'd head out to a small town in the English countryside for a while.

Has anyone on this site tried to contact relatives/friends in Britain via email? That might work better.

And I apologize for throwing this off topic; I wasn't trying to be insensitive to this horrible tragedy or anyone connected to it. I'm just opinionated as hell; guess I have to many of my ancestor Harry Truman's genes in me!

[Elixir]

People are saying it's related to the olympics.

They also hit the wrong country.

Wrong, it's been confirmed that London will be hosting the Olympics in 2012.

My condolences to the people affected by this nonsense.

And this is apparent how?

[PFG 9000]

BulletMagnet: My bottom line is that when somebody uses unjust human suffering to further an unrelated agenda, it's wrong. If Bush uses past terrorist acts to appeal to our human sense of revenge and sympathy in an attempt to win support for future action, I think that's wrong. When somebody else does the same, i.e. uses this morning's events to attack Bush, I think it's equally wrong.

dave4shmups: I did acknowledge this concept in one of my above posts. However, I think it's the fact that we've meddled in Middle Eastern affairs, period, and NOT the manner of our doing so, that's angered Middle Eastern terrorists. While I certainly don't pretend to be an expert on the issue, I took a course specifically on Middle Eastern terrorism at a rather liberal college (aint they all these days? ), and I was taught that the source of Middle Eastern discontent towards the Western world is the fact that we don't stick to affairs within our own borders. They want us to have nothing to do with them, and until we completely withdraw all of our influence from their world, they will continue these attacks.

[dave4shmups]

BulletMagnet: My bottom line is that when somebody uses unjust human suffering to further an unrelated agenda, it's wrong. If Bush uses past terrorist acts to appeal to our human sense of revenge and sympathy in an attempt to win support for future action, I think that's wrong. When somebody else does the same, i.e. uses this morning's events to attack Bush, I think it's equally wrong.

dave4shmups: I did acknowledge this concept in one of my above posts. However, I think it's the fact that we've meddled in Middle Eastern affairs, period, and NOT the manner of our doing so, that's angered Middle Eastern terrorists. While I certainly don't pretend to be an expert on the issue, I took a course specifically on Middle Eastern terrorism at a rather liberal college (aint they all these days? ), and I was taught that the source of Middle Eastern discontent towards the Western world is the fact that we don't stick to affairs within our own borders. They want us to have nothing to do with them, and until we completely withdraw all of our influence from their world, they will continue these attacks.

Fair enough. I also took a course on Middle Eastern politics, and I agree with you about their not wanting us to meddle in their affairs. A LOT of that meddling, comes in the form of unconditional US support for Israel, and the oppressive Saudi Monarchy.

There are also Quranic injunctions against stationing non-Muslim troops in Muslim countries. We ought to pull out of Iraq, and have troops from Muslim nations take over the job.

Of course telling ANY US Presidential Administration, Republican OR Democratic, to quit meddling in the affairs of other countries, so that this crap can stop, and so that our soldiers aren't forced to play "Globo-Cop" is like trying to tell the Pope that birth control might actually be a good idea in a lot of countries.

[FatCobra]

You UK Guys have it hard enough when it comes to videogames, you guys don't need this terrorist crap on top of it.

I am thinking of joining the Air Force, but now I have doubts because if our idiot president Bush still have troops over there, chances are likely I may get shipped over there as well, and that would S-U-C-K.

I wish they would just take the damn Iraqui oil and leave that poor country alone. I'm sick of this Middle East crap and the rising prices that no-one but the gas-guzzling SUV owners can afford.

[PFG 9000]

I am thinking of joining the Air Force, but now I have doubts because if our idiot president Bush still have troops over there, chances are likely I may get shipped over there as well, and that would S-U-C-K.

I wish they would just take the damn Iraqui oil and leave that poor country alone. I'm sick of this Middle East crap and the rising prices that no-one but the gas-guzzling SUV owners can afford.

Didn't you just contradict you own argument? If this was about the oil like so many leftists have been claiming, then why have gas prices risen? Why have we not taken the oil already, when we could do so so easily? Why did we pull our troops out of Iraq in the first Gulf War when we were within two hours of taking the oil fields?

[FatCobra]

I am thinking of joining the Air Force, but now I have doubts because if our idiot president Bush still have troops over there, chances are likely I may get shipped over there as well, and that would S-U-C-K.

I wish they would just take the damn Iraqui oil and leave that poor country alone. I'm sick of this Middle East crap and the rising prices that no-one but the gas-guzzling SUV owners can afford.

Didn't you just contradict you own argument? If this was about the oil like so many leftists have been claiming, then why have gas prices risen? Why have we not taken the oil already, when we could do so so easily? Why did we pull our troops out of Iraq in the first Gulf War when we were within two hours of taking the oil fields?

Didn't realize that I contradicting myself. Oops. What bugs me is that why do we still have troops over there when we have already captured the evil dicator and we plan on leaving the oil alone? The Europeans probably need it more anyway.

Still, that sucks with the London attack. Hope none of you UK people are hurt. You know the world has gone crazy when crazy terrorists hijack airplanes and crash them into treasured landmarks while there's still tons of people in them and they blow themselves up in the name of Allah or whatever crazy God that convinces them to tie bombs around their waists and blow themselves up in a crowded room. Insane!!!

[SPACE HARRIER]

It's sad to see they always attack harmless people.

We live in a SICK WORLD,I hope someday we all live in PEACE.........

[black mariah]

hardly.. i think theres a large gap between people getting kicks out of fighting and people being delerious with religion suicidebombing a subway...

Not really. It's the same junior-high mentality. "I'm going to go stir up shit, 'cause I'm right and they're wrong so on you and fuck you if you get in the way 'cause I AM THE ONLY ONE THAT IS RIGHT!"

All extremists should be shot in the face.

[Icarus]

I finally managed to contact my sister at 6pm after spending the whole afternoon tying up the phoneline, and was relieved to hear both herself and her fiancee are okay.

True to form, they were both late for work in the morning, and totally oblivious to what was going on, managed to board the Tube at Tooting Broadway (ten minutes from where they live) not long after the second bomb exploded - around about the time when the transport police thought a power surge tripped the breakers on the train line. They only found out what was really going on when they were taken on a major time-consuming detour, for their own safety.

Her phone was pretty much off the hook all afternoon - as was everyone else's in London - from people phoning to find out what was going on, which was why I couldn't get through to her. Turns out everyone at their workplace - a magazine publishers near the city centre - requested early leave to head home, since the commute takes forever usually, and I just caught her as she stepped through her front door.

In any case, she's okay. Thanks for the kind words eveyone. I sincerely hope the rest of our forum members residing in London, and their families, are all safe and well. My heart goes out to the many victims of this senseless, needless, scathing terrorist attack.

[freddiebamboo]

Good to hear everything is ok

Lets hope this is the last of it for awhile, Londons been taking too much terrorism for too many years

[Cthulhu]

Glad to hear that your friends and family members are okay. I don't care who did this or why it was done - it shouldn't have happened, and I hope those responsible are caught and brought to justice.

[IlMrm]

My deepest condolences and sympathies to the victims' families. I was watching TV when the special reports broke in. I had the same sickening feeling that I got in the morning of 9/11.

Find the bastards in their caves and put a Tomahawk missile up their collective asses.

I am thinking of joining the Air Force, but now I have doubts because if our idiot president Bush still have troops over there, chances are likely I may get shipped over there as well, and that would S-U-C-K.

And FatCobra can push the launch button. The Air Force and the Navy is the safest branch to join in a war where the majority of fighting is confined to an urban environment. I don't know if the US has AF bases in Iraq, or if they are flying out of Saudi Arabia.

[Damocles]

Seriously...who in their right mind would launch terrorist attacks on Britain? C'mon....those hard-nosed chaps withstood Hitler's V2 attacks....repeatedly. Then again....Churchill's not around.....

[Dylan1CC]

Best regards to folks in London and the UK. Especially those directly effected by it.

[Dylan1CC]

I am sorry I neglected this thread, work was just awful today.

I finally managed to contact my sister at 6pm after spending the whole afternoon tying up the phoneline, and was relieved to hear both herself and her fiancee are okay.

That is very good news indeed.

[sven666]

Seriously...who in their right mind would launch terrorist attacks on Britain? C'mon....those hard-nosed chaps withstood Hitler's V2 attacks....repeatedly. Then again....Churchill's not around.....

ah churchill.. the man who single handedly defeated the 3rd reich with just a walkingstick

i must say this is an interesting thread, very down to earth and civil, usually on forums this kind of thread derails into a mess of "they had it coming" vs "lets nuke those motherf***ers".

it's nice to see so many cool people on the forum

[PFG 9000]

Agreed!

Also, it's good to hear that (so far) everybody's loved ones are safe. But it would be nice to see that "London shmuppers: Report" thread with more than one post.

[LUNardei]

It's incredible what hate can do...
And as italian I'm really worried about the future.

[SheSaidDutch]

I hope everyone inthe London area and anyone affected is okay.

killing what does it prove

[Stormowl]

glad to hear our UK members are ok. lets hope those bastards are brought to justice quickly.

[Turrican]

It's incredible what hate can do...
And as italian I'm really worried about the future.

Me too. My mom takes the train every week to go to work

Our government embarked on this reckless adventure besides the vast majority of people were against it.

[DEL]

A colleague of mine has come up with a new 'lone bomber' theory;

Using Kings Cross Station as the centre point, a lone bomber could have placed bags with timers on trains east and west of Kings Cross Stn, then left Kings Cross and taken the bus down through Russell Square, perhaps blowing himself up with the top deck of the bus. This sequence of events is possible for a lone bomber with 3 bombs set for 8.51am and the Russell Sq Bus bomb happening almost an hour later.

I haven't double checked this theory, but it sounds feasible.

[TGK]

it's nice to see so many cool people on the forum

As long as we don't venture into the shmup chat board and make a thread that has anything to do with game resolution

[TGK]

It's incredible what hate can do...
And as italian I'm really worried about the future.

Me too. My mom takes the train every week to go to work

Our government embarked on this reckless adventure besides the vast majority of people were against it.

Did your family look into getting a car? If you don't have to travel uphill a lot then almost any car would work reliably. I am not sure how expensive gas is there, but you can adjust the family's schedule so that a car serves everyone, saving bus/train fee for the whole family.