How many people own PC gamepads/joysticks?

[PainAmplifier]

And regarding controllers, I don't know why people bitch so much about the X360 dpad. I find it a lot better than the Dualshock 2 Dpad, for example.

X360: The design of the pad itself, means that you tend to 'grasp' the controller holding it so that it makes contact with the spaces between thumb and forefinger as well as resting somewhat in your palms. For people with mid to large hands this results in a very comfortable grip when using the left thumbstick constantly. As say in most 3D games these days.

If you have mid to small hands, reaching the DPad can be a stretch due to this design. For smaller hands, the worse this is due to needing to reshift your grip in ways the controller feels very poorly in. The larger the hand, the more this becomes merely uncomfortable instead of frustratingly irritating.

And then we get to the DPad itself. (Mechanically) It's face plate is a excessively smooth wave type shape and the underlying 'action' is 'sloppy' enough that it's near impossible to reliably select a cardinal direction without also unintentionally hitting one of the adjacent diagonal directionals. In some cases, depending on how small your hand is and how much you need to stretch your thumb it's entirely possible that you may end up pressing an adjacent cardinal direction entirely without intending to!

PS3: The now venerable DS3 design means that you don't really 'grab' the controller for an optimal grip. Instead it's more of a fingertip hold between your smallest fingers, the palm of your hand, and the 'horns' of the controller. While at the same time your ring and index fingers provide the remaining balance/control that allows you to use the buttons and sticks in a way that you *personally* find acceptable. Yes, this means that each person's grip is slightly different on the controller due to hand size, comfort or even alternating based on whether the game uses the stick or the DPad more. The more 'generic' design means that just about anyone can find an acceptable (if not optimal) grip for all uses.

The DPad on the DS3 has it's own flaws. The discrete cardinals provide greater precision even in the 'heat' of gaming. But their spacing and shape can be irritating if not painful with heavy use. No where near the uncomfortable level of the original NES pads, but nothing like the smooth action the TG-16's pads had. Also, the diagonals on the DS3 can be frustrating at times, requiring a person to reposition their thumb entirely to 'rock' the pad with acceptable precision. The larger the thumb the less this is a problem though. Also, the lack of 'rebound' in the action means that although the action is precise, it also means people tend to over compensate and press harder than they really need to get the pad to register directions. This is more an issue with games that use the pad heavily for consant movement instead of tapping for selections. (Shmup ship control versus RPG menu selection for example.)


Overall this means the DS3 is more suited for generic use and a wider variety of hand sizes. While the X360 pad is more purpose built for FPS style use and a overall larger hand size. (For optimal use) What style of games you play, your overall hand size and whether your really think about how you're gripping the controller are the defining factors in which controller you prefer overall.

[ED-057]

My question: Where the hell are the diodes for the power supply? Would that be the grey blob on the right?

I only connected one line for power, no diodes (and it has always worked)

[Shatterhand]

It's a good, technical explanation. I've never played with the Dual Shock 3, I don't know if there's any difference from the previous design. But when I play Raiden 4 or Mushi Futari, I don't have any problems playing the game smoothly, and my thumbs don't get tired or aching. Maybe my hands are big or something, I dunno

Which is a lot different when I play with the dual shock 2... I never feel confortamble with it when playing shmups.. the diagonal thing is a big problem indeed, and I get pain in my thumb very quickly. That's why I bought a completely different ontroller to use with the Playstation 2 (Which also has a USB port ), I really find the Dual Shock to be hugely uncomfortable to play.

This also apply for fighting games. I can play Blazblue or SFIV on the X360 dpad without much difficulty (It certainly is not as good as the Saturn pad, but more than acceptable for me), while on the Dualshock I have a hard time to even fire a shoryuken, let alone some of the most complex motions from the KoF series. (Thank God I have a coupld of PS2 arcade sticks )..

[PainAmplifier]

The only major difference between the DS2 and the DS3 is the change made to the lower triggers. Those are now analog instead of digital. I find their design rather awkward for their position. The convex design means that my fingers tend to slip off them too easily unless I shift to a hand position that makes it harder to quickly use all of the face buttons. For driving games (which are the ones best suited to them) this isn't a problem. For other games, I remap if possible/necessary. The new PS button in the middle of the controller is a non-issue despite being new. It's out of the way, but immediately accessable. For the most part that button is used for the PS3 itself, to reach the system UI. Games themselves don't use it at all. (Nor should they.)

Overall, you do not want to use the Dpad on the DS3 if the thumbstick is usable. The only game I have that doesn't 'see' the stick is "Gekioh: Shooting King", which is a PS1 shmup game. And playing that on a DS(2/3) Dpad is indeed awkward and a bit uncomfortable. It's been years since I've seen/used a PS1 controller (with or without the thumbsticks), but I don't recall the DPad on that original pad to be quite as bad as the later revisions. I think they raised the 'cross' pad a bit, enlarged the seperation between the cardinals and the actual edges aren't quite as rounded...but that might be the haze of old memory talking a bit.

I could use a arcade stick myself for certain games. It certainly makes sense for fighting and shmup games. On the other hand, for action/adventure games (or those with similar control schemes) which seem to make up the bulk of PS2/3 games the DS controller is perfectly usable and well suited for that.

Never had a Saturn myself, but played on a friends a bit. The dpad on that was pretty good, but the actual plastic had some 'lift' as if it wasn't snugged down, so it 'rattled' if you shook the controller or was a bit loose when in use. But overall as far as actual use it was pretty decent. (From what I remember) Not sure if that was all Saturn controllers or just his that were that way though.

[Shatterhand]

Don't get me wrong, the Dual Shock is more than adequate for games using the analog sticks. It's just that when it comes down to games that actually work on just the 8 digital directions (Like shmups and fighting games), I prefer to use a digital input than an analog one. When playing on the 360, Street Fighter IV and Mushi Futari are played with the Dpad, anything "modern" is played with the analog stick (Not that I have any other option anyway ). So when I want a digital input method, the Dual Shock fails horribly.

I prefer playing shmups with a Dpad than with a stick.... well, it's not a matter of taste, I just play a hell lot better with a Dpad... it's probablly all those years playing the genre just at home. With fighting games there's no discussion, an arcade stick it's always the better option.

But like I said, my complaining with the Dualshock is more towards arcade ports and stuff. When playing typical 3D games, the controller is more than adequate. Even though I believe the 360 controller wipes the floor with it.


(Regarding the size of my hands, I remembered a funny fact... when the N64 was launched, I was playing games using the analog stick holding the controller the same way I would hold it to play a game with the dpad... which means I would always grip the controller with each hand from each side of the controller, instead of holding it at the middle with my left hand when I was using the analog stick. It was just a few months later when I actually read the N64 manual that I noticed that was not the way it was meant to be hold, yet it always felt confortamble to me. Guess I have big hands indeed )

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you are serious about your thumbs aching from using a DS2 (which actually also has digital triggers by the way), it probably means you either haven't played enough yet or was doing something wrong (possibly gripping it too firmly, which happens even to people familiar with given controller). It's about practice, man, practice. The aching phase is merely a warm-up. I have enormous hands, therefore bigger pads feel more adequate to me, but when it comes to 8-directional digital controls, Dual Shock 2 is usually my controller of choice.

[Shatterhand]

The pain wasn't the only problem... hitting diagonals with precision was a serious problem too. And then when I had to do complicated motions like Geese Howard's Raising Storm, I would usually miss 9 out of 10 attempts.

As I have another controller to play on the PS2 (I actually have 4 of those that I showed in the picture above, they are very cheap, yet they last very long.. the oldest one I own I already have it for like 4 years, and its working perfectly), I just could never care about the DS2 again. I even bring it with me when I go play at other people's home.

I do have one DS2 at my home, for people who go play with me and prefer to play with it, but I personally never use it.

[undamned]

Although chicks dig the mess of wires hanging out the side of my laptop.

So does the fire department.
-ud

[ST Dragon]

How do they respond exactly?

Damn! You called my bluff...

Well, it would have been one cool story...