STGT '09 Hidden Gem Week 1, Varth - Thoughts

[Dragoforce]

I think people are getting a bit spoiled by only playing modern shmups. What they basiclly to is to throw static bullet patterns in front of the player, always attack from the front and seldom encourage the player to move around. In 90% of the game you can safely sit in the lower part of the screen and focus your attention on the upper part, because thats where all the bullets and enemies come from. Older games like Varth forces the player to move around a lot more, and to pay attention to all parts of screen. I for one do not think that there is anything wrong with snipers and enemies coming from behind, all you have to do is move up the screen a little bit and be prepared.

With that said I do appreciate modern shmups a lot, but I just can't understand what people have against snipers and enemies coming from diffrent directions.

[Twiddle]

I would have voted for a bad game, because other people are good at it.

[Danbo]

i'm really bad at rfj and i really don't feel like i'm ever going to get much better

[Herr Schatten]

it seems oldschoolers won't be even close to a treat to us this year.

Oldschoolers are always a treat!

(We'll see if we can be a threat, too. The tournament has just started. But since RFJ's scoring makes Raizing's look intuitive: meh.)

[szycag]

Liked it more than I thought I would, but all that slowdown kinda puts me off. Wish I would have played it more but never felt like it with the length of runs. Lots better than 19XX from last year.

[Icarus]

I think people are getting a bit spoiled by only playing modern shmups. What they basiclly to is to throw static bullet patterns in front of the player... <snip>
With that said I do appreciate modern shmups a lot, but I just can't understand what people have against snipers and enemies coming from diffrent directions.

I have to agree. Modern shooting games do spoil players a lot, as quite often the only threats come from the front, and are mainly bullet patterns - I find that navigating the same mazes of bullets over and over again can get stale after a while. In older games, threats came from all sides, and involved not just bullet patterns, but snipers, kamikaze planes and scenery. Older games felt more challenging, as you had to be constantly aware of everything around you.

Like I said in the "HS Forum participant = better player?" thread, variety is the spice of life - I suspect the people that do most of the complaining about snipers and kamikaze planes are the people who play only the new shooting games, like the Cave releases, where these kinds of threats do not often occur.

Regarding Varth, I do kind of like it, but I think it is too long a game. If the game started from the "second loop" and consisted of just the second half of the stages, it would have been more bearable. Not bad, but not fantastic.

Well done to everyone for some good scores. It's interesting being a spectator this year, as it's not as stressful, though I am playing RFJ this week as my J360 and Aces arrived last week and I fancied a go.

[toaplan_shmupfan]

IMHO, Varth has two significant flaws:

1. The game is very long (I can only make it to Stage 8 on a single credit, and that's still quite a bit of time into the game with IIRC 20 more stages to go).
2. The game pushed the hardware so much that it doesn't just have slowdown but it also has sprite overload flicker/oblitteration in several crowded parts of the game.

Other than that, it's impressive to see what Capcom was able to do in 1992 for an IMHO very challenging vertical shooter with very large and detailed sprite graphics.

Finally, Varth is also one of the few games I don't try to 1cc so I do credit feed until I've had enough (usually around Stage 12). The game doesn't reset the high score and just adds a point for each continue.

[BulletMagnet]

I find that navigating the same mazes of bullets over and over again can get stale after a while. In older games, threats came from all sides, and involved not just bullet patterns, but snipers, kamikaze planes and scenery. Older games felt more challenging, as you had to be constantly aware of everything around you.

I seem to recall a previous discussion along these lines, featuring a Vespa with cloaking technology...

[third_strike]

I think people are getting a bit spoiled by only playing modern shmups. What they basiclly to is to throw static bullet patterns in front of the player, always attack from the front and seldom encourage the player to move around. In 90% of the game you can safely sit in the lower part of the screen and focus your attention on the upper part, because thats where all the bullets and enemies come from. Older games like Varth forces the player to move around a lot more, and to pay attention to all parts of screen. I for one do not think that there is anything wrong with snipers and enemies coming from behind, all you have to do is move up the screen a little bit and be prepared.

With that said I do appreciate modern shmups a lot, but I just can't understand what people have against snipers and enemies coming from diffrent directions.

I am new in shmups and have played only modern shmups ( I guess) during this time. But still guess you are not sure in all, modern shmups have one complex score system and you can't only shot all like in varth. Some times the player is encouraged at stop of shoot an wait for better moment (during this time you need be ready for dodge bullets coming from several directions even control the bullets. I have play lot of EspGaluda in later days, this seems one modern shmup (I guess), if only sit in the lower part of the screen and focus your attention on the upper part the is over.

Cool?

[Dragoforce]

Yes, offcourse. I didn't mean to bash modern shmups in any way. My post was only and expression on my thoughts regarding bullet directions. There are many challenging aspects in manic shmups that aren't found in the older games, learning to master complex scoring systems as you mention is defintly one of them. I think it's just a simple matter on what you're used to. If you gave it some time, I'm sure that you would excel in older shmups as much as you do in modern.

Cool

[captpain]

Yes, offcourse. I didn't mean to bash modern shmups in any way. My post was only and expression on my thoughts regarding bullet directions. There are many challenging aspects in manic shmups that aren't found in the older games, learning to master complex scoring systems as you mention is defintly one of them. I think it's just a simple matter on what you're used to. If you gave it some time, I'm sure that you would excel in older shmups as much as you do in modern.

Cool

Older shmups don't have nearly enough lolis.

[Ruldra]

Another reason why they are so good.

[Erodion]

Just see this in the wr thread from cowboy.ikaruga:

Varth
Imasara T.O - 15.787.100

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE??

[-Bridget-]

Bah, I totally forgot about this one.

.....not that it matters any. That game is one of those ones that hates me more than they usually do.

[moozooh]

Varth is a decent game that I enjoyed a good lot. Once you get past stage 4 it becomes really entertaining, and rechargeable bombs make it much easier to traverse unfamiliar stages. I spent a lot of time on it during the week and am pleased by my score, but I do feel burnt-out on it just because of the sheer length (and laser tanks).

I find it somewhat funny that Capcom shmups manage to get one aspect of a game exactly right and totally botch another.

[Ruldra]

Just see this in the wr thread from cowboy.ikaruga:

Varth
Imasara T.O - 15.787.100

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE??

Check the discussion at the hi-score thread, sik explains in detail how it's done.

[Erodion]

wow. thanks

[Ed Oscuro]

2. The game pushed the hardware so much that it doesn't just have slowdown but it also has sprite overload flicker/oblitteration in several crowded parts of the game.

In before "is Varth slowdowns programmed in?!" topic.

At least it's not going the alternate route of dropping sprites (ala Athena in Daioh).