GW Generations: Put a bag over her head and do her.

[Rob]

One question 8.5, have you played GW2?? I've been one of the few people that didn't condemn GWG's shortcomings, but to make it out as some epic shooter and the best in years is ridiculous, even if it is opinion, when part 2 destroys it in every respect gameplay-wise and doesn't suffer from GWG's technical follies.

GWG and GW2 are very different. If you played the games for score you would know and I know you don't.

There's more to Giga Wing than bullet reflecting.

[8 1/2]

Yes indeed, I have part 2 on the DC.

Now, I don't expect everyone (or anyone really) to agree with me that GWG is a great game. It's not the best game around. It's just really fun, and I fell right into playing it. I haven't gotten that feeling in a long time from a game. Not since DDPDOJ really. I've tried all the new games, and enjoyed them a lot, but this one just took me by surprise.

Again, the point of all of this is not that GWG is the shit. I don't care if people hate it. But I personally put off getting it because of the hate being thrown at it. It wasn't until about two weeks ago that I finally picked it up, and after being pleasantly surprised it struck me that many others might be missing out too.

GWG is just an example, and how people respond to a particular game is going to vary wildly. One of my top two favorite shmups ever is DDPDOJ and look at how varied the opinions are on that one. I just wanted to make the point that the focus of this forum often slips away from gameplay and gets hung on visual issues. Visuals are great, but it seems like one is missing the point of enjoying shmups if they don't start with talks about gameplay.

Now, a thread discussing the differences between the three games would be a great move in this direction.

[Nemo]

One question 8.5, have you played GW2?? I've been one of the few people that didn't condemn GWG's shortcomings, but to make it out as some epic shooter and the best in years is ridiculous, even if it is opinion, when part 2 destroys it in every respect gameplay-wise and doesn't suffer from GWG's technical follies.

GWG and GW2 are very different. If you played the games for score you would know and I know you don't.

Just because I don't play GWG for score doesn't mean I don't know how. And GW2 and GW are very different as well, so what's your point. The question is what is better, and being the GW fanatic you are, are you going to claim GWGs is better?

[Neon]

every time i read a post by recap it makes me feel nauseous.

every time i give him another chance, its always the same. i wonder if he actually enjoys playing any games, or he just sits there measuring his tate screen dimensions endlessly.

Honestly, I can't remember the last post by you that wasn't attacking someone.

I dunno, I still strongly suspect you guys are overrating this game out of principle. 8.5 and Rob seem relatively sane so I'll get a used copy. It had better own and have a passable soundtrack or I'll have to ask you to slap yourselves.

[Nemo]

GWG is just an example, and how people respond to a particular game is going to vary wildly. One of my top two favorite shmups ever is DDPDOJ and look at how varied the opinions are on that one. I just wanted to make the point that the focus of this forum often slips away from gameplay and gets hung on visual issues. Visuals are great, but it seems like one is missing the point of enjoying shmups if they don't start with talks about gameplay.

People shouldn't completely write off GWG because if its technical issues, but at the same time they are a problem. The game is fun and adequate enough to clear, but for me (not being a big GW fan to begin with), it's problems do significantly hinder my desire to put forth any time or effort into accumulating a mad score. Especially when there are other shooters to be played which are more enjoyable IMO and don't suffer from the issues that GWG does. So basically what was resolved from the intial onslaught of GWG still stands, the game/port really is only for diehard Takumi and/or GW fans.

[8 1/2]

Neon - I find the game to very accessible. There a lot of ways to work for score and the challenge feels really well balanced to me. I don't know if it would be as enjoyable to play if your focus isn't on scoring. I would agree with the idea that if you're not a fan of Takumi games then this isn't going to change your mind. Just wanted to throw that out there before you go off to find it. I think you'll enjoy it, but I also don't mean to be the salesman for this game. I love it though.

[sffan]

Thanks for your title post here, 8 1/2. I also come from an age where arcade machines were the "real" videogames and home "TV games" were cool simply because you could actually play something on your TV. Giant pixels, so what! It was such a novelty to play a videogame at home, that we could deal with the suckiness. I remember laughing at how bad the games were, but they were fun anyway (I'm talking Fairchild & Atari in the '70s).

Anyway, I enjoy GWG even though I wish the framerate was there to make it smoother, and TATE was there to make it clearer. But as you said, the gameplay is all there, so I can appreciate it for that. A sucky port is better than no port.

[Rob]

Just because I don't play GWG for score doesn't mean I don't know how. And GW2 and GW are very different as well, so what's your point. The question is what is better, and being the GW fanatic you are, are you going to claim GWGs is better?

Point is they aren't comparable gameplay-wise, as in they're both doing the same thing but GW2 does it better. All three games are different, although GW1 and GWG are closest. I'm not sure which one is "better," simply because they feel a lot differently. Volcanon stuff is GW2's thing, and some Takumi crossbreed is GWG. Both are top notch.

I dunno, I still strongly suspect you guys are overrating this game out of principle. 8.5 and Rob seem relatively sane so I'll get a used copy. It had better own and have a passable soundtrack or I'll have to ask you to slap yourselves.

This is the most I've played a new shooter in a few years, so I think that counts for something. The soundtrack is really bland, but Randorama likes it.

[Rob]

Stuff that makes GWG feel a lot differently that you wouldn't notice unless playing for score:

-+0 shot medals
-proximity bonuses
-a practically non-maxing multiplier
-bonus enemies

In GW2 all you really have to do is trigger the volcanon and maximize your medals for each. You can get a really good score just by knowing how to do the 15 or so volcanon on a stage. GWG requires more constant attention to detail and balance between milking and bonuses. It's more fast paced.

[uwfan]

every time i read a post by recap it makes me feel nauseous.

every time i give him another chance, its always the same. i wonder if he actually enjoys playing any games, or he just sits there measuring his tate screen dimensions endlessly.

Honestly, I can't remember the last post by you that wasn't attacking someone.

my last post before this one is in this very thread, where i complimented someone strongly. you obviously werent looking very hard:

excellent post 8 1/2, truly excellent, one of the best i have read here for quite a while.

And i couldnt agree with you and rob more, youve brought back the old feel of the shmups forum a few years back, and reminded us all that:

GAMEPLAY is ALWAYS Much more important than graphics.

[raiden]

GWG is just an example, and how people respond to a particular game is going to vary wildly. One of my top two favorite shmups ever is DDPDOJ and look at how varied the opinions are on that one. I just wanted to make the point that the focus of this forum often slips away from gameplay and gets hung on visual issues. Visuals are great, but it seems like one is missing the point of enjoying shmups if they don't start with talks about gameplay.

ok, let me respond with a question: why should I care about GWG when I have so many other shmups I don´t tire playing? I´m patient, either there will be a better port someday, or Type X will become affordable. And no, I don´t subscribe to the belief that each port should be supported out of principle. I buy games for myself, not for political reasons.
I´m tired of the whole constant state of excitement about new releases in the videogame industry. Actually, I don´t need any new releases at all, I´m perfectly fine just playing the games that are there already. Like BulletMagnet put it, the great thing about sucking at games is you get a whole lot of replay value.

@Rob: in which way does the multiplier max out at Gigawing 1? Bonus enemies are in GW1 already. You know I hate the volcano concept.

[Rob]

@Rob: in which way does the multiplier max out at Gigawing 1? Bonus enemies are in GW1 already. You know I hate the volcano concept.

49,999,999 is the max, which should be much easier to attain in GW than the 999,999,999 max in GWG (the same as GW2's). I've gotten closer to GW1's max than GWG's and I haven't played it as much.

[BulletMagnet]

Like BulletMagnet put it, the great thing about sucking at games is you get a whole lot of replay value.

Heh, technically I didn't coin that, I just used it with permission (offhand I forget who it was who I borrowed it from) in my sig some time ago...'course, I DO still subscribe to the notion.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

UnscathedFlyingObject - I don't care which company puts out the games so long as the shmups keep coming. And bashing the memories collection (before it's even out) by calling it half-assed? Yeah, 25 classics per volume at a cheap price... those motherfuckers will pay.

I'll send you a dollar if the comps turn out great. Ain't I a messenger of peace?

[8 1/2]

Wow, so much hostility. What's going on? What is this "fuck everything" attitude?

AGAIN, I don't fucking care if you like GWG. Flush it down the toilet if you like. I just wanted to make the point that we should focus more on gameplay, but that point seems to be missed. If you don't like the game that's fine. This, aside from Mars Matrix, is the only Takumi game that I've ever really felt a connection to, so it's not hard for me to imagine that others won't feel the same way about this game that I do.

I like really basic games that allow for in-the-moment thinking. With the exception of the Pachi games, I don' t much like memorizing huge portions of shmups in order to progress slightly. This game seems very moment-to-moment and it gave that rush that comes with feeling like I really understand something. I'm in the middle of a bullet storm, in a level I've never seen, but I take a deep breath and put a serious fucking dent in it. That's a rare feeling for me, and I felt like sharing it with people who know these sorts of games.

How many posts are there here in this thread challenging GWG? It just goes to show how hard it is to express yourself though little paragraphs like this. Hate this game. Just hate it for its gameplay.

[professor ganson]

Nicely put, 8.5. I'll have to pick up GWG at some point.

Has anyone noticed that Play-Asia now has a Korean version of GWG which is about $15 cheaper. Is there some disadvantage to the Korean version? I don't understand the difference.

[professor ganson]

Hey, the first Giga Wing is a bit ugly too, but I would still rank it among my top 5 favorite games. Haven't yet played GWG.

I can´t really empathise (spelling?) with this, as I find the first Giga Wing beautiful.

Well, it's not beautiful in the conventional sense, though it does have a mysterious atmosphere, excellent sound/music, and a rather distinctive look. It has a nonstandard sort of beauty, I would say. Beauty in the conventional sense is overrated in any case.

[Metal Gear Okt]

It's been a while since I've played GW2, but was there such a long delay before the reflect shield came up in that one? It seems to take a whole second in GWG, and that's really my only complaint. The controls just feel like they lag a bit.That's really my only complaint. Otherwise, the grapics are servicable for a Naomi/DC game.

[Cthulhu]

Well, I picked up the PS2 port today. After playing it for just a few minutes, I really do think it's alleviated much of the "skipping" problem with the framerate that affected me so much in the arcades. It's still there, but not nearly to the same extent. (One of the main patterns I was watching were the "green snowflake" shots that one of the bosses fires... in the arcade those things seemed to jump down the screen due to frame loss, whereas in the PS2 version they glide more smoothly [albeit more slowly].)

What worries me now is why DEL and I have such different experiences with it... maybe it's just one of those quips that drives some people nuts and other people don't care about. At any rate, even though there's no TATE, the loading times are somewhat slow, the colors have lost some of their clarity, and the proportions of the screen seem weird, I really like the game now. Go figure. I still maintain that the programming could be -much- better, and obviously the visuals need help, but I think the port is very playable indeed.

[captain ahar]

Nicely put, 8.5. I'll have to pick up GWG at some point.

Has anyone noticed that Play-Asia now has a Korean version of GWG which is about $15 cheaper. Is there some disadvantage to the Korean version? I don't understand the difference.

resale value, i've been sitting on my Xii Stag for a year. i will not get into an argument over the comparison, as it is not made on a quality basis.

[Rob]

It's been a while since I've played GW2, but was there such a long delay before the reflect shield came up in that one? It seems to take a whole second in GWG, and that's really my only complaint. The controls just feel like they lag a bit.That's really my only complaint. Otherwise, the grapics are servicable for a Naomi/DC game.

GW2's recharge is about 5 seconds and GWG's is 4. Activation time is fast for both, GWG's might be slightly quicker (slowdown issue?).

[Neon]

every time i read a post by recap it makes me feel nauseous.

every time i give him another chance, its always the same. i wonder if he actually enjoys playing any games, or he just sits there measuring his tate screen dimensions endlessly.

Honestly, I can't remember the last post by you that wasn't attacking someone.

my last post before this one is in this very thread, where i complimented someone strongly. you obviously werent looking very hard:

excellent post 8 1/2, truly excellent, one of the best i have read here for quite a while.

And i couldnt agree with you and rob more, youve brought back the old feel of the shmups forum a few years back, and reminded us all that:

GAMEPLAY is ALWAYS Much more important than graphics.

I didn't claim I have a good memory

[system11]

I like GWG a lot, I think it looks nice enough (could be better), the music is nice and the gameplay is strong. I don't give a damn about the missing tate mode - but the one thing I don't like about it at ALL is the frame rate.

I have issues focusing on things that aren't going smoothly. At 30fps, if you have a bullet stream which moves exactly one bullet length closer to the player every 2 frames, it appears to work like a flickbook animation - the end bullet vanishes as the trailing one appears. I'm totally unable to track bullets moving at that speed at that frame rate. One of the bosses fires some (from memory) green vulcans that do this, or they may be purple or blue.

[lmn4096]

Generaly I don't enter in that kind of thread:

but just think about this:
If people accept and be happy with that kind of port, then editor will not ignore it.
then if you like sh#t, don't be surprise to be served sh#t.

I think that kind of port must be boycotted and people must shout loudly to editor that they want better quality!

[Edge]

Read the whole thread and even if I haven't played GWG I'd like to add my opinion on the topic.

I am fairly new to this forum and my post is not refering to this very forum or any specific user, so please don't think I want to offend anyone here:

One thing that I have noticed in most forums (fighting games/shoot'em ups) is that there are some users who are telling other people what they should play, buy or whatever. Otherwise you are a noob and no pro-gamer and that childish stuff. I think in a forum you should respect every user and his opinion even if you think it is weird, there is no need to bash and flame his opinion. Often there are somethin like unwritten laws, which if you don't follow this opinions you are a noob or just nuts.

Many users are really serious about the 100% arcade feeling for shmups.
But I have played many games only on emulator, so what?
Am I a bad person or a lamer who don't know the real experience about shooting games? I personally don't have the money for a PCB and even if I had, I don't think that I would be willing to pay that much for just one game. If people want to invest so much money for a PCB, than they propably know what they do it for. I don't think that they are nuts or something, they just value those PCBs in another way than me.

I played Giga Wing 1, on DC and on Mame (Yeah Raiden, I really BUY games) and DoDonPachi on PSX and Mame. And I like Giga Wing more and find it's scoresystem much more enjoyable and much more balanced than DoDonPachi's.

What I am pointing at is, that in many forums some people start to bash many things out for no reason. Yeah, maybe that is their opinion. But it is not absolute, every human beeing has his own view and they should respect the view of other users more. After all the users browsing here must be shmup fans, too. So why not try to learn more about his view of this genre and trying to be more open minded for his ideals. Even if you think totally differnet about his opinions.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Generaly I don't enter in that kind of thread:

but just think about this:
If people accept and be happy with that kind of port, then editor will not ignore it.
then if you like sh#t, don't be surprise to be served sh#t.

I think that kind of port must be boycotted and people must shout loudly to editor that they want better quality!

Honestly, I don't understand the point of this topic. The rambling goes from "gameplay first" to bashing 2D and lastly saying that shitty ports are OK. You just put into words what I've been wanting to say for a while, "If people accept and be happy with that kind of port, then editor will not ignore it.
then if you like sh#t, don't be surprise to be served sh#t. " With older systems, there was no choice but to have a watered down port but with current systems most arcade games can be ported perfectly. We get poorly "emulated" games in our compilation 'cause companies know we'll buy that sh*t no matter what. I for one say "f*** you SNK" for their disappointing ports of MS4 and MS5. They should have been perfect since those games run perfectly even on my sh*tty computer.

[Rob]

Honestly, I don't understand the point of this topic. The rambling goes from "gameplay first" to bashing 2D and lastly saying that shitty ports are OK. You just put into words what I've been wanting to say for a while, "If people accept and be happy with that kind of port, then editor will not ignore it.
then if you like sh#t, don't be surprise to be served sh#t. "

The point is to stop losing sleep over superficial details and play the game for what it is, a playable game. Boycotts and petitions, oh man you guys have serious sway over these developers. Send them the message that we don't want more ports. I'm sure the missing 20 sales will let them know exactly what they did "wrong." I bet you weren't even interested in this game to begin with.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Honestly, I don't understand the point of this topic. The rambling goes from "gameplay first" to bashing 2D and lastly saying that shitty ports are OK. You just put into words what I've been wanting to say for a while, "If people accept and be happy with that kind of port, then editor will not ignore it.
then if you like sh#t, don't be surprise to be served sh#t. "

The point is to stop losing sleep over superficial details and play the game for what it is, a playable game. Boycotts and petitions, oh man you guys have serious sway over these developers. Send them the message that we don't want more ports. I'm sure the missing 20 sales will let them know exactly what they did "wrong." I bet you weren't even interested in this game to begin with.

Yeah, I'm not interested GWG, but I don't hate it either. I'm saying start "demanding high quality ports." I lose a lot of sleep when I pay for a compilation, and yet, I can play its games better in MAME. For example, MS4 and MS5, don't you guys like 1:1 or better ports? I guess not. If you did, you would be a little more b*tchy about your ports. Companies used put in extras and stuff but people like playable stuff all the same.

[Rob]

GWG port is at least on par with the arcade version, which makes the weeping all the more ridiculous.

[Cthulhu]

GWG port is at least on par with the arcade version, which makes the weeping all the more ridiculous.

The framerate is actually superior to the arcade version.