GW Generations: Put a bag over her head and do her.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:59 am

I'm so sick of people bashing this game. Have you played it? It's amazing. It's so fast and so fun and so deep that it has breathed new life into my hobby. It's simply the best shmup I've played in years. YEARS. I like it more than Espgaluda, more than Gradius V, more than Ikaruga.

AND IT'S UGLY. Oh my Holy-shit-what-kindergartener-progammed-this U-G-L-Y. The polygon count is painfully low, there are jaggies all over the place and most of the stages are fairly monotone in their color schemes. Even with the "original" screen mode on a 32" TV it all feels much too cramped, and I can't tell you how much I would kill for a true tate mode in this.

But I don't care.

This current generation is the generation of emulation. They are like fat spoiled children of rich parents, who spoon chocolate into their mouths with giant ladels made of gold. They sit on a mountain of riches and whine that they can't reach any higher.

I'm just getting outright bored with all this "Is it true 2D or not?" bullshit that keeps coming up here. Look, I love to have the best equipment I can get. I'll take a monitor over a TV anyday, and I'll seek out the truest form of a game if I can, but I'm also an average citizen on an average budget. Yes, I'd love to have the PCB for this game. I will more than likely seek it out someday, but right now I can't put out $1000 for it. I can, however, put out $60 for it (though even that is a bit tight).

Should I then pass up on this great game because it's not 100%? I grew up with the NES and the Genesis. When I was a kid I played the shit out of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the Arcade Game on the NES, and that was a horrific port. But, we the children of that era, figured it out. We learned the quirks of that busted game and mastered it. We grew and played somewhat busted ports of Altered Beast and Golden Axe, Fire Shark and even a super-framey version of Virtua Racing.

I loved all those games and the thought never crossed my mind that they should be better. Arcades were arcades and consoles were consoles. I never dreamed that one day the two would be nearly identical in visual quality. WE'VE BEEN SPOILED BY THIS. To pass up killer games because of visual quibbles, when the gameplay is still intact is just plain stupid.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:10 am

8 1/2 wrote:I'm so sick of people bashing this game. Have you played it? It's amazing. It's so fast and so fun and so deep that it has breathed new life into my hobby. It's simply the best shmup I've played in years. YEARS. I like it more than Espgaluda, more than Gradius V, more than Ikaruga.

AND IT'S UGLY. Oh my Holy-shit-what-kindergartener-progammed-this U-G-L-Y. The polygon count is painfully low, there are jaggies all over the place and most of the stages are fairly monotone in their color schemes. Even with the "original" screen mode on a 32" TV it all feels much too cramped, and I can't tell you how much I would kill for a true tate mode in this.

But I don't care.

This current generation is the generation of emulation. They are like fat spoiled children of rich parents, who spoon chocolate into their mouths with giant ladels made of gold. They sit on a mountain of riches and whine that they can't reach any higher.

I'm just getting outright bored with all this "Is it true 2D or not?" bullshit that keeps coming up here. Look, I love to have the best equipment I can get. I'll take a monitor over a TV anyday, and I'll seek out the truest form of a game if I can, but I'm also an average citizen on an average budget. Yes, I'd love to have the PCB for this game. I will more than likely seek it out someday, but right now I can't put out $1000 for it. I can, however, put out $60 for it (though even that is a bit tight).

Should I then pass up on this great game because it's not 100%? I grew up with the NES and the Genesis. When I was a kid I played the shit out of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles the Arcade Game on the NES, and that was a horrific port. But, we the children of that era, figured it out. We learned the quirks of that busted game and mastered it. We grew and played somewhat busted ports of Altered Beast and Golden Axe, Fire Shark and even a super-framey version of Virtua Racing.

I loved all those games and the thought never crossed my mind that they should be better. Arcades were arcades and consoles were consoles. I never dreamed that one day the two would be nearly identical in visual quality. WE'VE BEEN SPOILED BY THIS. To pass up killer games because of visual quibbles, when the gameplay is still intact is just plain stupid.

Personally I think Gigawing Generations looks fantastic, from the vid. Kiken put up!

And yeah we have been spoiled; I am RIGHT there with you 8 1/2; playing games in arcades as a kid, I NEVER even DREAMED that one day I'd be able to play arcade-quality games on a home console, in the comfort of my own home. So thanks for posting this, I think the forum needs more introspective threads like this.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:41 am

Hey, the first Giga Wing is a bit ugly too, but I would still rank it among my top 5 favorite games. Haven't yet played GWG.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:56 am

Maybe I just have bad taste, but IMO there are a ton of excellent shooters out there. If I can have

- Perfect Gameplay
- Perfect Visuals, atmosphere, music, etc.

Then why just settle for the gameplay?

From what I've seen of GWG, the graphics are not only piss-poor, they are artistically lacking, and the music snippets are really bland. Why bother with bullshit quality when you can have top quality, I ask myself. I bet DDP has better gameplay and I know it has better visuals and audio and atmosphere.

I'll just wait for Mushi, and play Dragon Blaze in the meantime...rather than spend $60 on something I know will be less than perfect

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:58 am

I want to like this game. I really do. But I can't. I tried many, many times too. I love the original Giga Wing games, and the news of a sequel got me all exicted when I first heard about it. When I saw a big "Giga Wing Generations" banner up at at HEY! in Akiba for the location test, I was thrilled. I tried so hard to like it that I posted some mildly positive feelings about it when I got back. After further play, however, the little nagging voice in the back of my head saying that I was lying to myself was right.

This game is terrifyingly mediocre. It's a decent game thoroughly mangled by wretched programming. And I'm not just talking about the visuals, I'm talking about the framerate and controls. A shmup dropping frames is completely unacceptable. When life and death relies on my ability to guide my ship with pixel perfect precision through clouds of bullets, I need to see exactly what is going on at all times, and it's totally impossible here. The game runs smoothly for about two minutes in the first level, and then the whole thing chokes and caves in on itself. When Takumi can learn to program again, maybe I'll give their games another look.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:06 am

Hey, the first Giga Wing is a bit ugly too, but I would still rank it among my top 5 favorite games. Haven't yet played GWG.

I can´t really empathise (spelling?) with this, as I find the first Giga Wing beautiful, but even if I´d find it ugly, it´d not even remotely be in the same league of ugly as the GWG PS2 port.

You certainly have a point, 8 1/2, although you have to admit that all those Genesis games didn´t look as ugly as GWG PS2 does. I´ve always fought for the principle of "gameplay first", but I was assuming bland graphics there, not THAT UGLY. Lowering expectations is one thing, but digging through shit to entertain the hope of finding jewels is another.

I´ve been following some of the logs and discussions around GWG, and I´m sure interested in playing the Type X version at some point. But the PS2 port really has me throw up in disgust. Or maybe, just maybe, Taito will have mercy and release a version for the new consoles, finally giving me a reason to buy one of them.

Let´s take the Raiden example. I´ve been a fan of the series for 15 years, played it in the arcade and probably all the console ports that are out there. But one version was so bad I didn´t want to play it even when I had it, and that was the SNES version. I always thought this was a unique phenomenon - until I played GWG PS2.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:08 am

Excellent.

From what I've seen of GWG, the graphics are not only piss-poor, they are artistically lacking, and the music snippets are really bland.

I don't see a situation where music and graphics would be a tiebreaker between this and something else. Gameplay first, and it's its own game. I really don't care how nice a Cave game looks. Everyone has a different idea of how complex they want a game/scoring system, and GWG is the perfect balance for me. Very simple rules, but highly score-intensive. I really don't care if it looks average, I concentrate on the medals, bullets and numbers anyways.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:20 am

Strange, GWG had me hooked instantly, and I'm enjoying the original GigaWing much more now too!

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:20 am

As long as it's not GW Bush Generations.

>>

<<

...What?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:27 am

Blade wrote:As long as it's not GW Bush Generations.

There's a Photoshop project in here someplace...I'll hafta put it right up next to Strom Blade.

Ataru · Post by **Ataru** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:38 am

BulletMagnet wrote:
Blade wrote:As long as it's not GW Bush Generations.
There's a Photoshop project in here someplace...I'll hafta put it right up next to Strom Blade.

is that from the same developers as Chaos 'Feld?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:39 am

iatneH wrote:Strange, GWG had me hooked instantly, and I'm enjoying the original GigaWing much more now too!

I also had a reevaluation of GW1 this year, but it was the month before GWG. I used to think it was mediocre. All of the GW games have their flaws, but I love them all anyways. Perfect games are overrated.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:55 am

Just to quickly clarify: My point is not that people should love GWG. Whether or not you dig the gameplay is irrelevant, what I hope for is simply that you look at the gameplay and ignore this whining about graphics. Now, if there are frame issues that really detract from gameplay, then that's a point to be made. I don't see this problem myself in the PS2 version, but again, that's beside the point, because it's a fair look at gameplay.

What worries me is this trend of one/two people buying a game, calling it out for bad graphics and a great number of the forum posting things like, "Oh well I hope Taito can step it up, because from what I hear... blah, blah, blah."

And Dragon Blaze on PS2 is FAR from perfect. It has hideous menus and a shakey front couple of screens. The game itself looks like an emulated game and not something that was really programmed to take advantage of the hardware. But it plays fantastically well, and it's such a treat to play that I can't be more happy with it.

A little more effort to research opinions would go a long way. I love coming to this forum as it's the only place I can really talk about these sorts of games with people that know what games are supposed to be, and I just want to be a bit more thankful that we're getting ANY of these games at home at all.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:56 am

Sheez, ain't there a lot of getting pissed over little things these days. There's the ones that whine about mainstream gaming, the ones that whine about old school gaming, the ones that whine about M$ and $ony, the ones that whine that other people whine that they hate the games they like, the ones that whine about how others whine (me), infinitum whining. And I wouldn't do a game with a bag over its case.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:37 am

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:Sheez, ain't there a lot of getting pissed over little things these days. There's the ones that whine about mainstream gaming, the ones that whine about old school gaming, the ones that whine about M$ and $ony, the ones that whine that other people whine that they hate the games they like, the ones that whine about how others whine (me), infinitum whining. And I wouldn't do a game with a bag over its case.

These types of posts are never necessary.

I have to admit I don't care if people hate this game or not even give the gameplay a chance. But they should buy one for the collection! I need Homura.

uwfan · Post by **uwfan** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:40 am

excellent post 8 1/2, truly excellent, one of the best i have read here for quite a while.

And i couldnt agree with you and rob more, youve brought back the old feel of the shmups forum a few years back, and reminded us all that:

GAMEPLAY is ALWAYS Much more important than graphics.

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:20 am

8 1/2 wrote:Just to quickly clarify: My point is not that people should love GWG. Whether or not you dig the gameplay is irrelevant, what I hope for is simply that you look at the gameplay and ignore this whining about graphics. Now, if there are frame issues that really detract from gameplay, then that's a point to be made. I don't see this problem myself in the PS2 version, but again, that's beside the point, because it's a fair look at gameplay.

*Takes a deep breath*

Sorry, I guess I got a little carried away with the negativity in my first post. The arcade version of GWG (I have yet to play the PS2 port) has some massive frame dropping issues, and it really killed the game for me because it felt like cheap death city. I really, really like GW 1 and 2, so I was pretty disappointed.

I tried sifting through the -massive- original GWG post to see if anyone had played both versions, but unless I overlooked something, nobody has. If the PS2 port has cleared these up, tate mode be damned I want a copy. I might see if I can find GWG next time I'm in Tokyo to find out... even if I don't particularly like a shmup, I often try to buy em' just to support the few people bold enough to release them. (I even bought Trizeal, and I've been groaning about that one from day one

)

What worries me is this trend of one/two people buying a game, calling it out for bad graphics and a great number of the forum posting things like, "Oh well I hope Taito can step it up, because from what I hear... blah, blah, blah."

And Dragon Blaze on PS2 is FAR from perfect. It has hideous menus and a shakey front couple of screens. The game itself looks like an emulated game and not something that was really programmed to take advantage of the hardware. But it plays fantastically well, and it's such a treat to play that I can't be more happy with it.

Agreed. I still play Strikers on the PS2 on occasion, and that game is hi-res shimmer central. Still good games though.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:46 am

Cthulhu wrote: I tried sifting through the -massive- original GWG post to see if anyone had played both versions, but unless I overlooked something, nobody has.

I think DEL has. See first page of the score thread for how that went.

Cthulhu · Post by **Cthulhu** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:53 am

Rob wrote: I think DEL has. See first page of the score thread for how that went.

Hrm. This means one of two things: 1) the port really is just crap and it keeps all the problems of the arcade but doesn't fix anything. Or, 2) the game has slowdown instead of frame dropping and that is why it feels so slow to him... I'm really hoping it's actually 2. That would mean that my primary complaint about the game has been fixed!!! (Yeah, this is probably being overly optimistic... but I can hope right?

At any rate, there's a good chance that the game has gone down in price a little bit (XII Stag dropped in price after like two, three weeks), and that would make it easily purchasable as a "sure, why not" item...

UnscathedFlyingObject · Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:07 am

I thought about it between posts and came to the conclusion that 8.5 must be a Taito employee. He is promoting complacency, so we shut the !@#$%^ up when Taito releases their half assed memories compilations.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:50 pm

i kinda agree, hell i find the port of gunbird 1 and 2 on the ps2 very enjoyable, flawed, but enjoyable.

but, i dont like 30 fps and no tate, and considering that im still not done with GW1, never really played GW2, and need to find the money for mars matrix, gigawing generations, a game that had mixed reviews when it was released in the arcades, can wait for my 70$, thanks.

8 1/2 · Post by **8 1/2** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:56 pm

Cthulhu - No worries. I think your post had a valid point.

UnscathedFlyingObject - I don't care which company puts out the games so long as the shmups keep coming. And bashing the memories collection (before it's even out) by calling it half-assed? Yeah, 25 classics per volume at a cheap price... those motherfuckers will pay.

*None of what I've written here was meant to say that anyone shouldn't talk about graphics. Give these ports hell by all means. What I hate to see however is for someone to totally disregard a game because someone else said it looks worse than the arcade version. If these visual issues infringe on gameplay then to hell with it, but if the gameplay is intact then I can't see what the big deal is. Lately it seems like Taito is the most hated company in the industry on these forums and they're pouring shmup love all over us. I guess it would just be nice to see a little more fervor over getting to experience new forms of gameplay instead of this, "I don't want this 90%-accurate abomination in my collection! Screw Taito" sort of nonsense that I keep hearing.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:21 pm

Having played the Arcade Type X Version first, I did feel the lack of TATE when I played the PS2 Port.

Otherwise, the Port is pretty much the same game.

Rob and Rando have been pushing some insanely impressive scores

on the Port, so I guess we shouldn't complain too much about the size differences. I would like to have joined them on their score-mission, but I've gotten carried away with my Mush mission in Casino Arcade

. At some point, I will return to GWG & try to learn what I was doing wrong/missing

From the outset, when the Type X turned up in Casino Arcade last year, I enjoyed playing GWG. I stated that the graphics were not good & that all I cared about was playability and score, and it had both of those

.

Regs, DEL

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:39 pm

I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents as I was the first to offer a quick rundown of the PS2 version when it came out:

I don't think GWG is a terrible game. I think it's solid, but not as good as part 2. However, I prefer the fact that it feels more like part 2 than part 1 (which I personally find to be rather stiff and mechanical in its execution).

Now, in terms of the port... I think it is safe to call the PS2 version of GWG a "questionable port". This is not saying that it not worth playing, but simply that there are undeniable problems surrounding the presentation of the home version. Having said that, I would also care to point out that it is more than possible to cope and account for these problems... but, the very fact they exist is what causes me to label the game this way.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, but this game should never have been presented in Tate-screen orientation. It is a Yoko-screen game that has been stretched vertically (made more apparent in Original Mode). During most of the stages, I find that the top of the screen (in particular) is actually very empty (most enemies appear from the sides or the bottom of the screen and bosses normally move down, leaving a fair amount of space behind them). I have been meaning to take screen shots and expand the images until the left and right borders fill the screen and then cropping the top to see if the visual field of play is still acceptable (if anything, the ship size should cease to be an issue). Even though this won't do anything for the game itself, I think it's worth noting that Takumi really should have stuck to the Yoko screen format for this game.

Recap · Post by **Recap** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:09 pm

I have no time right now to read the whole thread and why you like Yoku Shin better than Galuda and your mum, but this line got my attention:

To pass up killer games because of visual quibbles, when the gameplay is still intact is just plain stupid.

'Cause Yoku Shin is exactly the best example of how a wrong visual conception ruins gameplay. The low frame rate, the annoying color palette, shimmering, small game area, and yep, uglyness, make of this almost impossible to play. Following your ship on screen and avoiding bullets is too hard here. And I'm speaking even with a 28'' TV and RGB output.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:40 pm

Recap wrote:make of this almost impossible to play. Following your ship on screen and avoiding bullets is too hard here.

I think you're building these things up as problems to excuse the fact that you wouldn't give the game a chance anyways. Fact is no technical problem, as unsightly as they may be, makes the game "impossible to play." Hey would you explain people not having a problem avoiding bullets? I never had that problem due to technical issues and I'm playing on a smaller monitor in composite.

shmup-o · Post by **shmup-o** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:49 pm

Using a blindfold is much kinkier than a bag. I can't wait to bring home GWG and bend her over, bag or no bag.

uwfan · Post by **uwfan** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:08 pm

every time i read a post by recap it makes me feel nauseous.

every time i give him another chance, its always the same. i wonder if he actually enjoys playing any games, or he just sits there measuring his tate screen dimensions endlessly.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:35 pm

One question 8.5, have you played GW2?? I've been one of the few people that didn't condemn GWG's shortcomings, but to make it out as some epic shooter and the best in years is ridiculous, even if it is opinion, when part 2 destroys it in every respect gameplay-wise and doesn't suffer from GWG's technical follies.

Skyline · Post by **Skyline** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:37 pm

Yes, all of the graphical setbacks were a dissapointment. Yes, the game would have been much better when played in tate.

But the gameplay is excellent. It plays like the original GW, just on crack. And that more than makes up for it.

GW2's visuals weren't all that great either. Sure it was on the DC and looked spiffy on VGA, but overall GW2 and GWG are about on the same page in terms of graphical detail, just that the latter has aliased polygons...and this might just be a personal thing, but those goddamn "strobe-light" bullets in GW2 just got fucking annoying after a while.

shmups.system11.org

GW Generations: Put a bag over her head and do her.

GW Generations: Put a bag over her head and do her.

Re: GW Generations: Put a bag over her head and do her.

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