ud's RROD article (free mods inside!)

[undamned]

Having recently picked up a first gen. XBOX 360, I couldn't just set it up on my media rack and hope it didn't die. What to do? Modify it of course

This write-up was longer than I anticipated, but I think it says everything I want it to:

http://therealundamned.blogspot.com/200 ... -rrod.html

-ud

[dmauro]

This is an interesting solution. I had decided against the x-clamp preventative measure because I read a lot of people writing about how the stress it puts on the system to install it would make it worse off. Could you give some more details on how exactly you drilled away the part of the chassis that was in the way? I don't suppose you have photos of the process?

[robivy64]

The x-clamp mod is a temporary fix to a much bigger problem. All you are doing is forcing the cracked BGA connections together until new ones form. You only read about the x-clamp mod working because nobody follows up with a "my system just stopped working again" post.

It's like putting a band-aid on a shark bite.

[brokenhalo]

The x-clamp mod is a temporary fix to a much bigger problem. All you are doing is forcing the cracked BGA connections together until new ones form. You only read about the x-clamp mod working because nobody follows up with a "my system just stopped working again" post.

It's like putting a band-aid on a shark bite.

i'll be that guy. my first 360 died. i did the x-clamp mod and 3 months later it died again. luckily it seems the newer 360's don't have the heat related issues. but my dvd-rom drive is starting to get real fussy with loading discs....

[undamned]

Could you give some more details on how exactly you drilled away the part of the chassis that was in the way? I don't suppose you have photos of the process?

You just remove everything from the chassis and have at it

I used a countersink drill bit like this:



It's nice because, unlike traditional drill bits, it doesn't take you for a ride as soon as the bit pokes through

I spotted this set on amazon for like $22, but you can probably find one at your local hardware store for cheap. I cant recall which size I used, but you want about a .5" hole centered on the stock screw hole. I chose to dremel out (using a cutting wheel) in front of the hole a bit further, just to be sure the x-clamp wasn't touching, but I doubt you actually need to (as long as you have verified nothing is touching). You need not worry about how ugly it is. Just be sure their are no metal shavings or dust when you are done. I actually washed mine down in the sink and let it dry in the hot air outside.

The only reason I didn't just use a dremel cutting wheel to remove the entire rectangle area under the processors was because the chassis is also used as an RF shield. Honestly though, you'd probably be fine just cutting out that whole section, which would be much easier than drilling and dremeling individual holes.
-ud

[robivy64]

X-clamp mod is a waste of time. Send it in to Microsoft.

The problem is with the BGA connections and the lead-free solder being less resilient to temperature changes.

[DAY]

So, if I read this correctly, the xclamp fix is just pushing everything together and because it still is fixed to the mobo, therefore still as ineffective as the original solution?

I understand that with drilling out hte holes, the tension is released, but what prevents it from falling off? I don't really understand the washers bit. Can you please help me out with some WIP pics? Thanks in advance.

[undamned]

So, if I read this correctly, the xclamp fix is just pushing everything together and because it still is fixed to the mobo, therefore still as ineffective as the original solution?

No, the x-clamp fix is bad in a different way It is destructive because of the immense pressure it puts on all the parts being sandwiched. It has nothing to do with the original design flaw.

The original design flaw was that the heat sink's pressure against the CPU/GPU was based upon how straight the motherboard and metal chassis are (which is far from guaranteed).

I understand that with drilling out hte holes, the tension is released, but what prevents it from falling off? I don't really understand the washers bit. Can you please help me out with some WIP pics? Thanks in advance.

In drilling out the holes, we are not so much releasing tension (we need it!), we are allowing the tension to not be thrown off by other parts. When it is cut free, the x-clamps are able to apply tension uniformly and no longer have to battle against the metal chassis. The washers merely hold the clamps on, as the screw heads are not big enough w/o the support of the chassis (which has been drilled out!).

I don't have WIP pics, being as I did not take them as I went along, but maybe this will give a better angle:



Also refer to my reply to dmauro.
-ud

[robivy64]

The design flaw is the GPU's BGA solder joints expanding and contracting drastically due to excessive heat. You remove the heat, you remove the problem. The glue MS added to the GPU and CPU was not added randomly.

[undamned]

The design flaw is the GPU's BGA solder joints expanding and contracting drastically due to excessive heat.

The design flaw I was referring to was the poor mounting of the heat sink (i.e. the flaw covered in my article). There are any number of other flaws w/ the design of the 360 I did not cover
-ud

[DAY]

Thx undamned, the second picture really helps. I can now see how you drilled it it out and how the xclamp is fixed now. My holiday is over two weeks. When I do my attempt I will make WIP pictures en stick them on this thread.

[emphatic]

Thx undamned, the second picture really helps. I can now see how you drilled it it out and how the xclamp is fixed now. My holiday is over two weeks. When I do my attempt I will make WIP pictures en stick them on this thread.

Thank you!

[Casey120]

Those 8 screws are pulling the X-Clamp and motherboard down and bending it in the process .

Cant you just remove the 8 screws under the chassis and not drill and use washers ?
The X-clamp is very tight on the motherboard and hard to remove so the risk of a clamp getting lose is not very likely .

[undamned]

Cant you just remove the 8 screws under the chassis and not drill and use washers ?
The X-clamp is very tight on the motherboard and hard to remove so the risk of a clamp getting lose is not very likely .

You might be able to get away without using the washers, but you are still not doing anything to prevent the x-clamps from touching the chassis. Any pressure from the chassis is bad and without drilling those areas out, you cannot guarantee nothing is touching.
-ud

[StarCreator]

Hrm... I have two 360s in my possession, an older US 360 (no HDMI port, not sure what hardware revision otherwise), and a Falcon JP 360. Seriously considering doing this on the former since the warranty is long gone, but I'm really going to need tons of WIP photos because I still don't understand what is being done here, and I don't think I will until I see photos of the unmodded X-clamp assembly. Plus, I'm terrible at using drills and would probably screw it up royally if I attempted to do this...

[Wavey Pavey]

See here, might be able to get your head round it a little more (follow the first link)

http://www.avforums.com/forums/8722379-post6.html

[Casey120]

Cant you just remove the 8 screws under the chassis and not drill and use washers ?
The X-clamp is very tight on the motherboard and hard to remove so the risk of a clamp getting lose is not very likely .

You might be able to get away without using the washers, but you are still not doing anything to prevent the x-clamps from touching the chassis. Any pressure from the chassis is bad and without drilling those areas out, you cannot guarantee nothing is touching.
-ud

The whole problem as i understand and as the last posters link shows is that the X-Clamp is pulled down to the chassis by the 8 small screws under the motherboard while the other mobo studs stand a bit higher and so flexing the mobo , to remove the 8 screws altogether would be the simplest solution to take away that strain .



The rest of the problem solving is taking it a bit to the extreme by Xbox-experts.com IMO

[undamned]

The top diagram is flawed. Maybe I'll doctor it up later to show where, but it's not an accurate representation of what's happening. His final solution (no pun intended) is also flawed.

The heat sink is bolted to the mobo. That is already bad. Then on top of that he's using FOAM to apply pressure to the motherboard? Listen, these GPU's can get hot enough to MELT SOLDER and WARP FIBERGLASS (essentially what the motherboard is made of) and he thinks that foam can stand up to that sort of heat?

And, let's say that he did find some sort of foam that can withstand hundreds of degrees of heat, he's still working from a bad design because he's using the motherboard as a flex-plate. You don't put pressure underneath the motherboard unless you assume that it is flexible. The last thing you want to do is "use" the flexibility of the motherboard (leads to cracked traces, components, etc.). You want to prevent any flexing whatsoever, and the way you do that is with a dynamically tensioned, free floating heat sink, not one that is bolted to the motherboard.

In the end this "fix" is hardly better than the original factory design (granted the foam does not melt), at best (and quite possibly worse than the original design).

- EDIT -



-ud

[dmauro]

I'm just going to try to mitigate any heat problems as best I can without opening the console, and hope that I can send it to MS for repair when it RRODs, since I'm in the US. Here's how I've got it set up now:





Propped up so all sides of the console are exposed.

[emphatic]

I'm just going to try to mitigate any heat problems as best I can without opening the console, and hope that I can send it to MS for repair when it RRODs, since I'm in the US. Here's how I've got it set up now:





Propped up so all sides of the console are exposed.

Hope you don't knock it over though. Or any pet/baby/drunk friend knocking it over. I have mine in a shelf I built inside my EGRET II. Laying flat. As heat travels upward, isn't having it standing up exposing it to more heat?

[stuntman]

When my Jap 360 arrived the first thing I did was let it warm up then I moved my hand around the case feeling for any hotspots. The one area that got really warm was below the GPU. Enough heat is conducted (via the x-clamp screws) from the heatsink to the metal chassis for it to get rather warm. With the console laid flat (horizontal) the heat from the chassis will rise straight up until it meets the underside of the motherboard. At least that's my theory, and the reason why I don't think having the console in a horizontal position is neccessarily the best way to avoid overheating issues.

I drilled some holes around this hotspot and it now stays cool to the touch...

[Ex-Cyber]

these GPU's can get hot enough to MELT SOLDER

I think a GPU would most likely crash or throttle well under the ~200C temps needed to actually melt common electronics solders. The only serious hypothesis I've seen in terms of heat ruining solder joints in the 360 is that thermal expansion/contraction might exert enough force to break some marginal joints.