Y-axis: Invert yay or nay?

grovsnus · Post by **grovsnus** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:10 pm

A dividing line runs right through the FPS crowd. But on which side stands the majority of players, and what causes the difference in preferences?

I only know one gamer in the flesh who plays with the Y-axis in the default setting, i.e not inverted. So to me, inverters seem more common.

I think the difference has to do with what the players imagines they are controlling when they play. I control the guy's head, so leaning back (stick down) equals looking up for me.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:37 pm

I only use inverted Y-axis when I'm playing stuff like Star Fox or plane simulators. For first person shooters I definitely use non-inverted, since I imagine controlling the crosshair on the screen.

cools · Post by **cools** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:37 pm

On an FPS, non-inverted. On a flight game (any type), inverted.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:50 pm

Depends on the person, If you are seeking a graphical example try http://www.halocharts.com/leaderboards. ... lerbyskill

and check controller layout on the leaderboards you will see that the majority of players do not play inverted for that specific game. (sensitivity and button layout are interesting aswell throughout the different skill ranges)

I think the choice is dependant on the players FPS history, particularly if they played alot of older FPS where the default was inverted + flight sims and stuff are traditionally inverted.

I have a question for anyone here myself

Q: Setting XBOX controller sensitivity to LOW or HIGH, does it really make a difference? You can do this by going into game defaults on your xbox dashboard and changing sensitivity from default medium etc. This is not done ingame. I came across this very long ago and tested it myself yet I found it detrimental to my aim.

Does this affect strafing distance? and/or allow more subtle and controlled 'Jerk' reflex movements. The strange thing is only the best players I know use this...... therefore there must be an advantage or some tradeoff. Technically it should affect button pressing.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:59 pm

cools wrote:On an FPS, non-inverted. On a flight game (any type), inverted.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:29 pm

Always non-inverted. Don't see a reason for that either.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:34 pm

Really depends on the game, and what I feel comfortable with.

For some reason I am leaning towards inverted Y-axis, since it feels more natural to me when playing (I said: feels to me, not: is!) a FPS.

Whenever I play a game were it's not default, I get confused in my first plays and adjust it asap if possible.

mr_m0nks · Post by **mr_m0nks** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:26 pm

What freaks me out is 3rd person games with an inverted X view axis.

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:30 pm

I play FPSes properly, with a mouse, so this question is irrelevant to me.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:40 pm

kengou wrote:I play FPSes properly, with a mouse, so this question is irrelevant to me.

Uh, no it's not.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:42 pm

captpain wrote:
kengou wrote:I play FPSes properly, with a mouse, so this question is irrelevant to me.
Uh, no it's not.

QFT!

Aru-san · Post by **Aru-san** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:46 pm

Jockel wrote:
cools wrote:On an FPS, non-inverted. On a flight game (any type), inverted.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:12 pm

Pushing up to go down never made any sense to me. Though I adapt if the devs are anal and don't give you control options and the game is worth it.

mortified_penguin · Post by **mortified_penguin** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:19 pm

Inverted all the way. Dropped that non-inverted shit after GoldenEye.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:29 pm

I think I play with it inverted, but I honestly can't remember. Despite the fact that I was playing FEAR 2 not five minutes ago - it's one of those things that I don't notice unless it feels wrong.

So, um, yeah. Whatever the default is in FEAR 2.

X axis camera movement in third-person games gets right on my tits. I'll get used to one way in one game, then I'll buy another game that has it the other way around and refuses to let you switch over. Then I'll get used to that, only for the next game to go back the way I was playing in the first one. Refusing to include customisable camera controls in third-person games should be a hanging offense.

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:44 pm

On the very rare occasion that I play a FPS, I have to use inverted. Mario 64 was my first 3D game, and I'm pretty sure the camera was inverted in that game.

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:52 pm

captpain wrote:
kengou wrote:I play FPSes properly, with a mouse, so this question is irrelevant to me.
Uh, no it's not.

I've never heard of anybody inverting the y-axis of a mouse...why the hell would anybody do that?

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:07 pm

Why is inverting a mouse any different than inverting a stick? I know I have to invert either way, although playing a FPS with a pad feels awkward no matter what.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:49 pm

I think it kind of depends on what you perceive the control as acting upon:

A regular Y-axis means you're mentally changing the point the camera is aiming at. This makes more sense for me personally since in FPS, mouse or whichever stick you're using to aim with is for aim, and the keyboard/other stick is for movement. Helps to keep them compartmentalized. Incidentally, I think the majority of players who are used to KB/M setups probably prefer a normal Y-axis when forced to use a stick.

An inverted Y-axis is conceptually more similar to tilting your head back -- so the camera is being rotated, rather than the target point being moved. This is somewhat more natural with a stick, since the movement of the stick relates to the motion of the head, and is also much more natural for flight games - not only because cockpits are designed like that, but because in most flight games, changing the POV means that the position and movement of the plane/ship are changed as well. Aiming up in a FPS will never make you move up (unless your character has a jetpack, is swimming, is in noclip mode etc), but in a flight game it does, so you tend to think about the movement of the plane as much as where the turrets are aiming.

bkk · Post by **bkk** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:37 am

Davey wrote:I know I have to invert either way, although playing a FPS with a pad feels awkward no matter what.

nem · Post by **nem** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:39 am

kengou wrote:
captpain wrote:
kengou wrote:I play FPSes properly, with a mouse, so this question is irrelevant to me.
Uh, no it's not.
I've never heard of anybody inverting the y-axis of a mouse...why the hell would anybody do that?

Because you're accustomed to it? When I push up on the mouse, I look down. It comes as second nature, and I can't play any other way.

Diabollokus wrote:I think the choice is dependant on the players FPS history, particularly if they played alot of older FPS where the default was inverted + flight sims and stuff are traditionally inverted.

I think this holds a lot of truth. I grew up with Flight Simulator, Wing Commander and X-Wing.

hermosaguy · Post by **hermosaguy** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:43 am

Ever since playing Tie Fighter back in the day, its always made sense in any FPS for me.

saucykobold · Post by **saucykobold** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:54 am

When given the choice, I always invert. For whatever reason, I simply can't play with the non-inverted setting.

(To be honest, most of my favorite FPS's don't have mouse look. Hurray for the old Doom engine games.)

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:15 am

Jockel wrote:
cools wrote:On an FPS, non-inverted. On a flight game (any type), inverted.

Chi_Ryu · Post by **Chi_Ryu** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:29 am

nem wrote:
Diabollokus wrote:I think the choice is dependant on the players FPS history, particularly if they played alot of older FPS where the default was inverted + flight sims and stuff are traditionally inverted.
I think this holds a lot of truth. I grew up with Flight Simulator, Wing Commander and X-Wing.

I disagree. I grew up with the same games (I whored Wing Commander, loved TIE Fighter (but found X Wing a bit 'meh'), and spent a lot of time on games like Falcon on the Amiga - FPS came later with Doom and Duke Nukem 3D), and even so I don't invert with mouse-based FPSs, only with flight stick-based simulators/combat games.

To me, flying a plane and pointing a gun are two very different tasks

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:57 am

kengou wrote:
captpain wrote:
kengou wrote:I play FPSes properly, with a mouse, so this question is irrelevant to me.
Uh, no it's not.
I've never heard of anybody inverting the y-axis of a mouse...why the hell would anybody do that?

Tons of people do it, which is why it's an option in nearly every FPS.

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:11 pm

grovsnus wrote:I control the guy's head, so leaning back (stick down) equals looking up for me.

Surely you mean the back of his head cause pushing down on the front would make him look down

Inverted is meant for flying games if you ask me.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:58 pm

Michaelm wrote:
grovsnus wrote:I control the guy's head, so leaning back (stick down) equals looking up for me.
Surely you mean the back of his head cause pushing down on the front would make him look down

Inverted is meant for flying games if you ask me.

People always say that they think of 'pushing' the back of the head down to look up.

To them, I ask: what about looking left and right?

D · Post by D » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:20 pm

Sorry to try to derail but THIS IS AWESOME!
http://kotaku.com/5300550/the-game-gun- ... e-is-crazy
crazy? ehhhh, no not at all. Pure genius!
I can't wait for wiimote monitors for sale for 99 $.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:30 pm

D wrote:Sorry to try to derail but THIS IS AWESOME!
http://kotaku.com/5300550/the-game-gun- ... e-is-crazy
crazy? ehhhh, no not at all. Pure genius!
I can't wait for wiimote monitors for sale for 99 $.

Imagine that in ARMA2 with TRACKIR as well. If it worked... Nerdgasm.

shmups.system11.org

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