More Hope for a Ketsui Port

[Wanderer]

Insert Credit and the guys at click-stick.com are reporting that Arika's VP is trying to get Sony's approval to port Ketsui under the Arika label for the PS3. Unforunately he is having trouble with the Sony approval part.

This is a prime example of the theory that the next gen systems will not be 2-d/retro friendly. I guess having a 2-D PS3 game as a launch title would not be an ideal showcase game and would confuse the average gamer into thinking the system is graphical inferior than the X-Box 360.

[BulletMagnet]

If this is true, then I hope if the PS3 thing doesn't work out he'll consider trying the ol' PS2.

[Kiken]

If this is true, then I hope if the PS3 thing doesn't work out he'll consider trying the ol' PS2.

The PS2 is under-powered for the newer modes that are being considered for the game as the guy stated that he doesn't want to simply do a straight port (much like the prior releases, they want to add additional modes for the home market). Apparently, they want to put Mushihime-sama's Ultra Mode to shame.

[slateman]

PS2 is underpowered huh? That is pretty wild to think....and if that's the case, I don't see Ketsui making it then.

If we all remember the PS1 days, Sony was really a pain in the ass when it came to 2D. Ultimately they allowed games to come out, but it was like pulling teeth initially.

I don't see it happening unfortunately, if it's not on PS2. And if they decided to come out w/ it, but not make it a launch title, the game will be 5 years old by the time it comes out!

Crossing fingers, again...not holding breath.

[iatneH]

Ultimately they allowed games to come out, but it was like pulling teeth initially.

That's why you stab 'em with the needle first :D

PS2 or PS3, I'm hoping it comes through for either one, although I'm sure eventually I'll buy the PCB, high prices be damned.

[Metal Gear Okt]

I'd love to see what someone like Cave or Treasure could do with System 3xx arcade hardware.

Just think of what Treasure accomplished with 5 guys working on Naomi*.



*the correct answer would be Ikaruga.

[BulletMagnet]

The PS2 is under-powered for the newer modes that are being considered for the game as the guy stated that he doesn't want to simply do a straight port (much like the prior releases, they want to add additional modes for the home market).

Hmm...they did okay with ESPGaluda, extra bullet-infested mode included...wonder what on Earth they'd want to do with Ketsui that would put it over the limit.

[Wanderer]

I say Arika should swallow their pride, reel in their ambitions, and just release Ketsui with tamer extra modes for the PS2. Better than fighting a losing battle with the 300 lb. gorilla.

[zakk]

Before everyone piles on the Sony hate train, this isn't what it seems. The difficult part is getting dev kits from Sony. Sony has already publically stated they're starting to run out of parts for the dev kits, so obviously a small company like Arika isn't going to be high on the priority list for getting one right now. They'll get one eventually. This isn't a case of Sony holding some sort of anti-2d stance, this is just a matter of them preferring to give the "scarce" dev kits to developers who are more likely to produce a game that sells well. And a port of Ketsui would not 'sell well' by those standards. Hence they wait.

[TVG]

OMG 2D SONY WTFZORS LOL BAD

TEH SKY IS FALLIGN!!!!!

[Ghegs]

I say Arika should swallow their pride, reel in their ambitions, and just release Ketsui with tamer extra modes for the PS2. Better than fighting a losing battle with the 300 lb. gorilla.

Agreed, but mostly because I want to play Ketsui as soon as possible, extra modes be damned. Arrange Mode in Galuda and Death Label in DOJ have received very little attention from me.

Perhaps with the next-gen consoles on the way, more 2D games will start appearing on the current-gen ones. Mainstream focus will be on [insert next-gen system of choice here] so the big guys might be much more willing to allow niche titles appearing on their current systems. Cheaper licensing fees too I'd guess, making it all the more appealing for developers and publishers. Hell, we still get the occasional PS1 game released. Budget titles, of course.

[Wanderer]

This isn't a case of Sony holding some sort of anti-2d stance, this is just a matter of them preferring to give the "scarce" dev kits to developers who are more likely to produce a game that sells well. And a port of Ketsui would not 'sell well' by those standards. Hence they wait.

Well Ketsui would not sell well because it's 2-D and looks like it's 15 years old. Not giving up the DEV kits because Ketsui would not sell well is still an anti-2D stance.

[zakk]

It's not 'anti-2d' at all. It's purely a smart allocation of resources. If someone was trying to make a crappy 3d game that had no hope of selling well, they wouldn't be getting dev kits right now either. The obvious priority goes to dev houses that have produced good selling games on the PS2, or have produced games that sold well on other consoles.

If Sony wasn't running out of dev-kit parts AND they were still denying Arika a dev-kit, then yes, that would be an anti-2d stance.

[Ghegs]

This isn't a case of Sony holding some sort of anti-2d stance, this is just a matter of them preferring to give the "scarce" dev kits to developers who are more likely to produce a game that sells well. And a port of Ketsui would not 'sell well' by those standards. Hence they wait.

Well Ketsui would not sell well because it's 2-D and looks like it's 15 years old. Not giving up the DEV kits because Ketsui would not sell well is still an anti-2D stance.

Put down the torch and look at this objectively. With three new systems on the way, every company wants their console's launch games to look stunning to entice the public. Having a launch title looking like something from 10 years ago would be a PR horror.

Besides, it's an unwritten rule that launch titles always look gorgeus but the gameplay is only so-so at best.

[Recap]

Not giving up the DEV kits because Ketsui would not sell well is still an anti-2D stance.

Quite right. What seems pretty clear is that Mihara has gotten the rights to develope a Ketsui port from Cave. Knowing they already have the engine done (DOJ, Espgaluda), I can see Ketsui coming for the PS2. He is busy on the forthcoming XB360 Tetris the Grandmaster and a game based in Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicles at the moment, so let's give him some time.

[Metal Gear Okt]

Does anyone know what the budget was for something like Ikaruga or Mushi?

We should all chip in a bit and commission a top-tier shmup on PS3 hardware.

[Balzac]

Put down the torch and look at this objectively. With three new systems on the way, every company wants their console's launch games to look stunning to entice the public. Having a launch title looking like something from 10 years ago would be a PR horror.

You mean like Gradius III + IV during the PS2 launch?

[Ghegs]

You mean like Gradius III + IV during the PS2 launch?

That was a launch title? Shiver me timbers.

[Metal Gear Okt]

You mean like Gradius III + IV during the PS2 launch?

A better example would be Silpheed, which was the best looking shmup by far when it came out, but it played like crap.

G3&4 wasn't at launch, but it was released shortly afterwards.

[Dylan1CC]

Ya gotta love Arika for trying, and for making effort to put in new modes. But hopefully this means they'll try a PS2 port instead which the dolts at Sony would care less about.

Will be interesting to see how the PS3 will be for shmup ports, if they keep up this attitude maybe Cave and friends will start putting their ports on 360 (we can only hope somewhere else if it gets bad) since J Allard (a Gradius fan) and the MS game crew are much friendlier to old school games and their fans.

That reminds me, shout out: "Hey SNK-Playmore. Please stop wasting your time with Sony's red tape and just committ to 360 already!"

[Recap]

Ya gotta love Arika for trying, and for making effort to put in new modes. But hopefully this means they'll try a PS2 port instead which the dolts at Sony would care less about.

Will be interesting to see how the PS3 will be for shmup ports, if they keep up this attitude maybe Cave and friends will start putting their ports on 360 (we can only hope somewhere else if it gets bad) since J Allard (a Gradius fan) and the MS game crew are much friendlier to old school games and their fans.

That reminds me, shout out: "Hey SNK-Playmore. Please stop wasting your time with Sony's red tape and just committ to 360 already!"

That would be the worst thing which could happen to the 2D gamers community, thoe. The 360 won't have true low res video modes to display these games properly, while we don't know if the PS3 will have them. Also, the MS system won't sell well enough in Japan, which is where these games have buyers.

[Metal Gear Okt]

Ya gotta love Arika for trying, and for making effort to put in new modes. But hopefully this means they'll try a PS2 port instead which the dolts at Sony would care less about.

Will be interesting to see how the PS3 will be for shmup ports, if they keep up this attitude maybe Cave and friends will start putting their ports on 360 (we can only hope somewhere else if it gets bad) since J Allard (a Gradius fan) and the MS game crew are much friendlier to old school games and their fans.

That reminds me, shout out: "Hey SNK-Playmore. Please stop wasting your time with Sony's red tape and just committ to 360 already!"

Yeah, as cool as MS has been with SNK in japan, these devs still need to target Playstation as their primary platform to make any money in japan.

That would be the worst thing which could happen to the 2D gamers community, thoe. The 360 won't have true low res video modes to display these games properly, while we don't know if the PS3 will have them. Also, the MS system won't sell well enough in Japan, which is where these games have buyers.

You know, it's not like anyone would complain if these guys were forced to use high-res sprites.

[crithit5000]

You know, it's not like anyone would complain if these guys were forced to use high-res sprites.

Wouldn't bug me at all, but you know there'll be at least 5 purists crying foul over it...

[Recap]

You know, it's not like anyone would complain if these guys were forced to use high-res sprites.

They won't be using "high-res sprites", thoe, just low-res ones upscaled and filtered, which, fortunately, has more and more detractors with the time. People is getting educated.

[Metal Gear Okt]

You know, it's not like anyone would complain if these guys were forced to use high-res sprites.

They won't be using "high-res sprites", thoe, just low-res ones upscaled and filtered, which, fortunately, has more and more detractors with the time. People is getting educated.

I'm thinking like the truly high-res spritework ASW did for Guilty Gear or Square did for Unlimited Saga.

They look nice.

[Recap]

I'm thinking like the truly high-res spritework ASW did for Guilty Gear or Square did for Unlimited Saga.

They look nice.

But we were speaking about ports of old/low-res games, like the ones from Cave or the Neo-Geo, which is where a 360 would suck.

By the way, is Unlimited Saga fully in 2D?

[Metal Gear Okt]

I'm thinking like the truly high-res spritework ASW did for Guilty Gear or Square did for Unlimited Saga.

They look nice.

But we were speaking about ports of old/low-res games, like the ones from Cave or the Neo-Geo, which is where a 360 would suck.

By the way, is Unlimited Saga fully in 2D?

Heh. Almost entirely, yeah. The towns and dungeon maps are all 2d. In battle, the characters are all sprites, but they're on a 3d plane. Some of the spell effects are 3d as well.

Mind you, the sprites are wonderful hi-res 2d, but there's virtually no animation, so keep that in mind.

Isn't Mushi supposed to be using some souped-up engine with higher res sprites?

[Recap]

Heh. Almost entirely, yeah. The towns and dungeon maps are all 2d. In battle, the characters are all sprites, but they're on a 3d plane. Some of the spell effects are 3d as well.

Mind you, the sprites are wonderful hi-res 2d, but there's virtually no animation, so keep that in mind.

P-Asia has it cheap, but nobody spoke well about it at its moment. What about you?

Isn't Mushi supposed to be using some souped-up engine with higher res sprites?

Huh?

[Metal Gear Okt]

Heh. Almost entirely, yeah. The towns and dungeon maps are all 2d. In battle, the characters are all sprites, but they're on a 3d plane. Some of the spell effects are 3d as well.

Mind you, the sprites are wonderful hi-res 2d, but there's virtually no animation, so keep that in mind.

P-Asia has it cheap, but nobody spoke well about it at its moment. What about you?

I got it for $10 at Bestbuy, and the dozen or so hours I've put into it are worthwhile. It basically tears down all of the video game RPG conventions that we've become used to since Dragon Warrior, and re-starts from D&D. Dungeons involve moving a "piece" that represents your party one space at a time. Every time you reach a new space, you can use party skills to disarm traps and find treasure. Occasionally, you'll encounter monsters. You have hit points, which you recover by resting a turn, but they're merely a buffer for your "life points", which can only be refilled in town. You don't even "level up" as much as earn new skills and refine your equipment after each dungeon. Also, it's brutally hard and short on save points. If you have an open mind, it's totally worth it.

Isn't Mushi supposed to be using some souped-up engine with higher res sprites?

Huh?

Mushihimesama is running on Type-X instead of a Cave PCB, right? I figured they'd put that extra power to some use.

[neojma]

Will be interesting to see how the PS3 will be for shmup ports, if they keep up this attitude maybe Cave and friends will start putting their ports on 360 (we can only hope somewhere else if it gets bad) since J Allard (a Gradius fan) and the MS game crew are much friendlier to old school games and their fans.

Actually, I'd say Nintendo might be an even better second choice outlet for shmups than X360 (though neither would be as ideal as PS3). Reasons:

- N seems to be big on the philosophy of having games that are easy to get into and can be enjoyed in a short gameplay session
- the system may not be as powerful as PS3 or X360, but it's still more advanced than current consoles
- If I had to guess, I'd say Japanese support of Revolution will be stronger than Japanese X360 support. X360 is still a western console that is unproven in Japan, and the shmup genre is very Japan-centric.

Would PS3 make most sense business wise for shmup makers? Yeah. Guaranteed huge user base, so more possible sales. Plus the inertia effect - PS2 is the current console of choice, so devs tend to put similar games on the successor system. I still say this paranoia about Sony might be unfounded, and there are a lot of reasons that ports of 2D arcade shmups might end up being viable on PS3.

Think about this too... we are talking about JAPAN here. It's pretty much a given that Ketsui is never going to get a US console release. In Japan, there's still a decent market for shmups. Look at the arcade scene, where if you go into a Japanese arcade shmups are some of the most popular and prominent titles. So in Japan, there is still a desire to play shmups (unlike most of the US). There's also a lack of next gen shmups. It might actually be a good selling point for PS3 to have an arcade style shmup in the lineup. If nothing else, it points to the fact that PS3 will cater to Japanese tastes and niche genres, while X360 has the same western style 3D action games that the Japanese have never really gone crazy over.

Some of us seem to be forgetting that while flashy graphics are always a system seller wherever you are, it's much more pronounced in the US. Japanese players still support graphically "inferior" titles like simulation games, shmups, and the like much more than Americans do. Don't get me wrong - the Japanese players will be wowed by graphics too, but it's not the be-all end-all factor like it is in the US.

As for previous Sony console launches, there have been 2D shmups near/at launch for both PSX (Raiden Project) and PS2 (Silpheed, Gradius III & IV). Sony seems to like familiarity in launch lineups and trying to put something to cater to fans of most genres. Look at Ridge Racer for PSX, RRV for PS2, and RR for PSP.

As for this "anti-2D" talk, I say it's hogwash. SCEJ hasn't ever been very anti-2D. PS2 still has loads of full priced 2D fighters and shooters with not a peep from SCEJ. When I'm importing full price stuff like Metal Slug 3, Rumble Fish, King of Fighters 2003 (solo full priced release), Samurai Shodown Zero, Dragon Blaze, etc.... Well, I find it hard to say SCEJ is really showing an anti-2D stance. Now, in AMERICA it's a different story. But we aren't talking about SCEA here - it's already fairly obvious that Ketsui ain't coming here.