Ketsui - is 2009 finally the year? - YES

[jpj]

will 2009 finally be the year that Ketsui manages to break into the forum's top 25 shmups of all time?

someone did a similar thread last year for nexzr, and i think the time is right to start a campaign for this little gem of a game

now, that's not to say that i am a "stan" or whathaveyou. but despite this game's value rising to almost 150% of what i paid for it, i just can't bring myself to sell it. and money isn't everything.

i don't like to sell anything before i feel that i really wont enjoy it any more, or play it with any kind of conviction. and ketsui has that rare quality of being simple to pick up and play, whilst challenging enough to never be easy. it has the difficulty to curve just absolutely correct. and while i see a lot of people talk about DOJ as this "hard as nails" game, i actually have more trouble with ketsui. especially in stages 4 and 5!

for my money, cave's games from the PGM hardware era of 2002/2003 - dai-ou-jou, ketsui, espgaluda - were there best years. not to say they don't make good games before or after. but those three games are just back-to-back quality, and shows a stg developer really at the top of their game

cave's games (and particularly the ikeda made games) are quite formulaic. but at the same time it's a winning and popular formula. 5 stages, 2 loops, and a bad-ass motherfucker TLB. and while there are plenty of cave games in that mould, ketsui is in my opinion, their most polished game

scoring and chaining was simplified. and with the ingenious chip value system, to reap good scores you'd often have to shoot enemies at point-blank range (point-blanking is bad-ass). the graphics were sharp, and each stage has it's own flavour. the enemy and ship designs are top notch. the music is probably one of the best cave have ever done (and probably the 2nd best piece of work namiki has done, after garegga), stage 4 is a particular highlight for me.

so you get this military themed shooter, were you pilot a helicopter that shoots enemy ships (in the face!) with a great soundtrack, and there's the bullet patterns..!

i'm always gonna be pro- any game that uses light blue and pink bullets, i just think visually it works really well. firstly it means enemies and bosses can have two distinct bullet patterns going on at the same, without it becoming a garbled mess. and secondly they "pop" off the screen without blending into any of the backgrounds. and this game really has some of the most unique and fun to dodge bullet patterns i've ever seen

and then you have DOOM. i mean that is just one of the most iconic shmup bosses of all time. cooler than blackheart maybe.

all in all, i just think everything comes together cohesively so well. and while some may see it as a "by the numbers" cave game, there really isn't much to fault with it, unless danmaku is just really not your thing. i think the gunshot sound when you enter a credit, as well as the gameover scream, will stay etched into my psyche for a long time

i don't take these polls too seriously, as ultimately the "best" games don't necessarily win. a game that was localised in europe and the US has a much higher chance of being voted for than a game which hasn't. and in the same way, a non-emulated game which has no console port will have an even slimmer chance. i'm not saying you need to love it like your spouse, but ketsui is a far superior danmaku shooter than something like dodonpachi, in almost every single aspect. and i do genuinely think it deserves to be on that top 25

some links for great justice

mrmonkeyman vs doom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU_T22FmIfQ

ketsu - it brings people together!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF7XDTqlz9w

WOA ketsui page (screencaps, artwork, and more!):
http://world-of-arcades.net/Cave/Ketsui/Ketsui.htm
(click the little stereo for mp3 tracks )

drboom's review:
http://www.cave-stg.com/reviews/ketsui.html

insomnia.ac review: (may or may not be original work)
http://insomnia.ac/reviews/custom/ketsui/

the infamous review:
http://www.insertcredit.com/reviews/ketsui/


so ... will this be the year?

perhaps not. maybe the mods will allow ketsui and ketsui death label votes to be counted together (in the same way they do for ibara and ibara black label - which are entirely different), or maybe it wont get enough support til at least 2010, by which time the 360 port will be out.

...speaking of which, it's no surprise that 5pb paid out the ass to get the licence from cave to port a 2D shooter from seven years ago. or why mihara worked so long and hard to make a consumer version of ketsui. because it really is very good. one of the top shmups of all time, in fact...

***************************

edit:

just to clear up any misinformation regarding ketsui appearing in mame, i'd like to post the facts, correct as of today (23/04/2009):

Guru has the Ketsui PCB.
It is not dumped.
It has protection which needs a lot of work.
MAMEDEV will most likely NOT emulate any of the newer CAVE games for many years.
Guru could dump the PCB tomorrow but since MAMEDEV have no interest in emulating it there is no point.

Quote from Guru: "I do very much appreciate them offering the Ketsui PCB. I will take great care of it and eventually their patience will be rewarded."

[sven666]

i concur

[agustusx]

i'm not saying you need to love it like your spouse, but ketsui is a far superior danmaku shooter than something like dodonpachi, in almost every single aspect.

Hopefully this year I can debate that with you, as it stands Ketsui is the equivalent of vaporware.

I completely agree on your statements that games that are not emulated or not localized for console in US or Europe may not make the shmups top list, but it makes perfect sense doesn't it Personally I want to play MMP more than Ketsui. However since MMP is not accessible(for less than 1.5G), I can say it's viable that Ketsui will rank in my top list next year, while MMP maintains the vaporware title.

I have heard critiques back both ways Ketsui, so I will not be disappointing if I find it's not in my top 10, or even 25 for that matter. I do believe it will be another quality shmup to add to the library, and hopefully 5pb will not ruin my only experience with the title...

[jpj]

if 5pb get it right, it's a game worth importing a jp 360 for let's just hope they take their time, and have used BLEX as a learning experience

[charlie chong]

i hope the port is shit but that the rom gets dumped..
that way all the console owners who are too elitist to play mame (oh noez no physical object to wank over) are the only ones who lose out

the one thing i've been thinking the last few days myself is that the 1st loop difficulty curve is perfect for a player such as myself. there's no real severe difficulty spikes the whole game even tho it's tricky all the way through and even feels alien at first. a game like espgaluda i got to the last boss really really quickly but then discovered he's a real labourous pain to beat and still haven't beaten (same with esperade!!) despite practising a fair bit.. ketsui has taken well over a month to get headway into the 5th level but with practising the last boss via credit feeding i have found him to be a much more fun boss and one that i can definitely beat through practise without it becoming frustrating.i like this because in a lot of cave games i can get to the last boss but then i get shat on.

the pacing of the pgm cave games is better as well. espgaluda 2 ,mushi ,muchi etc all seem to have overlong levels which make it harder to memorize enemy placement etc.

a game the same intensity as d.o.j with a score system that lets you decide how hard to push coupled with military artstyle and a non vomit inducing soundtrack is win..


THAT IS ALL

[Ruldra]

if 5pb get it right

They won't. Sakari said in an interview that he thinks extra features (X mode and new characters) are more important in a port than accuracy with the arcade version, and people who really care about that accuracy should just play in the arcade or buy the PCBs.

Guess I'll have to wait for it on MAME.

[Danbo]

I would very much like to play this game.

[jonny5]

agreed on all points....

i honestly do look forward to the port...even if its not stellar, simply so more people can experience the game....

as jpj and charlie said, its so well balanced....the risk/reward is perfect, the difficulty curve rises steadily without major spikes, the graphics,especially the backgrounds, are sooooo polished.....the detail is borderline distracting

and then there is the bullets/bullet patterns.....as jpj mentioned, due to the coloring of the bullets they almost seem to pop off the screen.....simply jaw dropping.....and very fun patterns to play through

and the fact that the scoring system allows you to play how you want, it allows the player to decide when and where they wanna go for score and when they wanna lay back.....it makes it quite fun to learn because you dont necessarily have to memorize runs right away....

so ya.....caves best game by far imo(futari semi-close 2nd)....perfect for players of all skill levels.....i dont know if the port is gonna make it out in time for this years list, but i would almost guarantee that as long as it isnt as broken as BLEX ketsui will finally see the top 25 list for next year

the only reason ketsui is 'hyped' is because not enough people have played it, so you have a few people singing its praise and the rest doubting the claims....as more people experience it i think peoples opinions will change and ketsui will finally get the respect it deserves....

[markedkiller78]

It's in my top 10 (probably top 5) but I think there are better games for less / equal amounts of money. That alone is my only complaint about this game, it's just too expensive right now.

I have to admit that Ketsui is one of a handful of games that had the "I must buy this" factor. When it was described as DDP only better I needed to try it out. The music is probably caves best, especially the bosses, the mechanics are simple to pick up hard to master (a perfect combination for arcade games) the graphics top notch, the pace........

Overall it's an ecxcellent game, but I think my skill level was a bit on the low side when I owned this & when a trade for MF1.5 came up, which is much more accessable (Original & Maniac) & was another I wanted to play, I jumped at the chance.

I don't regret trading Ketsui for MF1.5, but I do regret selling MF1.5. That says it all for me. It's a game I would like to replace for £500-550 but anything over that it's too much

[charlie chong]

I would very much like to play this game.

where do you stay in scotland danbo?? me n mark meet up sometimes to play some games once in a while. you more than welcome to come and sample some ketsui !!

[jpj]

i was trying to think how to explain about the bullet patterns, and (i think) in one of the reviews i linked, someone used the word "organic", and that fits quite well. and it's because the bullets during boss fights aren't always travelling in straight trajectories. that's not to say their movement is random either, or gravity affected (think 2nd boss of progear). their movement is pre-determined, but it can be in hypnotic swirling circular patterns. i think that's what stands out for me

and yeah, i remain sceptical ruldra maybe he will do something interesting with the X mode

another aspect i forgot to mention, which i really like (i don't know if any other cave game does this actually) is that one level will stream instantly into the next. in the same way that outrun 2 isn't so much a collection of tracks as it is one *massive* track (which is why squeezing it onto the original xbox was quite difficult for sumo ^_~ random factoid), there are no static backgrounds in ketsui. you don't play a level, get a black screen and tally up your bonus, then the next level. with ketsui a small series of stats fly across while one level rolls right into the next. the whole game just has a nice flow to it

[Plasmo]

in the same way they do for ibara and ibara black label

WTF?! Why not count Dodonpachi and Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou as the same game?

[emphatic]

Over-rated.

The level 2 music is my favorite game soundtrack right now. Sometimes when I'm out walking I start to whistle it without even noticing at first.

*off to create a new top hat avatar*

[ave]

It's one of my favourite shooting games of all time and judging by Cave current aims, it will always be like that. There are few others that can compete (although there are, really) with the quality I always feel confronted when I play Ketsui.

Kudos from me. And top hat power as well.

[LaserGun]

*waiting VERY patiently for Ketsui and DOJ to be added to mame*

[captpain]

Is that Insert Credit review a sneaky troll? I mean... wow.

[Jockel]

*waiting VERY patiently for Ketsui and DOJ to be added to mame*

Seems like you'll have to wait a lot longer... :/

[Danbo]

*waiting VERY patiently for Ketsui and DOJ to be added to mame*

There was a ton of drama about that and it seems like nobody has a really clear idea about what's going on with Ketsui, myself included. First, Arika contacted the mame team while they were developing the ps2 port (later canned because the ps2 couldn't handle some oddity with the background) and told them to cease development of the WIP driver. Then, some people put up a fund to buy a PCB to send to the guru for dumping, but he didn't dump it for whatever reason. Someone'll probably have to correct me on this stuff, though.

[jpj]

i think there is a ton of encryption on those PGM cave boards. i wouldn't hold your breath on that one

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

is it confirmed that Mihara is working with 5pb on the 360 port???

[Chi_Ryu]

as it stands Ketsui is the equivalent of vaporware.

Funny. For vapourware, I've certainly had a lot of fun playing it these past few years...

Anyway, great game - *even* the fact that icycalm raved about it being great doesn't put me off loving this game (though given his form, he probably saw someone play it once, whilst he was sitting reading Wittgenstein). I'm a sucker for military themed shooters, slow moving homing bullets that accelerate, and stage 3 is just crystallised <3 (the swirling bullet sprays from the boss, and the two scrolling reversals make me smile every time. Plus the battleship-theme reminds me of Flying Shark's stage 3, and I love Flying Shark). Beautiful soundtrack (not quite as good as Ibara's, but pretty feckin good nonetheless).

The scoring system is simple enough to pick up (as with Progear), but gives plenty of satisfaction when you find a new way to liberate reams of 5-chips - and rewarding close proximity to enemies without requiring bullet buzzing.

Oh, and Panzer Jager rocks.

APPROACH YOUR TARGET AND ATTACK - YOUR MISSION STARTS NOW... ARE YOU READY?

Is that Insert Credit review a sneaky troll? I mean... wow.

It was a preview - i.e. not worth anything. The previewer even claims it is an easy game since he got to stage 3 on his first credit - pff.

[moozooh]

is it confirmed that Mihara is working with 5pb on the 360 port???

I remember him expressing the will to do so, and I sure hope he does. His expertise on the subject is second only to Cave developers themselves.

[jonny5]

as it stands Ketsui is the equivalent of vaporware.

Funny. For vapourware, I've certainly had a lot of fun playing it these past few years...

Anyway, great game - *even* the fact that icycalm raved about it being great doesn't put me off loving this game (though given his form, he probably saw someone play it once, whilst he was sitting reading Wittgenstein). I'm a sucker for military themed shooters, slow moving homing bullets that accelerate, and stage 3 is just crystallised <3 (the swirling bullet sprays from the boss, and the two scrolling reversals make me smile every time. Plus the battleship-theme reminds me of Flying Shark's stage 3, and I love Flying Shark). Beautiful soundtrack (not quite as good as Ibara's, but pretty feckin good nonetheless).

The scoring system is simple enough to pick up (as with Progear), but gives plenty of satisfaction when you find a new way to liberate reams of 5-chips - and rewarding close proximity to enemies without requiring bullet buzzing.

Oh, and Panzer Jager rocks.

APPROACH YOUR TARGET AND ATTACK - YOUR MISSION STARTS NOW... ARE YOU READY?

Is that Insert Credit review a sneaky troll? I mean... wow.

It was a preview - i.e. not worth anything. The previewer even claims it is an easy game since he got to stage 3 on his first credit - pff.

probably with a score under 5mil too

[ave]

probably with a score under 5mil too

Yeah, fucking losers!

[jonny5]

indeed....i just wish i could figure out some way to get my cab to accept $100 bills....100yen really isnt enough per credit

[cools]

i was trying to think how to explain about the bullet patterns, and (i think) in one of the reviews i linked, someone used the word "organic", and that fits quite well. and it's because the bullets during boss fights aren't always travelling in straight trajectories. that's not to say their movement is random either, or gravity affected (think 2nd boss of progear). their movement is pre-determined, but it can be in hypnotic swirling circular patterns. i think that's what stands out for me

This is the one thing that really puts me off, otherwise I'd likely have lumped up the cash for a board to try out already.

Not trying to start an argument, I vastly prefer shooters that rely on your skill rather than those which rely on your memory. If your skill is great enough, I reckon a first credit 1CC should be achievable. Of course, no-ones that good, and in most cases, memory is a welcome addition to skill. But that feeling that the possibility is there is wiped out with a single moment of "WTF the damn bullet just changed direction".

[agustusx]

as it stands Ketsui is the equivalent of vaporware.

Funny. For vapourware, I've certainly had a lot of fun playing it these past few years...

I supposed I could have been more explicit and stated its "like vaporware to me", but it was late and I was assuming most would read between the lines.

As its stands, with no way for me to access many "top" shmups I have to question their value until I can play them. Without personal experience on them, its very similar to vaporware that sounds great, has promo vids and screenshots but is never released.

I'm glad you've been able to enjoy the game.

[freddiebamboo]

Whatever happened to that Guru dude who was going to do something technical so we could all play it on mame?

[jpj]

But that feeling that the possibility is there is wiped out with a single moment of "WTF the damn bullet just changed direction".

if you try it first hand, i think it's a lot more intuitive than you expect. the curved trajectory of some bullet patterns just makes things more tense!

it is defnitely not like progear's 2nd and 3rd boss though, where a bullet can be travelling one way, and just change with the "wind" or gravity or whatever. you don't get a lot of cheap deaths in ketsui, i don't think

******************

the top 25 poll finishes in just under four weeks. even though submissions aren't final, i'd like to thank the following voters for voting YES to proposition Ketsui: szycag, myself, RGC, Icarus, powerfuran, charlie chong, and Gwyrgyn Blood. these votes were all done before the inception of the KDF as well

[Chi_Ryu]

I have to question their value until I can play them. Without personal experience on them

And quite rightly, too. People who judge a game (whether to say it's good or bad) they've never played (HI ZWEIHANDER ) are like people who judge a book by it's cover... and we all know what the old proverb says.

However, at the end of the day Ketsui rocks - whether you are skeptical, or not. Ketsui doesn't care either way.