Sought After DVDs: what are they?

KindGrind · Post by **KindGrind** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:47 pm

thegreathopper wrote:I have 400 blows and silence of the lambs among others on Criterion, do these still have any value?

400 Blows gets a Criterion Blu-ray release in March, so the value will pretty much drop on this one. It's still worth about 15$. Silence of the Lambs went down a lot since teh DVD began to be bootlegged. People are scared to get one, pretty much like Dead Ringers. You could get 20$ or so for it on Ebay.

By the way, if you're remotely interested in modern cinema, treat yourself with the Criterion Blu-ray of Chungking Express. 2 clear advantages: you don't havae to see Tarantino's ugly mug every time you want to watch the movie and the transfer's totally awesome.

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:02 am

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:The Criterion Collection version of Videodrome is worth taking a look at compared to the regular DVD release of the same name. Comes chock full of extras on a two DVD set...

My favourite extra on that is the discussion session with David Cronenberg, John Carpenter and John Landis all talking about their films. Great stuff.

brokenhalo · Post by **brokenhalo** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:03 am

lol at movie reels. movie reels aren't first gen either. you can keep printing copies off the master til the end of time. what you really need to do is buy the original media the director used in his camera. that's as real as it gets.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:23 am

Buying a second-hand Saturn isn't the same as buying that Minty Fresh (TM) Saturn with the drive that spins up just like new, plus you get that good factory scent.

What happens when your projector equipment is better than Orson Welles would have seen in the theaters of the 40s? Or watching original Star Trek episodes in HD, for that matter?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:09 am

I think you didn't understand what I wrote. Those DvDs aren't the "real thing". The real thing would be original movie reels used in cinemas (of course collecting them isn't ideal either, since they noticably degrade with time).

By that logic, I must collect source code to have "the real thing" in the games world. You can use Cave to argue both sides of the subject (but the side that says collecting anything is okay wins). They reprint loads of shit... and loads they don't. Here we are 10 years down the road w/ no DDP Campaign version, DDP poster, or Progear poster. The first is apparently IKD's unborn child, the 2nd is likely to happen, and the 3rd beautifully illustrates points already made in this thread: copyright issues.

The error in your logic is that you're trying to dictate how the market *SHOULD* price things... not how they do. It's simple supply & demand. If there's a demand, the price will rise. Look at the prices of beta games (on CD-R no doubt) on Yahoo Japan. They can clear thousands, b/c it's the data on the inside that's important, not the media. And for the record, I have plenty of "rare mp3s".

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:09 pm

I know very well how the market works. And let's disregard for a moment that any form of collecting may be a form of insanity.

You skipped the part where I wrote that DvDs are mere approximations.

Your Super Mario cartridge for NES is the real deal, and Nintendo won't make any more. Each console generation is relatively short-lived, each system has a relatively limited circulation (from a global perspective) and naturally there is no general game system standard; you can't play NES cartridges on your Xbox 360. And about your example, how many people are even interested in 20-year old game prototypes for obscure systems?

However, movies and music is something that roughly 6 Billion people enjoy. DvD is a worldwide standard supported by ALL companies that sell movies to consumers; virtually every modern household with a TV has a DvD-player, and the next generations of media players will retain backwards compatibility. Companies around the world will continue to produce and re-release movie DvDs for many years to come, and you'll still be able to buy new devices to play your DvDs in decades (as long as there is demand, and as long as those DvDs last).

And every time one generation of digital media reaches the end of its life cycle, those corporations who retain the rights to the movies will start making even better digital approximations for the next generation of players (Isn't it awesome how they can sell the same thing again and again?)
And suddenly your once priced super ultra deluxe version of Robocop with an exclusive interview with the guy who wiped the floor while they were shooting the movie will look like crap in comparison to that new uber-HD version on your new uber-HD TV.
And that is why I think that paying lots of money for "rare" movies isn't exactly bright, because the movies themselves aren't really rare at all.
Cave won't make any more Ketsui PCBs, but you can bet your ass that Robocop will be re-released. And look even better next time.

Lordstar · Post by **Lordstar** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:23 pm

thsts one of the most anal comments ive ever read. You have out done yourself there!

what about strait to DVD movies? are they origianl or or they still an aproximation? Arcade ports on the nes are also in the same catagory?
never mind dont answer that its a silly retort.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:13 pm

As Rob said: "Lordstar makes threads x2 worse."

Here's a new one:

Lordstar: Single-handedly lowering the forum's average IQ by 50 points.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:26 pm

be nice guys
-my 1500th post

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:43 pm

Nice 1500th post

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:20 pm

I recall reading in my local newspaper about a theft of a Star Wars Episode I movie reel when it was playing nationwide back in May of 1999. The damn thing weighs an even 44 pounds. It is virtually worthless if stolen and still is considered official property of George Lucas/ILM. Whoever stole it, quietly returned it back after learning of the SW Ep. 1 movie reel theft. Some crazy-ass and stupid shit right there. ILM's lawyers are around for a reason. ^_~

So to own a theatrical 35mm movie reel print of said movie...that is quite something but still heavy nevertheless. There is a market for this type of medium. ^_~

Some movies nowdays are delivered via encrypted HDD medium with accompanying CD sound track (sometimes) and requires a USB dongle with said matching encryption key for proper playback (without it, you can't play the said HDD version of the film anyways) -- loseless format by going that particular route for the movie studio system today (especially with those cool all-digital theater projection systems like the Texas Instruments' DLP one). The traditional movie theaters with the traditional 35mm projection systems are slowly going the way of the dinosaur. All digital format for most major Hollywood movie releases is consider the wave of the future. ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Dragoforce · Post by **Dragoforce** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:30 pm

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:I recall reading in my local newspaper about a theft of a Star Wars Episode I movie reel when it was playing nationwide back in May of 1999. The damn thing weighs an even 44 pounds. It is virtually worthless if stolen and still is considered official property of George Lucas/ILM. Whoever stole it, quietly returned it back after learning of the SW Ep. 1 movie reel theft. Some crazy-ass and stupid shit right there. ILM's lawyers are around for a reason. ^_~

So to own a theatrical 35mm movie reel print of said movie...that is quite something but still heavy nevertheless. There is a market for this type of medium.

I worked part time at a film festival last year carrying movie reels (among other things) and those fuckers really weigh a ton! Ugly as hell too. You mean there is seriously people who collect them

Shouldn't be surprised, but wtf...

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:39 pm

Lordstar wrote: what about strait to DVD movies? are they origianl or or they still an aproximation? Arcade ports on the nes are also in the same catagory?

This is probably the most interesting point made thus far in the thread and I'm pretty disgusted at Ceph for shitting on it so. Of course, with any media, audience participation becomes an aspect that has to be taken into consideration. If I see film X in a clean, modern cinema, a filthy, smoky cinema, a DVD with art that I purchase and watch at home, and the same film that I torrent, burn and watch on the same TV, I am in effect watching 4 different ways, and by extension, due to to extra textual factors that shape my viewing experience, I am watching 4 different films. I'm guessing the majority of forum members here will snag this concept pretty quickly, being, as I perceive on the whole pretty partial to such 'additional media' as box art, packaging, manuals and so on. As such, it is a wholly logical conclusion that certain values, monetary or otherwise can be attributed to, say, an out of print DVD. I understand a DVD player can theoretically 'play' an approximation of a film, but is there really no difference between a rip and the original DVD? Of course there is not, in the same way that there is an obvious difference between a copy of Recca won in a contest some 15 odd years ago, one bought off the internet for an exorbitant amount of money, presumably to futilely attempt to emulate the experience of owning a copy of Recca in a more 'natural' setting, and a reproduction cartridge that offers none of the tenuous draw of sourcing an original but still allows the owner to own a physical copy of Recca. All three can be played on a Famicom, assuming the cartridge is still serviceable, and yet all three offer completely different experiences of the 'same' game.

Concequently, it's pretty stupid to infer that DVD's are not the 'real thing', while some kawaii piece of tat you shove in your console is any more valid.

Myself? I see the value in most every way of viewing a film. I watch at least one film a week at the cinema still (I must be in a minority here), I have hundreds of DVDs and videos, some of which I have spent over £70 and have spent months sourcing, and I pirate like a bastard too

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:43 pm

Dragoforce wrote:
I worked part time at a film festival last year carrying movie reels (among other things) and those fuckers really weigh a ton! Ugly as hell too. You mean there is seriously people who collect them Shouldn't be surprised, but wtf...

I work around film reels, and there is definitely 'something' about them that is special. There are several films that I would like to obtain in this format, regardless of cost/difficulty obtaining. The more reel damage/cigarette burns the better

Dragoforce · Post by **Dragoforce** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:54 pm

MX7 wrote:
Dragoforce wrote:
I worked part time at a film festival last year carrying movie reels (among other things) and those fuckers really weigh a ton! Ugly as hell too. You mean there is seriously people who collect them Shouldn't be surprised, but wtf...
I work around film reels, and there is definitely 'something' about them that is special. There are several films that I would like to obtain in this format, regardless of cost/difficulty obtaining. The more reel damage/cigarette burns the better

Yeah, as you say i'm sure there is some special aura or something about them. But after spending the better part of day unloading a small truck filled with reels single-handedly you stop to notice anything about them except the weight:(

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:51 pm

I know very well how the market works.

Then you can't say, "Paying X for something is too much b/c _____". The market is what someone will pay for it. Always, regardless of reason.

You skipped the part where I wrote that DvDs are mere approximations.

You skipped the part where I said "it's not the media". First, I understand DVD is a world wide format. First prints are also just that: first prints, and it's clear they do matter to collectors...especially when subsequent reprints aren't as good.

KindGrind · Post by **KindGrind** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:29 am

GaijinPunch wrote: You skipped the part where I said "it's not the media". First, I understand DVD is a world wide format. First prints are also just that: first prints, and it's clear they do matter to collectors...especially when subsequent reprints aren't as good.

That's very true. Fact is, people will pay for rare early prints, sometimes no matter how crappy the transfer compared to today's "standards". Early obscure yet cult letterbox/subtitled movies fetch insane prices.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WARRIOR-AND-THE-NIN ... dZViewItem

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:40 am

@GaijinPunch
And what about the rest I wrote?

Anway, yes, in the case of movies/images/music, the physical media itself is irrelevant. Just like the "first print" of that aforementioned digital photo of the Mona Lisa means nothing, first print VHS, LD, DVD, Blu Ray really means nothing. What matters is the image quality of the movie itself, and that is going to improve with every new generation of media, and not get worse. Therefore, paying high prices for these "first prints" makes little sense, because you never get the master copy. (Yes, collecting stuff is irrational anyway, but there are degrees of insanity, and a sucker is born every minute).

With games it's the other way around: Nothing beats the "real thing". What comes after the real thing are emulation and remakes, and those are never quite like playing a game on the original hardware.

brokenhalo · Post by **brokenhalo** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:10 am

i don't think you understand the thread ceph. we're not arguing first print versus nth print. the rarity refers to a specifically released version of something. a movie can see 10 dvd releases from 10 different companies, and if one is superior above all the others and OOP it's value is going to go up.

and saying that re-releases on newer media are going to be better by default just isn't true. there are some really shitty looking blu-rays out there.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:51 am

Just like the "first print" of that aforementioned digital photo of the Mona Lisa means nothing

Is that why first prints often go for more?

and that is going to improve with every new generation of media

Not always, and even if it does it doesn't mean the price of the original will necessarily go down (vinyl, anyone?).

EDIT: I'm still on the look out for a CD (which is actually a fancy CDR) that runs a good $100. I've let one get through $80 (damnit), got outbid on another one (for $120), successfully bought one, had it sent to my office in Honolulu, found it smashed when I got there (got a refund, even though I told the seller someone in the office likely stepped on it), and finally found another seller willing to sell it for $90 but then he realized he'd already sold it.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:16 pm

Ceph wrote:
With games it's the other way around: Nothing beats the "real thing". What comes after the real thing are emulation and remakes, and those are never quite like playing a game on the original hardware.

And watching a DVD is nothing like watching the films initial screening at a film festival.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play the initial master code of a videogame on the dev system was crafted on. After all, that boxed edition of the game it became is just a reproduction.