People affected by credit crunch!

[GaijinPunch]

This makes no difference to me as long as no more company I own goes bankrupt or lower their dividend payment.

It affects everyone. It just doesn't seem nearly as direct.

seems like a load of bullshit to me though becuase I went in to costco at the weekend and its as busy as ever.

Well, people still have to eat. Maybe a better time to buy in bulk to save. To paint a picture, Japan has pretty much the strongest currency on the planet right now... however the planes aren't even close to capacity. The one I was on 2 weeks ago was only half full.

[Sonic R]

Times are now becoming uncertain for me.

For an idea of where I come from,

I work in automotive manufacturing. I imagine that everyone is well aware of the crisis that is going on with Detroit automakers. Their future will determine my immediate future. Most of my friends have already loose there jobs…my father, whom worked for Ford Motor Company as an engineer, for 30 years was asked to retire. My mother is working on and off and her plant may be gone soon. I know my time is short. My financials are in serious decline.

[jpj]

hope things work out for you sonic R, i'm in a similar situation

[Elixir]

Well, people still have to eat. Maybe a better time to buy in bulk to save. To paint a picture, Japan has pretty much the strongest currency on the planet right now... however the planes aren't even close to capacity. The one I was on 2 weeks ago was only half full.

Someone on the news here said that this Christmas is going to be the busiest Christmas ever, thanks to the credit crunch. I guess it's because things here are overpriced in general, but now they're actually worth what people are paying retail for. Importers (of general goods/bulk) in Japan must be happy.

[caldwert]

Hasn't hit me directly yet, but its come very close. I work at Enterprise Rent-A-Car in the World HQ here in St. Louis. If GM or one of them goes under a LOT of people at Enterprise could lose their jobs. Already a bunch got laid off, and rumor has it a lot more to come December 1st. Hopefully none of those who might get laid off on December 1st went nuts buying things the day after Thanksgiving.

I did notice that Costco was insanely busy this weekend and I too thought it was due to people buying in bulk to save money. Its kind of weird to be in "depression/recession" yet have not been stung by it, knock on wood. I do know what its like after being unemployed for the better part of 2 years out of college. Definitely sucks.

[Octopod]

I dont feel it at all. I work in construction. Well, i kind of feel it i guess. Normally i do capentry but that has died down since people cant afford it unless it is something that has to be done. So i switched to doing commercial work lately. Commercial work isnt going anywhere. Just got done with a grocery store remodel and now im doing some work at the Staples office building. If your roof leaks you have to get it fixed. Always going to be some work and construction pays really well if you have some skills. Not a bad job move is something happens to your job. *shrug*

[Sonic R]

hope things work out for you sonic R, i'm in a similar situation

Thanks for kind words.

Right now, I am currently on lay off for the next 7 weeks.
It is possible that the plant of where I am employed could be shut down permanently by the summer. After working on the day shift for pretty much my whole time there (12.5 years) I had been moved to the afternoon shift but then this shutdown popped up.

The company I work for is owned by a private company (Cerberus) and is the government is not wanting to give them the same sympathy as the other two automotive companies. Thats fine with me, Cerberus has come in and ran through the company reducing jobs everywhere, including cutting out our whole quality department, materials is down to two fellows at my plant, me and my counterpart. We were originally a 5 man department with 3 on the day shift and 2 at night. Now its 1 day and 1 night. The initnal plan Cerberus has was to when they bought the company, they attempt to cut it down where it look profitable and then sell (pawn) off to a unlucky schmuck. Cerberus has plenty money and may now be forced to spend their wealth on their automotive businesses. Good for them Fuck them.

Well enough of my rant. Times have hit rock bottom and I've reached the end of my cash reserves. Every week I am on lay off I loose $200 in pay and have already had 4 lay offs with another 5 on the way. In addition, cost of living has increased and I have had another addition to the family 18 months ago.

I am looking to return to school but I am not sure what career path to take. I am considering to look at a few jobs in perhaps the hardware retail business. perhaps I can utilize 10 years of material management/coordination and administrative skills to find something with in reason. I hope to have a lateral movement in salary at the time being… I'll be getting my resume ready this week. I looked over it and it is out dated by 11 years! All I know is that I will NOT return to automotive manufacturing. I really enjoyed my job, got a bit complacent and now that complacency has injured me.

I really do not know what to do. I'm 32 years old and I get caught up in the job and never proper plan things and now I am set to suffer

[Michaelm]

After working on the day shift for pretty much my whole time there (12.5 years)

I looked over it and it is out dated by 11 years!

I don't think anyone will wonder why !

You're still quite young at 32. I recently changed career and I'm 38.
Got a lot of help from the government though because I was unemployed.
You're situation is bit harsher then mine was but still, apart from the financial pain, you don't need to suffer so much.
Try and get a job in something you really really like !

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Don't forget to apply for unemployment benefits guys!

[The n00b]

Looks like the auto industry is getting their bailout. I'd like to say that the execs and the UAW learned their lesson but ...somehow I don't think so.

It really pisses me off that all these guys who are way more well off than the average American are getting bailouts but your average guy off the street isn't getting anything. In fact Bank of America still sees fit to crack down on their customers.

[t0yrobo]

I'm unable to get more student loans since my wonderfull sister has been late on payments that my parents had cosigned, and no one else in my family is willing to cosign right now. So I'll only be in school halftime this semester, hopefully I can find a decent job overall the economy in my area isn't that bad. At least not nearly as bad as the eastern side of the state where I used to live.

[Acid King]

Looks like the auto industry is getting their bailout. I'd like to say that the execs and the UAW learned their lesson but ...somehow I don't think so.

It really pisses me off that all these guys who are way more well off than the average American are getting bailouts but your average guy off the street isn't getting anything. In fact Bank of America still sees fit to crack down on their customers.

Blaming the UAW is CLASS WARFARE! Why do you hate the working man?

[sven666]

6 months later and i think everyone that voted "no" can now safeley change that vote to "yes"

[The n00b]

Looks like the auto industry is getting their bailout. I'd like to say that the execs and the UAW learned their lesson but ...somehow I don't think so.

It really pisses me off that all these guys who are way more well off than the average American are getting bailouts but your average guy off the street isn't getting anything. In fact Bank of America still sees fit to crack down on their customers.

Blaming the UAW is CLASS WARFARE! Why do you hate the working man?

This is sarcasm right? lol

I also want to change my vote to yes. My employer got screwed over by the banks right when it counted and now it's layoffs for everybody.

[Acid King]

This is sarcasm right? lol

I also want to change my vote to yes. My employer got screwed over by the banks right when it counted and now it's layoffs for everybody.

I was watching MSNBC one day and that was pretty much the crux of his argument. I felt bad for the guy debating him. It was hilariously depressing.

[BulletMagnet]

Blaming the UAW is CLASS WARFARE! Why do you hate the working man?

No, no, only efforts to shift wealth away from the rich in ANY capacity are "class warfare" - any shift in the other direction is "patriotism" and "evidence of capitalism's inherent greatness." Unless you've been living in a different country from me for the past few decades.

In any event, while the UAW gets a number of perks (some of which are pretty unnecessary), whatever impact its setup has had on the auto companies' situation is a drop in the bucket compared to the long-term (and well-compensated) failures of the executives (who, even after receiving the money, are apparently not going to be required to step down from the companies they ruined - the free market at work!) - and of course nearly all of the concessions are coming from (where else?) labor. As an example, you know how Chrysler is closing its plants for a month? The blue collar workers are being laid off for that period, but the upper echelons will continue to be paid. Yeah, those damn unions, they get EVERYthing they want, while the management is utterly powerless at their filthy, lazy hands.

Not to mention, of course, that despite the howls of "Socialism!" and demands of varying conditions over the auto bailout, there was nary a peep over the bank bailout, which was twenty times as large, and the recipients of the latter don't even have to tell anyone where the money's going.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that the working class is the one coming out ahead via the bailout, or responsible for the sorry economic state in the first place, is nothing short of delusional.

[BryanM]

My bank's savings account went from offering 5% interest to about 1.7%. That's... a lot of money down the shitter.

From the general insanity I'm seeing in the news, I'm assuming we're setting ourselves up for a period of hyper-inflation, so... to hell with the concept of working for right now. I already have toilet paper.

Not discounting the possibility that The Government will ride a pale horse and make everything all better; but that strikes me as unlikely.

"One of the rights we forget is the right of a human being to live a decent life." - Some crazy old guy

[The n00b]

Blaming the UAW is CLASS WARFARE! Why do you hate the working man?

No, no, only efforts to shift wealth away from the rich in ANY capacity are "class warfare" - any shift in the other direction is "patriotism" and "evidence of capitalism's inherent greatness." Unless you've been living in a different country from me for the past few decades.

In any event, while the UAW gets a number of perks (some of which are pretty unnecessary), whatever impact its setup has had on the auto companies' situation is a drop in the bucket compared to the long-term (and well-compensated) failures of the executives (who, even after receiving the money, are apparently not going to be required to step down from the companies they ruined - the free market at work!) - and of course nearly all of the concessions are coming from (where else?) labor. As an example, you know how Chrysler is closing its plants for a month? The blue collar workers are being laid off for that period, but the upper echelons will continue to be paid. Yeah, those damn unions, they get EVERYthing they want, while the management is utterly powerless at their filthy, lazy hands.

Not to mention, of course, that despite the howls of "Socialism!" and demands of varying conditions over the auto bailout, there was nary a peep over the bank bailout, which was twenty times as large, and the recipients of the latter don't even have to tell anyone where the money's going.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that the working class is the one coming out ahead via the bailout, or responsible for the sorry economic state in the first place, is nothing short of delusional.

UAW =! working class

The guys working at the Toyota and Honda plants are working class. The people working at Google and the UAW guys are not working class. Glad we could clear that up.

Like it or not, labor makes up a big cost of what it takes to build a car and right now UAW workers are paid more than any other autoworker. The big three's execs also take home a lot of money. One could argue that there is nothing wrong with this. If a company is doing well, why can't EVERYONE get a piece of that success? That philosophy is great when a company is doing well but when the company hits a rough patch, you're going to be hurting..

Now this is not entirely UAW's fault like so many in the media say. Theirs was just one of many hands reaching into a pot growing smaller and smaller yet still trying to secure "their piece of the pie." They are not innocent either, however, and denying the automakers a bailout would given all those guys a fair punishment. Bankruptcy wold have hit the execs directly in the pocketbook and the UAW would have taken a trouncing.

[BulletMagnet]

Like it or not, labor makes up a big cost of what it takes to build a car

Then why aren't the car companies fighting for universal health care? Health care costs are the biggest drain (or one of them, at the very least) on employers, and single-payer systems in other countries cost half as much and perform equally or better, so why would the automakers (and others) have seemingly lobbied against their own financial interest for ages now? (Hint - Because it'd acknowledge that benefiting the lowly rank and file benefits the company and the public at large, something that the upper levels of the business world will NEVER admit.)

and right now UAW workers are paid more than any other autoworker.

Try again.

The big three's execs also take home a lot of money. One could argue that there is nothing wrong with this. If a company is doing well, why can't EVERYONE get a piece of that success?

The size of the "piece" that the execs get versus what their workers get has been ridiculously skewed in favor of the former for a long time, and has only been getting worse in recent years - and yet the complaints about "those goddam greedy unions" have only gotten louder in the meantime. Heck, even as you said in your post, the main reason you'd be in favor of bankruptcy for the automakers is to "deal a blow to the unions" (do you really think that the execs would suffer anywhere near as much as their employees in such a situation?), and you're hardly alone.

I just don't get how people can still think that organized labor and efforts to further the cause of the majority of the workforce a) have gotten stronger instead of weaker over the past twenty or more years, and b) can be held responsible for the current financial crisis to even a small percentage of the amount that their bosses should be. Every piece of data that I'm aware of flies in the face of both.

[Sonic R]

I am in automotive manufacturing, and in the UAW… I guess I am not working class?

I will not get involved in this further, it will lead to very fatal confrontations (I have already made enemies with some people from my old car club forum in regards to the subject)…

I'll also take this final say to give Thanks to BulletMagnet as you have done well in providing informations as well as reflecting many of my feelings.

But yeah, us UAW autoworkers are living lavish. Yup I got my nice 2 bedroom house with 3 kids and a nice Focus to cart my family around in. And come on by and check out my PCB collection too…

[Lordstar]

its made me laugh that the sales hit early this year with crazy prices like 50% off and 70% off 80% in one case. so they are able to slash prices like that what the fuck are they paying for there product?

banks have been bailed out by our goverment and are they making life easier for there customers? not really. I just think there is so much money flying about and so much agorance about it all. it makes me want to just crawl underneath a rock and stay there until everything is levled out again. My clothing whole sellers have raised the prices on everything my bank now wants more money from me for having a biz bank account.

[jpj]

its made me laugh that the sales hit early this year with crazy prices like 50% off and 70% off 80% in one case. so they are able to slash prices like that what the fuck are they paying for there product?

selling at a loss.

[Skykid]

its made me laugh that the sales hit early this year with crazy prices like 50% off and 70% off 80% in one case. so they are able to slash prices like that what the fuck are they paying for there product?

selling at a loss.

That's a long shot though - I think very few would sell at a loss.

[jpj]

i promise you, they're being sold at a loss. people are trying to clear out old stock to generate cash flow. normally this happens in january, after a nice profitable xmas. not this year though. the only retail sectors who aren't significantly down this year are the food & drink sector. everyone else is hurting

trust me

[Lordstar]

as far as I am aware a lot of these companies dont need to sell at a loss becuase they they get most product on a three month lease or/and on sale or return. I know thats one of the deals tesco has here in the UK. I would imagine anyone with big buying power.

I think as a person its very hard to picture exatley how many billions these large companies have in the way of buying power.

[The n00b]

as far as I am aware a lot of these companies dont need to sell at a loss becuase they they get most product on a three month lease or/and on sale or return. I know thats one of the deals tesco has here in the UK. I would imagine anyone with big buying power.

I think as a person its very hard to picture exatley how many billions these large companies have in the way of buying power.

I don't know how it works in the UK but in the US those companies are selling at a loss when they put on sales like that.

[Acid King]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that the working class is the one coming out ahead via the bailout, or responsible for the sorry economic state in the first place, is nothing short of delusional.

Once again, you totally missed the point. Anyone conflating criticism of the UAW with criticism of the working class has their head up their ass and is just as delusional as the person in your example above.

I'll just add that nationalizing healthcare is no panacea for lowering costs since it fails to look at what's driving costs. If you nationalize, without considering exactly WHY health care costs are so high, then the government is on the hook for those costs and we wind up paying for the increases anyway.

[The n00b]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that the working class is the one coming out ahead via the bailout, or responsible for the sorry economic state in the first place, is nothing short of delusional.

Once again, you totally missed the point. Anyone conflating criticism of the UAW with criticism of the working class has their head up their ass and is just as delusional as the person in your example above.

I'll just add that nationalizing healthcare is no panacea for lowering costs since it fails to look at what's driving costs. If you nationalize, without considering exactly WHY health care costs are so high, then the government is on the hook for those costs and we wind up paying for the increases anyway.

But but letting the UAW keep their inflated benefits and wages is good for the average guy off the street! The ENTIRE working class will get food on their table and presents for the kids the minute the bailout goes through!

[BulletMagnet]

Anyone conflating criticism of the UAW with criticism of the working class has their head up their ass and is just as delusional as the person in your example above.

You're right that not every criticism of the UAW is necessarily meant to apply to the entire working class, but in many cases I'd argue that they are - the auto unions (and teachers' unions) in particular are held up as "warning examples" of what happens when you give the proles an inch of breathing room. "They'll do ANYthing to avoid accountability, and are just moving toward their Commie ideal of getting paid for doing nothing." Don't tell me that you haven't observed (and continue to observe) this on NUMEROUS occasions.

I'll just add that nationalizing healthcare is no panacea for lowering costs since it fails to look at what's driving costs.

Getting rid of the positions which exist solely to look for loopholes that can be used to deny customers coverage they've paid for would be a good start, I think. Not to mention greater emphasis on preventive care (including better educating the public on health and economic matters), which is far cheaper than after-the-fact brand-name wonder drug treatments (but far less profitable, which of course trumps everything else).

[The n00b]

Anyone conflating criticism of the UAW with criticism of the working class has their head up their ass and is just as delusional as the person in your example above.

You're right that not every criticism of the UAW is necessarily meant to apply to the entire working class, but in many cases I'd argue that they are - the auto unions (and teachers' unions) in particular are held up as "warning examples" of what happens when you give the proles an inch of breathing room. "They'll do ANYthing to avoid accountability, and are just moving toward their Commie ideal of getting paid for doing nothing." Don't tell me that you haven't observed (and continue to observe) this on NUMEROUS occasions.

I'll just add that nationalizing healthcare is no panacea for lowering costs since it fails to look at what's driving costs.

Getting rid of the positions which exist solely to look for loopholes that can be used to deny customers coverage they've paid for would be a good start, I think. Not to mention greater emphasis on preventive care (including better educating the public on health and economic matters), which is far cheaper than after-the-fact brand-name wonder drug treatments (but far less profitable, which of course trumps everything else).

Didn't the teacher's union get in trouble awhile back for shooting down incentives and bonuses for science and math teachers? Amazing how a teacher's union gets to have so much power. The UAW also does something similar when it determines who gets promoted and who doesn't. Pretty shitty stuff.