Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

[evil_ash_xero]

I don't actively avoid Western games, but I do find myself unimpressed by a lot of the big-hype western games. God of War, Halo, GTA, etc.

I don't even need to name a list of Japanese games that have fallen under the weight of their hype. I'll just mention this one series...

The Metal Gear Solid Games.

If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

Er...Final Fantasy anyone? Let's not forget how absolutely ghey this has become, partly relying on, and appealing to, Western cosplayers and a huge western FF fanbase. A very good reason to avoid a Japanese game series if you ask me.

I think FF peaked with VI and VII, and now have basically turned into movies. It's unfortunate.

Metal Gear, while having so many cutscenes you may actually nod off watching them...is still a game, and has MANY good to great points to it.
I think MGS are pretty awesome, but they're flawed. But to say they're only for Otaku is...well, a bit harsh for it. I mean, I know coal miners in their 40s who love it, so I don't think it's really accurate either.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm going to regret asking this....But a lot of folks here seem to think Japanese games are stagnant or whatever, while Western games aren't as bad in this regard.

Hmmm....Well, one of the reasons I like Japanese games is for their creativity either in gameplay or in looks. I think too many Western games look the same(back to the racist accusation! j/k).

But seriously, can someone roll off some heavily creative Western games? This isn't a "you can't!" thing either, i'm just actually curious. I appreciate Ubi Soft's visuals designs in POP, but I can't get into those games because I feel the control is a bit stiff compared to TR(yeah, I know TR ripped THEM off). I think GOW has lots of inventiveness in gameplay(particually in boss battles), and in it's awesome designs.

Now, a lot of really creative Japanese games may not seem fresh anymore, because of multiple sequels, but it doesn't mean the engine wasn't original.

I see a lot of reviews ragging on Japanese sequels for being to similar to the game before. I hate that too, but is it really any different with U.S. games(or Western)?

Ah, I dunno. I am curious though about these original games that are far more creative than Japans BEST. Now this is an actual question out of curiousity. So, let forth. I know Braid is supposed to be pretty interesting. But I haven't took the plunge on it.

I mean, MGS, RE4, Okami, DMC, and many more were at least highly creative and originial the FIRST time around. I can't think of any Western games with as much heart and stlye as Okami off the top of my head. But maybe i'm missing something.

Let me know what's up. And stop accusing me of having holes in my head.

s/m

[Observer]

I mean, MGS, RE4, Okami, DMC, and many more were at least highly creative and originial the FIRST time around. I can't think of any Western games with as much heart and stlye as Okami off the top of my head. But maybe i'm missing something.

It seems my post went unseen or I'm really the ultimate thread killer.

This is what I get for getting a post at the bottom of page 1. It's not the last but I pretty much listed a bunch of great western games... I should've put them in bold or something.

But come on, no love for Freespace? Starlancer (albeit not as good) was also fine, Homeworld really forced you to think in 3D as you moved your ships around using many formations and units... I don't want to list stuff again.

Wipeout was really one of the coolest racing games I played. I'm hammering my head but the 7th Guest was a great game too and many of the old graphical adventures were also western.

Someone mentioned Oddworld series. You have Psychonauts. A lot of western games are also done with passion.

[evil_ash_xero]

I mean, MGS, RE4, Okami, DMC, and many more were at least highly creative and originial the FIRST time around. I can't think of any Western games with as much heart and stlye as Okami off the top of my head. But maybe i'm missing something.

It seems my post went unseen or I'm really the ultimate thread killer.

This is what I get for getting a post at the bottom of page 1. It's not the last but I pretty much listed a bunch of great western games... I should've put them in bold or something.

But come on, no love for Freespace? Starlancer (albeit not as good) was also fine, Homeworld really forced you to think in 3D as you moved your ships around using many formations and units... I don't want to list stuff again.

Wipeout was really one of the coolest racing games I played. I'm hammering my head but the 7th Guest was a great game too and many of the old graphical adventures were also western.

Someone mentioned Oddworld series. You have Psychonauts. A lot of western games are also done with passion.

Ah, OK, Yeah, I didn't see that.

Now, I don't like games like Oddworld, and have never played Psychonauts, but from what I have seen, they both seem to have real spirit in them. However, Psychonauts art style is actually somewhat frightening.

But they're not my thing. But that's the point of the thread. I'll agree with you now though, there are some titles that show some spirit.

Now, show me some games I can really sink my teeth into. So far, only God Of War has really appealed to my tastes.

s/m

[Shatterhand]

But seriously, can someone roll off some heavily creative Western games? This isn't a "you can't!" thing either, i'm just actually curious. I appreciate Ubi Soft's visuals designs in POP, but I can't get into those games because I feel the control is a bit stiff compared to TR(yeah, I know TR ripped THEM off). I think GOW has lots of inventiveness in gameplay(particually in boss battles), and in it's awesome designs.

Lemmings, Marble Madness, Mercury Meltdown, Worms, the original Grand Theft Auto and why not, the 3D ones, Out of this World and, erm.. Tetris?

and God of War is boring. Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead... advance, Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead advance.... I tried to like it, but after putting 6 hours on it, I was just keeping asking myself "Why am I wasting my time?"

[Daedalus]

I don't think most people intend to use jap pejoratively - it's just shorthand (and a lot less awkward to use than "jpn")

[Damocles]

But seriously, can someone roll off some heavily creative Western games? This isn't a "you can't!" thing either, i'm just actually curious. I appreciate Ubi Soft's visuals designs in POP, but I can't get into those games because I feel the control is a bit stiff compared to TR(yeah, I know TR ripped THEM off). I think GOW has lots of inventiveness in gameplay(particually in boss battles), and in it's awesome designs.

Lemmings, Marble Madness, Mercury Meltdown, Worms, the original Grand Theft Auto, Out of this World and why not, the 3D ones and, erm.. Tetris?

From the other thread..."The Club" from Bizarre.

Since we're talking "creative" and not just "good", off the top of my head...

Rainbow Six - Yay for a FPS that's more sim than FPS.
Twisted Metal - Virtually created the vehicular combat sub-genre
Tomb Raider - Well...the original at least, and maybe the recent ones.
Cannon Fodder - War was never that much fun
Elder Scrolls series - ...
Wolfenstein/Doom - ...x2
Prince of Persia - The original.
General Chaos - My own personal favorite.
The Immortal - Ok...so these last two are for me.

Nothing exciting about that list nowadays. When they were released? Yeah.

[Observer]

Ah, OK, Yeah, I didn't see that.

Now, I don't like games like Oddworld, and have never played Psychonauts, but from what I have seen, they both seem to have real spirit in them. However, Psychonauts art style is actually somewhat frightening.

But they're not my thing. But that's the point of the thread. I'll agree with you now though, there are some titles that show some spirit.

Now, show me some games I can really sink my teeth into. So far, only God Of War has really appealed to my tastes.

s/m

D'oh. You got me there. Did you describe at the beginning the genres you like? And I agree wholeheartedly: it all depends on the personal preferences. Too subjective to anyone be holding ultimate truths.

Let me see: for sci-fi racers the Wipeout games (2097 and the Wip3out for PSX) are amazing. I cannot remember if one came out for PS2 but guess it wouldn't hurt to pick it up. 2097 is also CDDA and that's always good.

If you like RTS, besides the usual Blizzard stuff: Homeworld 1 and Ground Control are amazing. Sacrifice was an ignored jewel and if you like hilarious dialogue and excellent voice acting, wait till you hear Charnel or Stratos. Top notch. It's more like a 3rd person pseudo-rts/rpg with doses of fantasy and magic all in one. Oh, branching paths, you get to pick your levels. As in: you have to choose to ally with gods and that determines the elements you will receive, it's really nice and the manual is... it's hard to describe but I spent a lot reading the manual since it's not written in a regular way but through the voices of the five gods and each section showcases their personality. If that's not passion I don't know what it is. Controls can be tricky but when you hear a Shrike practising his chanting...

Everything is based on mythology (seeing you liked GOW you might love this one just because of the massive mythological approach alone) as well with creatures as the goddess Persephone, the necromancer called Ragman, Acheron, elementals, and some other crazy stuff. I won't delay further but the manual is a bit of a must to get the whole grasp of this insanity.

In the FPS field: Clive Barker's Undying. Nobody really played this? It might look crappy today but on its time Patrick Galloway kicked ass and he was left-handed. Plus nothing like the Verago... (the noises they make!) Guys with clusters of stars instead of faces and tentacles instead of arms. They could attack in groups (and you can hear them chanting) but if you could put one alone it could fly away in panic (and disappear) or commit suicide by ramming at you while shrieking. By my description it doesn't even sound like a FPS. Odd places like the Eternal Autumn, a strange island with standing stones... a flying witch that will come to fry you with rays. And one ridiculous quote: "Run, runner!" Oh, you can revive enemies and they might help you. Or you can cause other enemies to do freaky stuff. Game is really violent... Wait till you get the scythe. And this was in 2001. I forgot to mention this game has the biggest amount of deaths for the main character I ever saw. It surpasses Resident Evil. Pretty much every enemy has 2-3 ways of owning the poor character. All in a 3rd person camera.

Space simulators: Freespace series. Huge battleships approaching fast. Huge lasers. Enough said. Also, it has that tendency of a calm, tense ambience and 5 seconds later all the screen goes pew pew and missiles fly away.

Since it's quite late I'll pass you two more:

Synaesthete: people probably know this one. 3d person Rez-like game where you shoot lasers at the rhythm of punchi-punchi techno happy trance dance core yadda yadda. Short as hell, still manages to be amazing and the passion here is notorious. Each section features quotes, the songs are really nice and, overall, it's beautiful... and freeware:

https://typo3.digipen.edu/index.php?id=986

Last: TAGAPP, the ignored game about Apocalyptic Penguins. Also freeware and the soundtrack is available as well for free. You can even print your own disc if you want. Speaking about dedication...

http://www.tagap.net/

Might not be everyone's cup of tea but, well, I don't know, the player does the usual: shoot things. With penguins. Freaking silly but rewarding since a lot of stuff blows up.

I'm feeling especially talkative. All the Touhou fandom is infuriating me beyond reason tonight. Jeez. Where is my manly mecha, Omega Boost and DoDonPachi...

Hope these can help you! I admit I recommended a couple of really old games... Sins of the Solar Empire might be a 'today's generation' PC game that might come close to Homeworld. (not that close though)

Sadly, everything post PS2 is unknown to me since I don't have any next-gen console so, yep, I gave you all PC stuff. Apologies for that.

edit: Oh! Old too but hell if Operation Flashpoint didn't rock despite the horrid textures.

[No_not_like_Quake]

Lately, for rpg's anyway, I have been gravitating toward western developed games. The amount of moments in JRPGS are starting to make me less interested in eastern take of the genre.

[evil_ash_xero]

But seriously, can someone roll off some heavily creative Western games? This isn't a "you can't!" thing either, i'm just actually curious. I appreciate Ubi Soft's visuals designs in POP, but I can't get into those games because I feel the control is a bit stiff compared to TR(yeah, I know TR ripped THEM off). I think GOW has lots of inventiveness in gameplay(particually in boss battles), and in it's awesome designs.

Lemmings, Marble Madness, Mercury Meltdown, Worms, the original Grand Theft Auto and why not, the 3D ones, Out of this World and, erm.. Tetris?

and God of War is boring. Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead... advance, Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead Square Square Square Square enemy dead advance.... I tried to like it, but after putting 6 hours on it, I was just keeping asking myself "Why am I wasting my time?"

Man, God Of War is awesome. If it's repetitive, then all shmups are too, and we should just got to playing...uh, hell, I dunno. Something where you do something different all the time. lol

But hey, you tried it. I love it, myself.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

But seriously, can someone roll off some heavily creative Western games? This isn't a "you can't!" thing either, i'm just actually curious. I appreciate Ubi Soft's visuals designs in POP, but I can't get into those games because I feel the control is a bit stiff compared to TR(yeah, I know TR ripped THEM off). I think GOW has lots of inventiveness in gameplay(particually in boss battles), and in it's awesome designs.

Lemmings, Marble Madness, Mercury Meltdown, Worms, the original Grand Theft Auto, Out of this World and why not, the 3D ones and, erm.. Tetris?

From the other thread..."The Club" from Bizarre.

Since we're talking "creative" and not just "good", off the top of my head...

Rainbow Six - Yay for a FPS that's more sim than FPS.
Twisted Metal - Virtually created the vehicular combat sub-genre
Tomb Raider - Well...the original at least, and maybe the recent ones.
Cannon Fodder - War was never that much fun
Elder Scrolls series - ...
Wolfenstein/Doom - ...x2
Prince of Persia - The original.
General Chaos - My own personal favorite.
The Immortal - Ok...so these last two are for me.

Nothing exciting about that list nowadays. When they were released? Yeah.

Hey, fair enough. I see what you mean. Now, I don't like most of these games, but they were/are original.

You know, I wish they would tighten up the controls in POP, since Tomb Raider's ripped off/yet improved control scheme kinda ruin POP for me.

But overall, I just like the twitchy JPN games. Or the RPG and SRPG. But hey, as long as you're playing.

s/m

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

The only thing I steer clear of is fanboys.

[Nuke]

You know, I wish they would tighten up the controls in POP, since Tomb Raider's ripped off/yet improved control scheme kinda ruin POP for me.

I think he meant the original -original- Prince of Persia, not the shitty 3d re-imagining and the other improved re-imaginings that followed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zyQ_OVyhNE

[Damocles]

You know, I wish they would tighten up the controls in POP, since Tomb Raider's ripped off/yet improved control scheme kinda ruin POP for me.

I think he meant the original -original- Prince of Persia, not the shitty 3d re-imagining and the other improved re-imaginings that followed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zyQ_OVyhNE

Indeed.

[Neon]

[

[worstplayer]

This is interesting topic. I can't say I avoid western games, I like FPS so it would be impossible
What i noticed is that Japanese games usually focus on one aspect.
Shmups have perfectly balanced gameplay, Story and graphics are average at best (see: Cave reusing same explosion sprites since first Dodonpachi). JRPGs focus on complex story, and game mechanics are simple and often downright broken. Etc.
Western games try to do too much at once, and nothing is perfect.

I'm feeling especially talkative. All the Touhou fandom is infuriating me beyond reason tonight. Jeez. Where is my manly mecha, Omega Boost and DoDonPachi...

And this is what both sides do wrong. Design of Japanese games is getting more and more anime-ized and tasteless.
Western games on the other hand buy into 3B school of realism (Brown, Blur, Bloom).
DDP and Omega Boost are good compromise between those extremes. Nobody does cool games like that anymore

[Acid King]

I DO say that they are just not up my alley. I'm not saying they aren't good. I'm saying they're not for me. Can no one understand this difference. Do I have to say, "it's not for me, but it fanfuckingtastic!" for you to understand what i'm saying???

s/m

You just have to stop saying generalized shit like "I can't even think of a handful of Western games that even come close to J's best" or "the good is like classic stuff. I don't think almost any Western games come close" then dismissively add western classics to "the long list of games that I just don't even care about". That's the problem.

[moozooh]

Most physics-based games are Western, as far as I know. Not counting numerous puzzles (Chronic Logic game catalog and alikes), there are Hammerfall, ElastoMania, Gish, Toribash, Ragdoll Masters, and many others.

I'm not an expert in this field, but the only Asian physics-based games I know are those by Kenta Cho (µCade & Wok).

[captpain]

Games can only be judged on an individual basis. It makes sense to prefer certain genres, and to prefer certain games within those genres. It does not make sense to exclude games based solely upon the area from which they've come.

What is there to talk about here?

"Each side makes good games! But I like Japanese games."
"Each side makes good games! But I like Western games."
"Each side makes good games! Lucky for me, I like them all!"

Thread's over