Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:36 pm

I got the idea to do this thread after watching some "history of video games" thing on TV. It only focused on U.S. games, and had such pulse pounding landmarks as Sim City, Doom, and other amazing "classics" that hold the test of time. I'm being sarcastic, obviously.

I mean, if I hear about a game, and take a look at some stills..If I think it looks good, i'll make sure it's made in Japan, if it isn't I just totally lose interest.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but 9 times out of 10, this keeps me from buying games I don't like. So many western games that are "100 percents" or whatever, I just don't think much of. Ratchet And Clank is almost always a 9 or 10, and honestly, I think it has an ugly style, and mildy boring gameplay. Jak is another game that i'm not too hot on, but I think it looks good(graphics wise) at least. And FPS don't do anything for me at all, so that gets rid of a lot of titles. And let's not even get into my feelings on GTA.

The only time I was genuinely shocked by a Western game, and is one of my favorite series ever, was with God Of War. But I kind of attribute it to it's heavy borrowing from Capcom action games, and it's creative design team(which are all Asian, and one black dude, so you know). I like the old(first two) and new(last two) Tomb Raiders, but not to that level.
I loved the new Contra, but it's basically because it was a remix of the old ones. However, you can't turn your nose at the clever level design they made. I just can't think of many U.S. games that really have these qualities.

So, that's like it. I hate to turn my back on Western games in general, but I think they're seriously lacking style, in terms of gameplay and in terms of design. I always feel like all the good U.S. designers work in comics and movies and just let the talent free work on the games.

Anyway, I know many will disagree with this, but are there any of you like me with this one?

On the same note, I was playing the Western made 1942 on XBLA, and man you could REALLY tell. Such a turn off for me.

s/m

D · Post by D » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:40 pm

I agree totally with you. And I think most here will agree as well.
Western games, 99% fps-ish. me no like, so my only option is to import.
Fighting games, racing games, shmups, etc.

GrimoreLibrarian · Post by **GrimoreLibrarian** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:01 pm

To me in the long run it doesn't matter where the game come from, as long as the games are fun. From what I see both eastern and western both released piles of udder shit most of the time and a nice surprise every once in a while.

Lordstar · Post by **Lordstar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:21 pm

D wrote:I agree totally with you. And I think most here will agree as well.
Western games, 99% fps-ish. me no like, so my only option is to import.
Fighting games, racing games, shmups, etc.

I just play the 1%

dont forget we only really hear about the good japanese games. They get there there tripe too

Necronopticous · Post by **Necronopticous** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:31 pm

While there is absolutely no disputing that the vast majority of great games in the last few decades have come from Japan, it is foolish to disregard every game that wasn't developed there for that reason, alone. To judge the entire non-Japanese breadth of video games in one sweeping generalization and conclude that they all must be like Ratchet & Clank is a huge mistake, and a monument to your claims of not giving many non-Japanese games a chance.

There have been plenty of amazing games from other regions in the world over the years, production and otherwise. You're really going to miss out thinking that nothing good can possibly come from anywhere else but glorious Nihon.

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:37 pm

There's some good indie-developed games for the pc coming out of the west (this site has it's spiritual home in Japan, right?). It's just a shame the pc is such a lousy platform to develop for and that every game has to have that 'puzzle' element to make them seem like "real games". Here's an idea: Make an update of an old 8-bit game, make sure there's a bit of a puzzle element thrown in (just enough to ruin the flow of the original)and you're all set in the land of the indies...cough...Braid...cough

gray117 · Post by **gray117** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:56 pm

good and bad everywhere... you''d be foolish to avoid western games.

On the developer side - talent, working practices and aesthetics are crossing over more and more.

That being said there may well be certain gaming elements that really do key with your personality/gaming compulsion then really you are probably going to be looking at certain companies/brands... which may well be culturally influnenced... ?

I think if anything all markets are diversifying more and now eastern gamers play fps western gamers are discovering they no longer need to identify the single killer app

nem · Post by **nem** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:10 pm

These days I only play quick action, arcade type games, so yeah, 95% of the games that I play are japanese developed. However, I would be a fool to disregard titles like Super Stardust HD, Geometry Wars, N+ or Bionic Commando Rearmed because of some cultural bias.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:15 pm

I find myself playing mostly American and European developed games these days. Japan is horribly lacking in originality over the last half decade or more.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:22 pm

Necronopticous wrote:While there is absolutely no disputing that the vast majority of great games in the last few decades have come from Japan, it is foolish to disregard every game that wasn't developed there for that reason, alone. To judge the entire non-Japanese breadth of video games in one sweeping generalization and conclude that they all must be like Ratchet & Clank is a huge mistake, and a monument to your claims of not giving many non-Japanese games a chance.

There have been plenty of amazing games from other regions in the world over the years, production and otherwise. You're really going to miss out thinking that nothing good can possibly come from anywhere else but glorious Nihon.

The thing is, i'm not doing that. I will try these games. I just finally got around to Halo, Call of Duty, and some others. But i'm always proven right. I'm not saying "I won't play this because it's America", i'm saying "I have almost played no U.S. games that I like, so i'm really not interested in checking out these games". But I will.

I don't like Japanese Pop Music. So if someone said, "hey man, why don't you check out this new JPOP CD", i'd basically know it was going to be sugary as hell, and very upbeat to the point of nausea. So, I would kind of be like "ah, i'm not really interested". That being said, I do like Pizzicato Five. But it's a major rarity.

Anytime I say this, someone is like "I only like them if they're good, and it doesn't matter where it's from". Well, If 99 percent of games I play from the U.S. I have played are not to my liking, I think i'm pretty well backed in saying "I'm not excited about American games" without any "you dont' give them a chance" stuff being a viable accusation.

And yeah, I have played a lot of Jap games that suck ass, but out of my collection of a few hundred games, I have like 5 Western games that have made the cut. So, I think the Japs have the upperhand with my tastes.

I'm not saying the U.S.games suck. I'm just saying I don't find them fun or good looking. Just a taste thing.

s/m

gray117 · Post by **gray117** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:23 pm

I think the original starting point of this thought was to blame - doubtless some ham-fisted presentation by some tv channel of omfg-good-old-games-crap-history-blah-produce-program-+1for geeks....

... good and rubbish on both sides... and many tv people know very little about games...

Fortunately talent and markets are begining to exchange and inform each other more and more.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:24 pm

nem wrote:These days I only play quick action, arcade type games, so yeah, 95% of the games that I play are japanese developed. However, I would be a fool to disregard titles like Super Stardust HD, Geometry Wars, N+ or Bionic Commando Rearmed because of some cultural bias.

I'm pretty psyched about BCR. However, it's a remake of a Japanese game.

Geometry Wars is actually kind of cool, but it's a little TOO old school for me. But it's definitely doing what it's doing well.
I'm more psyched about the new Galaga. Space Invaders Extreme was good too.

s/m

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:27 pm

[quote="nem"]These days I only play quick action, arcade type games, so yeah, 95% of the games that I play are japanese developed. quote]

I have always found that the Japanese excell at "twitchy" games. I absolutely love the advent of the 3D action game, such as DMC and NG. I was playing ZOE 2, and was just eating up that kind of fast paced action that I have yet to see in Western games(A BIG exception is GOW of course, which I think is one of the best new franchies of the last 10 years).

s/m

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:36 pm

nem wrote:These days I only play quick action, arcade type games, so yeah, 95% of the games that I play are japanese developed. However, I would be a fool to disregard titles like Super Stardust HD, Geometry Wars, N+ or Bionic Commando Rearmed because of some cultural bias.

This is pretty much what I think of the situation. N+ is fantastic. I Wanna Be The Guy is also fantastic. As is Jumper+ and the other titles you listed, like Geometry Wars and Geometry Wars 2.

Ignoring the western titles, like Bioshock, Valve stuff, Bethesda, etc, is just stupid.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Necronopticous wrote:While there is absolutely no disputing that the vast majority of great games in the last few decades have come from Japan

The size of that majority depends on what you mean by "great" and how you measure it.

t0yrobo · Post by **t0yrobo** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:00 pm

I think it's just more indicative of your tastes. I don't have anything against Japanese games (I'm here of course), but I very much prefer western rpgs and strategy games over Japanese ones. To me considering where it was made just seems kinda silly, there;s no reason good games can't come from anywhere.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:02 pm

I thought this was going to be about cowboy games. Outlaws was the last good one.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:04 pm

Western games have a different kind of depth - less strategic and more sensory.
I have to play them all though, I don't have a choice. Most recently, Hellboy: The Science of Evil. I can't believe Konami have any kind of association with it at all - it's positively shocking.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:38 pm

Less depth? Western wargames (yes, they still exist although not in retail channels) kill JP wargames in pretty much every aspect except simplicity.

gennss · Post by **gennss** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:42 pm

I prefer Eastern RPG's over western ones anyday. As for games overall I do lean more to imported games because I prefer shooters and fighting games (ie: casual games) than anything else.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:55 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote:It only focused on U.S. games, and had such pulse pounding landmarks as Sim City, Doom, and other amazing "classics" that hold the test of time. I'm being sarcastic, obviously.

I was never that much into PC gaming, but even I know that Sim City and Doom are absolute classic and I really wonder who you are trying to impress with that.

I mean, I know what you´re trying to say, but "steering clear" of games just because they´re western sounds pretty uptight to me and I think you´re going all OH GLORIOUS NIPPON! here. You certainly have a point here, but you´re making it more dramatic than it has to be IMHO.

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:01 pm

No. I actually enjoy Civilization.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:22 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:It only focused on U.S. games, and had such pulse pounding landmarks as Sim City, Doom, and other amazing "classics" that hold the test of time. I'm being sarcastic, obviously.
I was never that much into PC gaming, but even I know that Sim City and Doom are absolute classic and I really wonder who you are trying to impress with that.

I mean, I know what you´re trying to say, but "steering clear" of games just because they´re western sounds pretty uptight to me and I think you´re going all OH GLORIOUS NIPPON! here. You certainly have a point here, but you´re making it more dramatic than it has to be IMHO.

You know, I never did say oh glorious Nippon. But oh well, I certainly didn't think was coming off as dramatic.

And I think Doom sucks. But the only fps I like were GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and the Call Of Duty games.

s/m

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:28 pm

Ganelon wrote:Less depth? Western wargames (yes, they still exist although not in retail channels) kill JP wargames in pretty much every aspect except simplicity.

Er... I didn't say that dude, I said they have a different kind of depth.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:04 pm

evil_ash_xero wrote:And I think Doom sucks.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:20 pm

Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

Nope, I've been steering clear of Japanese games oddly enough since most of them are just more of the same in genres I'm tired of (jrpgs... evolve the fuck already!)
The only eastern games I've been playing the last months are visual novels, such as the Phoenix Wright series.

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:44 pm

I tend not to like modern American games (I don't play too many European games lately, so I won't tar them with the same brush) for several reasons. There tends to be way too much emphasis on a "dark and gritty" type of aesthetic. Military themes are tremendously overused (not just WW2, but in general; "space marine", anyone?). Characters tend to be laughably flat. Gameplay tends to be "open" to the point of complete aimlessness (I made a story for you, but my jaw-dropping environment and cutting-edge physics engine ated it) and/or full of gratuitous gameplay detail to the point of tedium. Too many games are rushed to market with serious bugs and even outright design flaws (this is probably more of a PC vs. console thing though, and with the new generation being online by default consoles seem to be picking it up too). These criticisms by no means apply to all American games nor exclusively to American games, but the pattern seems pretty clear.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:55 pm

It's not like there hasn't been broken Japanese games, either.

My PS2 has a healthy collection of American and Japanese games. The Legacy of Kain/Soul Reaver series has always been a decent kind of western-made game. The Wipeout series also stand as a good example of Western design.

But yeah, it's mostly FPS, RTS and racing/sports when it comes to western games.

Observer · Post by **Observer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:55 pm

What a big coincidence. I was staring at my old games and spotted so many cool western games from the past.

I spotted the old PSX Robotron my dad brought from USA, the Wipeout games (come on, who doesn't love Wipeout and the lock-on guided missile?), then the Homeworld series (although the first won by far since it not only had Yes but an arrangement of Adagio for Strings, aka, Platoon's 'theme'), Command & Conquer: Red Alert, the amazing Ground Control, the great Alien vs. Predator 1 (mentioned in the shmups chat) and the nice Clive Barker's Undying (personally the last 'big budget' fps that was great, long live the Verago and the Eternal Autumn... as if western games can't have cool names and flashy insane crap... Oneiros and blood falling upwards ftw) uh, Deus Ex was neat too despite some silly moments.

In fact, besides some doujin releases or acclaimed stgs, I'm starting to avoid the increasing 'pussyfication' of the eastern games, so full of loli/little girls (and the rabid fandom of said stuff), big boobs everywhere (I was making fun of this and DOA4 with my friend since she couldn't believe how damn bouncy those things were), all female casts, pink and shit. Also another missile for jRPGs. Grow the fuck up, god dammit with those androgynous dudes and one winged angels or unrealistically big swords.

Bad games come from everywhere. It's just that in shooters it seems (cannot stop stressing the 'it seems': means I'm not sure, not stating a definitive truth) that some of the worst games came from the western side, guess that's it. And why the term 'euroshmup' is used almost in a pejorative way.

Just remembered: Planescape Torment isn't even japanese but it beats the fuck out of many of those jRPGs. Arcanum: Of Magic and Steamworks was a far more enjoyable experience than, for example, Star Ocean 3 or Baten Kaitos. Pity because I love Motoi Sakuraba's prog-rock...

Mech Warrior by Microprose and the awesome MechCommander (hard as hell RTS where 'the party' was always over according to the briefing girl).

Let's look past FPS games. There were heaps of things besides those. Sacrifice, the RTS way ahead of its time where you had a mage that earned experience and directed an army (plus one hell of an amazing voice acting) with amazing graphics.

The Freespace series. Shivan Juggernaut Sathanas (sp?) and other planet-sized cruisers. Hell yeah! It even spawned all sorts of huge mods and games.

Guess in all cultures we reach a point of saturation where it begins to be hard to truly innovate.

Those games I mentioned are quite old but stuff like Audiosurf (albeit I know a lot of people hate it) was quite nice and I recently tried TAGAP (The Game of Apocalyptic Penguins) and it turned to be quite decent as well. I'm sure there are other games here and there.

It's just we are constantly being bombarded with the latest browned and bloomed piece of shit of a 'next-gen' game for the people to say "wow", "kool", "dude, liek, it rocks", beat in four hours and store in a shelf to collect dust because "it gets old".

Jeez, beating mechs in Mech Commander or blasting surreal mecha fishes never gets old. ;_;

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:19 pm

The Freespace series

Awesome games indeed.

shmups.system11.org

Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

Re: Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

Re: Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

Re: Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?