Anyone else here steer clear of Western games?

[system11]

There are a lot of good games made in the West. You're idolising Japan and nothing more. For every Ikaruga and Odin Sphere, there are 2000 adventure dating sims, Mahjong games, and throwaway titles you wouldn't spend more than 15 minutes with.

[Skykid]

What we need is more stuff like God Hand and Chou Aniki (the gameplay could be a lot better, tho.) Stuff that have impact. Or like RE4 just so that people don't say I'm ghey.

Ghey.

[D]

It's not about percentages. It's about games you'd want/should to play/buy.

Right, which is why it's bullshit to say that Westerners don't make good games. They just don't make games in the genres you're interested in.

OK, quiz time.

I could produce a similar list of genres to point out all the weaknesses of japanese developers. Unless they're genres you care about, it doesn't mean dick though. And for the record, Rallisport Challenge 2 is the best driving/racing game produced since in the last few generations. There's no japanese competition for that.

Well, obviously there's numerous Western game fans here. Which is cool. But for me, other than the GOW series, all the games i've just went nuts over in the last few years have been Jap.

When you say shit like "I lose interest in a game if I see it's not made in Japan", it's fairly obvious that you prejudge the games before you play them. You have a negative attitude about the game before you play them, of course that's going to affect how you feel about the games.

Why would I even care about genres I'm not interested in?
Let's quote me:

Offcourse we are talking about the 5% of games that even matter. For all I care Japan could release 1 billion versions of barbie, the real doll. It's not about percentages. It's about games you'd want/should to play/buy.

barbie representing a genre I don't care about.
I don't care if there are good games in a genre I don't care about.
I don't care if there are bad games in a genre I don't care about.

Offcourse everybody should just talk about their favorite genres and if or not their favorite genres are best done in country x or country y.

[Stormwatch]

As for FPS games that I've played on PS2, all of them played like crap because the controller itself is not that great for it.

What genre is NOT harmed by the DualShit?

[evil_ash_xero]

But on a positive East meets West note, Bionic Commando Rearmed got a 9.4 on IGN and they proclaim it to be the best game on PSN network.

Is this supposed to hold some sort of value?

Western games are amazing. We make the best rougelikes.

Everything I say is of value. You should listen! It's for your own good, i'm telling you.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

It's not about percentages. It's about games you'd want/should to play/buy.

Right, which is why it's bullshit to say that Westerners don't make good games. They just don't make games in the genres you're interested in.

OK, quiz time.

I could produce a similar list of genres to point out all the weaknesses of japanese developers. Unless they're genres you care about, it doesn't mean dick though. And for the record, Rallisport Challenge 2 is the best driving/racing game produced since in the last few generations. There's no japanese competition for that.

Well, obviously there's numerous Western game fans here. Which is cool. But for me, other than the GOW series, all the games i've just went nuts over in the last few years have been Jap.

When you say shit like "I lose interest in a game if I see it's not made in Japan", it's fairly obvious that you prejudge the games before you play them. You have a negative attitude about the game before you play them, of course that's going to affect how you feel about the games.

You do have a fair point that they are going to have an uphill battle to some degree, but like I said, where did this prejudice come from? From playing numerous Western games that aren't up my alley, and realizing that most Western games aren't for me. I would be a complete liar, and somewhat of an idiot if I was like "I haven't liked 99 percent of Western games I have played, but it affects me notwhatsoever when I am looking to buy a new game". I mean, it's only natural. But I will give it a shot, and even though it is having a bit of a uphill struggle, if it really suits me, I can like(tomb raiders) and downright love(GOW) Western games. It's just massively rare, and if I didn't say "I steer clear of U.S. games", i'd be lying, but I don't think it really clouds my judgement on the ones I do play. Of course, I tend to just play the blockbusters, since those are the ones i'm always hearing about.

I just don't agree with those who think that those of us who have a taste for one thing makes us unreasonable towards other things. Hey, I don't like U.S. punk much at all, but i'm a big Misfits fan. It certainly didn't cloud my judgement when I heard them. I think this is the same with those of us that mainly like Jap or Western games.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

There are a lot of good games made in the West. You're idolising Japan and nothing more. For every Ikaruga and Odin Sphere, there are 2000 adventure dating sims, Mahjong games, and throwaway titles you wouldn't spend more than 15 minutes with.

I do not idolize Japan. lol

I mean, I only like a handful of things from there, even I appreciate an overall artform rather than the actual results(manga and anime). I don't even really like almost any of their films(i'll stick with South Korea for asian movies).

But when it comes to games, I just think they are in the zone. Are there horrible games? Absolutely. But I can count how many Western games I like on two hands, and I would be unable to count how many Japanese games I like or love. To me, this is not idolization. It's my taste. And I don't see how it makes me idolize Japan in that I only really like their games.

We can disagree here, that's cool, but i'm a little surpirsed by people's responses that make me come across like some sushi eating, anime watching, hentai porn masturbating, cosplay wearing japan-o-file who bows whenever he meets his fellow gamers. It's just not true, and it's a real ridiculous assumption.

s/m

[Ganelon]

What genre is NOT harmed by the DualShit?

The controller itself is quite decent, even though the overall sturdiness is pretty bad. I can do 360s and dash-in 720s without a problem on the DS2. Same on an Xbox controller too. IMO, they're both better than the oft-praised SNES pad.

evil_ash_xero: I think if I didn't enjoy more strategic games (the RPGs, wargames, and sims) that I mentioned, I'd be in the same boat as you. But since I enjoy numerous genres that the west has been very strong in (genres that may not be appreciated by the target audience of this particular forum), I have a high appreciation for what they've done and esp. what they invented.

While Japan still focused on lame 2D perspective racers, the US was already dabbling in 3D. While Japan had the most annoying mecha targeting games, the US was concocting incredibly complex 3D mecha sims. While Japan was stuck on twitch arcade action, the west had already started the RPG and adventure genres. While Japan doled out one sidescroller after another, US 3D action titles were already popping out left and right.

There's no doubt I enjoy far more JP games overall but US games really try to push themselves beyond the box, succeeding in providing the thrill of individuality and freedom that's constrained in JP games.

As I've said elsewhere (this applies mainly to the differences between JRPGs and CRPGs), consider playing a game to be a walk through a garden where you're the visitor and the developer is the caretaker. In a JP game, you're confined to one path (or a very few paths) but that path is adorned with many beautiful flowers that make your entire experience from entrance to exit a memorable one.

In a US game, you're given the whole garden to roam around and explore as you will, with many exits to choose from. Since you could be anywhere, the caretaker can't spend as many resources preparing any single path to look as wonderful as in a JP game. But the freedom of wandering around the garden at your own leisure and choice is an exhilarating experience. And that's why after playing some JRPGs, I certainly find it refreshing to assume a more "role-playing" role in a CRPG.

[MR_Soren]

I don't actively avoid Western games, but I do find myself unimpressed by a lot of the big-hype western games. God of War, Halo, GTA, etc.

[The n00b]

I don't actively avoid Western games, but I do find myself unimpressed by a lot of the big-hype western games. God of War, Halo, GTA, etc.

I don't even need to name a list of Japanese games that have fallen under the weight of their hype. I'll just mention this one series...

The Metal Gear Solid Games.

If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

[Zebra Airforce]

Everything I say is of value.

But nothing IGN says is of value.

Metal Gear Solid Games. If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKV9ONpDgw4

[Skykid]

I don't actively avoid Western games, but I do find myself unimpressed by a lot of the big-hype western games. God of War, Halo, GTA, etc.

I don't even need to name a list of Japanese games that have fallen under the weight of their hype. I'll just mention this one series...

The Metal Gear Solid Games.

If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

Er...Final Fantasy anyone? Let's not forget how absolutely ghey this has become, partly relying on, and appealing to, Western cosplayers and a huge western FF fanbase. A very good reason to avoid a Japanese game series if you ask me.

[jonny5]

i only play shmups(cave )and to a lesser degree fighting games.....thats it

when western companies produce these kinds of games they almost always suck...

so ya......i definitely steer clear of western games

[MR_Soren]

I don't actively avoid Western games, but I do find myself unimpressed by a lot of the big-hype western games. God of War, Halo, GTA, etc.

I don't even need to name a list of Japanese games that have fallen under the weight of their hype. I'll just mention this one series...

The Metal Gear Solid Games.

If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

I don't have a problem with MGS (1-3 anyway), but you have a point. Games like Final Fantasy also get tons of hype and I think they're pretty dull RPGs compared to something un-hyped like Shin Megami Tensei.

It just seems that Western games are more likely to get a lot of hype than Japanese games, so whenever I think about unimpressive over-hyped games, they're usually from Western developers.

[system11]

It just seems that Western games are more likely to get a lot of hype than Japanese games, so whenever I think about unimpressive over-hyped games, they're usually from Western developers.

Have you considered that the level of hype is all about home markets? In Japan many Western games receive little or no fanfare, while upcoming local titles are given huge exposure that we aren't subjected to.

[evil_ash_xero]

I don't actively avoid Western games, but I do find myself unimpressed by a lot of the big-hype western games. God of War, Halo, GTA, etc.

I don't even need to name a list of Japanese games that have fallen under the weight of their hype. I'll just mention this one series...

The Metal Gear Solid Games.

If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

I don't have a problem with MGS (1-3 anyway), but you have a point.

You know, I actually think Kojima learned his lesson a BIT from MGS2 to MGS3. There were still tons of cinematics, but the codec sessions were greatly reduced, and they basically said "do this, do that". And the story was far more coherant. I still don't know what I think about the lack of really good radar on that game though.

Did he make a step backwards with 4? I'm pretty psyched to play it, but I don't have a PS3 yet. I mean, I expect tons of cinemas, but when I play it a second time, I can just fast forward them. They didn't bring back the psycho amount of codec conversations or anything did they?

One question I have for you western game players.... I have a friend, whose opinion I trust, who basically likes to have sex with Mass Effect. Would this game be for a guy like me who doesn't like many Western games?


Off topic, BLOODFLOWERS, is your name from the Cure album or something else? Just curious, being a huge Cure fan myself.

s/m

[The n00b]

I don't even need to name a list of Japanese games that have fallen under the weight of their hype. I'll just mention this one series...

The Metal Gear Solid Games.

If this series wasn't an otaku's wet dream come true, there would be no freakin way it would sell so many copies.

I don't have a problem with MGS (1-3 anyway), but you have a point.

You know, I actually think Kojima learned his lesson a BIT from MGS2 to MGS3. There were still tons of cinematics, but the codec sessions were greatly reduced, and they basically said "do this, do that". And the story was far more coherant. I still don't know what I think about the lack of really good radar on that game though.

Did he make a step backwards with 4? I'm pretty psyched to play it, but I don't have a PS3 yet. I mean, I expect tons of cinemas, but when I play it a second time, I can just fast forward them. They didn't bring back the psycho amount of codec conversations or anything did they?

One question I have for you western game players.... I have a friend, whose opinion I trust, who basically likes to have sex with Mass Effect. Would this game be for a guy like me who doesn't like many Western games?


Off topic, BLOODFLOWERS, is your name from the Cure album or something else? Just curious, being a huge Cure fan myself.

s/m

You have learned much yet so little. There are no western game players merely gamers, otakus, and little kids who live for counter strike.

[neorichieb1971]

The problem with most western devcos is that they don't do anything different from what they have been doing for years. 90% of sales in western markets is sport, racing, FPS and mindless violence like GTA.

Some Japanese games have a little heart about them and I like that.

[TLDragoon]

You know, I actually think Kojima learned his lesson a BIT from MGS2 to MGS3. There were still tons of cinematics, but the codec sessions were greatly reduced, and they basically said "do this, do that". And the story was far more coherant. I still don't know what I think about the lack of really good radar on that game though.

Did he make a step backwards with 4? I'm pretty psyched to play it, but I don't have a PS3 yet. I mean, I expect tons of cinemas, but when I play it a second time, I can just fast forward them. They didn't bring back the psycho amount of codec conversations or anything did they?

One question I have for you western game players.... I have a friend, whose opinion I trust, who basically likes to have sex with Mass Effect. Would this game be for a guy like me who doesn't like many Western games?

s/m

I can't really compare 4 to 2 or 3 since I haven't played much of the former and none of the latter. That being said, the codec is used, but it's no where near as obtrusive as MGS 1. There are a lot of cut scenes, and I thoroughly enjoyed them because they do a lot of explaining. I actually feel like I have a firm grasp on the story even without having much experience with the series.

As for Mass Effect, I have no comment on it specifically due to not having played it; however, I've never really liked anything that Bioware's produced, and I haven't touched anything by them since NWN. It's not that I dislike "Western" style RPGs. I loved Morrowind (though I can't say the same for Oblivion) and Deus Ex. Bioware's battle engines just bore me.

[Daedalus]

There's a saying "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". I gotta say, Japan turns out way, way, -way- more crap than western markets. Not convinced?

Two words: Interactive fiction.

And lets not forget the thousands of sub-par pachinko and slot games, horse racing games, 99% of the simple series 2000 games, etc etc.

To evil_ash_xero - You may not realize it, but you're being excessively biased in favor of Japan. When an American remake turns out well (BC:R) you say "It's based on a Japanese game". When it turns out poorly (1942) you say, "It had an American development team". Western developers take the blame either way, eh?

[Twiddle]

eastern developers come out with a far, far worse library of video games by ratio than western developers, just that world of warcraft is so bad that it just about makes up for the disparity

in fact if you asked me to make a list of what games i hate off the top of my head 7 out of 10 would be japanese games or at least eastern

[evil_ash_xero]

eastern developers come out with a far, far worse library of video games by ratio than western developers, just that world of warcraft is so bad that it just about makes up for the disparity

in fact if you asked me to make a list of what games i hate off the top of my head 7 out of 10 would be japanese games or at least eastern

WELL, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't even think of a handful of Western games that even come close to J's best.

And then there's the long list of games that I just don't even care about.

I'm a little surprised that there are a number of you here that don't really like Jap games. I mean, holy crap, there's tons of good for the tons of bad, yeah, but the good is like classic stuff. I don't think almost any Western games come close. But obviously I think that, since I started this thread.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

There's a saying "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". I gotta say, Japan turns out way, way, -way- more crap than western markets. Not convinced?

Two words: Interactive fiction.

And lets not forget the thousands of sub-par pachinko and slot games, horse racing games, 99% of the simple series 2000 games, etc etc.

To evil_ash_xero - You may not realize it, but you're being excessively biased in favor of Japan. When an American remake turns out well (BC:R) you say "It's based on a Japanese game". When it turns out poorly (1942) you say, "It had an American development team". Western developers take the blame either way, eh?

1942 is an original game. It's not a remake. Nor is Commando 3. Hence the 3. And they aren't that great.

Bionic Commando is a full-on remake which is VERY true to the original. There's no comparison between the first two games I mentioned, and the last game I mentioned.

The othere game I have mentioned is Contra 4, and even though WayForward made it as kind of a remix game, it has more than enough of it's own stuff going on for me to give them props. But...BUT..the game is very faitful to the gameplay of a Japanese made frachise. So, without the solid foundation, I don't think an original title would be all that great. I mean, what else has WayForward done that is noteworthy? I know that had that little platformer on GBC that was well-recieved, but C4 is far more liked and applauded in the gaming community.

They deserve props, but there's no way they would have came up with such a kicking game like that if they didn't take tremendously from the gameplay and stages and bosses from older games.

Ah well, you guys think what you want.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

You know, I actually think Kojima learned his lesson a BIT from MGS2 to MGS3. There were still tons of cinematics, but the codec sessions were greatly reduced, and they basically said "do this, do that". And the story was far more coherant. I still don't know what I think about the lack of really good radar on that game though.

Did he make a step backwards with 4? I'm pretty psyched to play it, but I don't have a PS3 yet. I mean, I expect tons of cinemas, but when I play it a second time, I can just fast forward them. They didn't bring back the psycho amount of codec conversations or anything did they?

One question I have for you western game players.... I have a friend, whose opinion I trust, who basically likes to have sex with Mass Effect. Would this game be for a guy like me who doesn't like many Western games?

s/m

I can't really compare 4 to 2 or 3 since I haven't played much of the former and none of the latter. That being said, the codec is used, but it's no where near as obtrusive as MGS 1. There are a lot of cut scenes, and I thoroughly enjoyed them because they do a lot of explaining. I actually feel like I have a firm grasp on the story even without having much experience with the series.

Thanks for the response. I'll tell you this, if you think MGS1 had troubles with it's codec conversations, you should play Sons Of Liberty for about 15 minutes. It's INSANE.

s/m

[Ed Oscuro]

There's a saying "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence". I gotta say, Japan turns out way, way, -way- more crap than western markets. Not convinced?

Two words: Interactive fiction.

Otogirisou?!

Choose Ur Own Adventure books!?!?!111

[Acid King]

WELL, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't even think of a handful of Western games that even come close to J's best.

And then there's the long list of games that I just don't even care about.

I'm a little surprised that there are a number of you here that don't really like Jap games. I mean, holy crap, there's tons of good for the tons of bad, yeah, but the good is like classic stuff. I don't think almost any Western games come close. But obviously I think that, since I started this thread.

s/m

If you can't think of Western games that compare to Japan's best, you have a fucking hole in your head. Sorry. If you can't recognize the greatness of games like Doom, Starcraft, Civilization, Tempest or any other absofuckinglutely classic games developed by western devs that have no comparable Japanese developed counterparts then your focus is so incredibly narrow as to make any statement about western games being bad meaningless. You'll just dismiss those games by saying "I'm not interested in them". It's ridiculous.

The fact is you're not really steering clear of western games, it's that western developers don't produce games in the genres you're interested in. That's fine, but saying that Western devs don't make anything that compares to japans best is bullshit when your perspective is so narrow.

[Ed Oscuro]

cc: everything Acid King just wrote.

I like "Jap" games more than enough not to call them "Jap" or "Nipper" games.

How many of the games we tout as greats here on Shmups are Western-developed? Stargate, Robotron 2084, not much else rly.

[evil_ash_xero]

WELL, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't even think of a handful of Western games that even come close to J's best.

And then there's the long list of games that I just don't even care about.

I'm a little surprised that there are a number of you here that don't really like Jap games. I mean, holy crap, there's tons of good for the tons of bad, yeah, but the good is like classic stuff. I don't think almost any Western games come close. But obviously I think that, since I started this thread.

s/m

If you can't think of Western games that compare to Japan's best, you have a fucking hole in your head. Sorry. If you can't recognize the greatness of games like Doom, Starcraft, Civilization, Tempest or any other absofuckinglutely classic games developed by western devs that have no comparable Japanese developed counterparts then your focus is so incredibly narrow as to make any statement about western games being bad meaningless. You'll just dismiss those games by saying "I'm not interested in them". It's ridiculous.

The fact is you're not really steering clear of western games, it's that western developers don't produce games in the genres you're interested in. That's fine, but saying that Western devs don't make anything that compares to japans best is bullshit when your perspective is so narrow.

And now the debate turns personal. These are games, not fucking politics or religion. Excuse me while I go clean out this hole in me head.

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

WELL, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I can't even think of a handful of Western games that even come close to J's best.

And then there's the long list of games that I just don't even care about.

I'm a little surprised that there are a number of you here that don't really like Jap games. I mean, holy crap, there's tons of good for the tons of bad, yeah, but the good is like classic stuff. I don't think almost any Western games come close. But obviously I think that, since I started this thread.

s/m

If you can't think of Western games that compare to Japan's best, you have a fucking hole in your head. Sorry. If you can't recognize the greatness of games like Doom, Starcraft, Civilization, Tempest or any other absofuckinglutely classic games developed by western devs that have no comparable Japanese developed counterparts then your focus is so incredibly narrow as to make any statement about western games being bad meaningless. You'll just dismiss those games by saying "I'm not interested in them". It's ridiculous.

The fact is you're not really steering clear of western games, it's that western developers don't produce games in the genres you're interested in. That's fine, but saying that Western devs don't make anything that compares to japans best is bullshit when your perspective is so narrow.

I DO say that they are just not up my alley. I'm not saying they aren't good. I'm saying they're not for me. Can no one understand this difference. Do I have to say, "it's not for me, but it fanfuckingtastic!" for you to understand what i'm saying???

s/m

[evil_ash_xero]

cc: everything Acid King just wrote.

I like "Jap" games more than enough not to call them "Jap" or "Nipper" games.

I'm a closet racist who resents the yellow people. It's got to be the case.



s/m