popawell wrote:German and Russian as ANGRY languages
Remember that Simpsons episode when Lisa got into the Russian quarter? Those two guys, playing chess peacefully while shouting the shit out of them with harmless words
German can be pretty harsh.
Ich mag SAUERKRAUT, aber nicht UFFM Oktoberfest sondern nur inner Gosse wo ich Ratten darin KNETEN kann. PRÜGELEI wurde nicht erfunden um den Menschen zu ZERSTÖREN, vielmehr ist sie ein AUSDRUCK menschlicher INKOMPETENZ!
Just compare:
Butterfly... sooooooft - Translation: SCHMETTERLING.
Note: the verb 'schmettern' means 'to smash'. That should explain all about the softness that is there to be connected with a schmetterling
I've been studying Japanese since about 2001 and majored in it in college. A number of real-life problems have kept me from studying consistently during all the time between then and now, and I've only spent about 18 months in Japan altogether for similar reasons. I'm not as fluent as I expected to be after 7 years, but I'm not doing badly either. Speaking and kanji have always been weaknesses for me, though.
Speaking is hard in the beginning. You've got to put yourself in a situation where you can do it a lot every day (or at least every week), and you've got to get over things like embarrassment and general quietness. Also, it's hard to establish relationships with people who will make good speaking partners; on one hand, if your Japanese sucks, you won't be able to talk about enough to build a strong friendship in many cases. On the other, if their English is good, you'll wind up reverting to English too often because it's just so much easier.
Human memory is a curious thing, and it's very tricky when it comes to vocabulary words. There is such a huge difference between being able to recognize a word that you are reading and can stare at, and being able to pick up the word in a fast conversation. The real problem, though, is being able to instantaneously summon up a word for your own use in speaking. In the end, it's like you'll have to learn the word twice, and you won't really be able to say you know any word fully until you are comfortable with it in conversation. Based on how strong your reading ability sounds at the moment, I would guess that this will be your greatest frustration.
If you are studying for hours every day out of a book and that's all you can do, great. If you think you can find an opportunity to do real work on your speaking, though, I strongly encourage you to do so. I guarantee, you'll get more benefit per hour of time spent if you do this instead of staring at a book. Probably several times more. It might not help as much on the JLPT, but in the long run, you'll be better off not worrying about that as much anyway.
You pretty much nailed my current situation right now. I realize that book study will only get me so far, so I hope I get into a situation where I could really start using it. In the meantime, I like to have a goal to keep my motivation to study up (which is JLPT 2.)
"Sooo, what was it that you consider a 'good salary' for a man to make?"
"They should at least make 100K to have a good life"
...
I started out just like a lot of the people here, studying from my bedroom in the states, then took classes, went to college and then came to Japan. Of these steps I can tell you for sure that my college education was basically a waste of time. Had I simply come to Japan and immersed myself from the getgo I would have made much more progress. Really, a 1 year program at one of the exchange universities like Sophia or something might have done wonders too.
But anyways, I passed the JLPT 2 in 2004 and JLPT 1 in 2006 which got me into translating which I currently do for a game company. No one will like this but I'll say it anyways: JLPT is a HORRIBLE way to learn Japanese. Yeah you'll be able to read, and maaaybe listen. But it's the same ethic that Japanese teaching is based on from the beginning: _receive_. Be spoken to, do not speak. Read, do not write. Horrible educational principles and a good reason that there are so few successful Western Japanese speakers/writers.
I would suggest the exact converse, to continually place yourself in situations where you need to use meaningful Japanese. Do you make music? Perform with other musicians. Play games? Discuss them. But even these strategies are somewhat standard. The way I learned most of my spoken Japanese was for instance getting involved in social movements around me, specifically labor union activity. I met a lot of people that way and learned Japanese that's been pretty critical to my experience in workplaces ever since.
So I honestly think you have to not only listen, but to speak, and to speak you have to struggle. Might sound cheesy but I mean it in the most general sense.
I don't think anyone has ever said that it is a great way to study, or even to mark ones achievements. It marks your ability to study for that test, and nothing more really. The reading comprehension part I think is the only part that can be applied to something like an application for a job or college.
Still, they are the only current universal way to benchmark your language skills. So, here we are.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
A lot of the exchange programs in Japan are a joke, too, though. I did a year in Kumamoto, which at my university was the alternative to going to Sophia. Supposedly, Kumamoto was more challenging, which is why I chose it. However, the classes were 75% lecture and 25% answering the teacher's question about some text. This, as I'm sure you know, is just the dumbest thing ever. I learned more chatting with the Korean students in between classes than I did in the classes themselves.
The only effective language classes are the ones where, after the elementary stage, the teacher basically tells people to come to class prepared to talk about something, and forces the students to just talk to each other while helping them only sparingly. There are probably programs somewhere in Japan that do this, but it's so out of step with what Japanese schools normally do that I have to think it's pretty scarce.
Eventually, I just settled on the girlfriend route.
You know what my favorite example of this is? This song by Laibach (particularly, the 2:45—3:00 segment). The video is also my favorite example of hilarity so beautifully crafted where it's impossible to tell if it was intentional or not.
Russian does sound harsh, but really, it's only when the context is supposed to sound harsh. Otherwise I'd say it's rather neutral overall.
Matskat wrote:This neighborhood USED to be nice...until that family of emulators moved in across the street....
I don't think anyone has ever said that it is a great way to study, or even to mark ones achievements. It marks your ability to study for that test, and nothing more really. The reading comprehension part I think is the only part that can be applied to something like an application for a job or college.
Still, they are the only current universal way to benchmark your language skills. So, here we are.
No one has said that in this thread. But the government certainly would, and it functions as an objective standard for not only college admission for Korean/Chinese students (other foreigners too possibly I'm not sure) but also for getting a job in any job speaking Japanese. The JLPT is massively overvalued. Really what we need is a slower approach that includes much of the learning people do in JLPT along with conversational and situational spoken Japanese. I would also like to see speech making and sakubun included in Japanese education. Often many Japanese schools in Japan tend to over-concentrate on studying for the JLPT whereas many Japanese programs in the states focus on really boring shit like Edo poetry and whatnot which yeah might be interesting after a very long engagement with the language and society, but just get in the way of producing functional Japanese speakers.
We just got a new foreign guy at my job. Really nice guy but massively over-cautious. Says 'sumimasen' about everything and bows obsequiously. Stumbles through keigo without getting his meaning across. He's a pretty good example of an over-emphasis on text-based learning, having been a JET CIR for two years his main job was translating text. And that he can do well. But when it comes to discussing basic shit in the workplace he falls apart.
I agree w/ you for the most part, but I see the JLPT really no different than a lot of college degrees. True some people will go into their field, and truly use what they learned in school as a tool. A shit load though, will not... not in the slightest. However, the degree still at least measures that the individual was able to apply himself and get the work done which needed to be done.
Obviously how glorious that is depends on the school, subject, and all that shit, but the general idea is the same. You're not going to accidentally pass the JLPT1 (or even 2 for that matter). They require a stupid amount of studying, and there's plenty to learn along the way. It's definitely not a signal to quit studying though, and there's the whole issue of speaking. For the most part, the spoken Japanese can be judged in minutes, usually in an interview. At least is the case in my experience.
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
