Is Persona 3 any good?

[MR_Soren]

Nocturne's lack of character development

One could argue that Nocturne has the best character development as your choices and answers impact the game's ending, and your character develops as you decide.

I realize it doesn't contain a melodramatic epiphany scene where the main character finds some new resolve or set of morals, but you, playing the role of the main character, can have that moment yourself. I find that role-playing is more satisfying than watching, and it's something most console RPGs completely lack.


What I've noticed that most people dislike about Nocturne is that there is no pre-scripted banter between party members. Personally, I think that's one of the things that makes Nocturne better than most RPGs.

By "lack of character development" I meant the characters have absolutely no personality whatsoever. They have objectives, "reasons" and ideals, but they're still empty, soulless, and there's no interaction between them except for "do you agree with me? [yes/no]". They're just plain forgettable, and are like secondary characters when compared to their objectives.

It's perfectly fine if you don't like this kind of interaction, but for me it's essential to keep me interested in the story. I don't like to "role play", I like to see the story develop regardless of my existance as a "player", and without trying to make me feel like I'm a part of it, as if I was reading a book in second person.

Then again, I shouldn't have described this as a "flaw" on my previous post, I guess. It totally cripples the game to me (since I play RPGs exclusively for story - or should I say, for character interaction - most of the time), but there are obviously people who prefer it this way, and to these people Nocturne is nothing short of "perfect".

I often think the name RPG no longer fits most games in the genre, but that would be a whole new topic.

Most "RPG" fans these days prefer the story/banter over all else, even gameplay. It doesn't make sense to me, but my love for games like Nocturne and Etrian Odyssey probably makes no sense to them either.

Just another gaming minority I find myself in.


Back to Persona 3, I thought it odd that you considered the game's combat system to be a huge flaw. I thought it was quite good. Broken, but still much more enjoyable than most RPGs.

[ForceDevice]

I often think the name RPG no longer fits most games in the genre, but that would be a whole new topic.

Most "RPG" fans these days prefer the story/banter over all else, even gameplay. It doesn't make sense to me, but my love for games like Nocturne and Etrian Odyssey probably makes no sense to them either.

Just another gaming minority I find myself in.

Your love for Nocturne makes sense to me at least

Actually, I feel I'm even more of a minority than you are. I play RPGs (and most other games) looking for the same thing as when I read a book or when I watch a movie. That might have something to do with the fact that I'm a writer, and as such I have a special love for well-made stories and especially for memorable characters that most other gamers don't. And IMO, RPGs are a great way to tell a story, as long as gameplay doesn't get too much into the way (see my posts on the Metal Gear Solid thread for example :3).

Still, as I said before, I perfectly understand people who like gameplay over story, and don't think they're a minority... for example, there are many, many RPG lovers in my country who don't speak english, and like their games just for playing them.

Back to Persona 3, I thought it odd that you considered the game's combat system to be a huge flaw. I thought it was quite good. Broken, but still much more enjoyable than most RPGs.

Did you seriously enjoy it? I'm the one who finds it odd, then.

You said you like to "play" games instead of "watching" them, right? And P3's system makes you only watch the battles most of the time - precisely the reason why I hated it. I felt like I spent 10% of the battles inputting commands for my character and 90% only watching as my party screwed up. >_>

Seriously, a turn-based system that gives you control over only one character just doesn't cut it for me. It's too boring. D:

[MR_Soren]

Back to Persona 3, I thought it odd that you considered the game's combat system to be a huge flaw. I thought it was quite good. Broken, but still much more enjoyable than most RPGs.

Did you seriously enjoy it? I'm the one who finds it odd, then.

You said you like to "play" games instead of "watching" them, right? And P3's system makes you only watch the battles most of the time - precisely the reason why I hated it. I felt like I spent 10% of the battles inputting commands for my character and 90% only watching as my party screwed up. >_>

Seriously, a turn-based system that gives you control over only one character just doesn't cut it for me. It's too boring. D:

Most turn-based RPG combat systems are bogged down by overly long animations. They are also strategically simple and amount to "mash attack and heal when necessary." I find that boring as I'm not really getting mentally involved in the combat. Just constantly hitting the "confirm" button to keep attacking. Sure, these games have lots of spells and other abilities that can be used, but the outcome of a battle is rarely affected by the spells or abilities used. It's like the different spells exist solely to display different graphics to the player.


In P3's combat system, the strategy was to knock down all enemies and do an all-out attack. What made it interesting was exploiting weaknesses to get them knocked down. This made combat more interesting as mixed enemy groups were often like a puzzle where I had to figure out which tactics to issue and which personas to use so I could win the fight as efficiently as possible. This not only involved in-combat strategy, but also a lot of planning while picking and fusing the personas I would bring with me.

Most P3 fights were incredibly easy if you did them right, but could kill you just as fast if you made bad decisions. It was nice compared to most RPGs where your tactics have little impact on the overall outcome. This is because most RPGs adjust difficulty by boosting HP and damage output and a "hard" fight is really just a long fight where you have to heal more often. P3's system of weaknesses and resistances allowed fights to increase in difficulty while still remaining short and tactical. It felt like my decisions in combat actually mattered.


I disagree with the notion that 90% of the time was spent watching allies mess up. By playing right, the MC could take 4+ turns in a row, kill all the baddies, and no time would be spent watching allies. If the AI did get turns I found out that they took smarter actions if the enemies were analyzed, and would usually behave predictably if I issued tactics.

However, there were times when the AI was still frustratingly stupid. I usually didn't mind as it made me feel more like I was playing the MC instead of an omnipotent being who directly controls everybody. It worked well for the feel of the game, IMO. I'm not saying all games should AI the party members, but for this one game it was a nice change of pace.


FWIW, I did enjoy the banter in P3. I just don't like how it's replay value is killed by having to watch it all again and by having no ability to impact the story.

[ForceDevice]

Just so you know, I like the weakness exploit system used in P3, as I like it in all other Megaten games on the PS2. My _only_ gripe with the system is having control over the MC only, but I think we've discussed that enough. Except for that, it's still worlds better than most other turn-based RPGs.

I guess the real problem I had with P3 is that the Press Turn system from Nocturne/DDS was SO addictive and well done, I came to expect something as well done from every other turn-based installment from the Megaten universe, which isn't the case in P3 IMO. Oh God, I hate these three letters with a passion. Too bad they're a necessary evil.

[CMoon]

I think I tend to prefer the RPGs without character development if that is what Nocturne is. I'd rather chose for myself what kind of character I want to play; or rather, not have to worry about their personality at all.

[Zebra Airforce]

^ Bingo

[nietzschedancing]

I think I tend to prefer the RPGs without character development if that is what Nocturne is. I'd rather chose for myself what kind of character I want to play; or rather, not have to worry about their personality at all.

Likewise. That's why I love Nocturne - it's an exemplary role playing game.