POLL: PS2 Metal Gear Solids are actually a bit rubbish?

[junkeR]

Liquid Gear Solid > Metal Gear Solid

Cam Clarke FTW

[Lordstar]

I hated these games with a pashion but i really loved Metal gear solid on the PSX and 2. I not played the snake eater yet though.

For me metal gear was out and it was really fun as where a few other games that came out after it which were being targeted at the same buyers (syphob filter springs to mind) were just shite.

[MX7]

Zanzibar hamsters for life, bro.

I started playing MGS3 yesterday. It's quite tough, in a satisfying way, which I appreciate. Took me two and a half hours to reach the opening credits, lol. Having fun so far.

Virtuous Mission kicked my ass at first, too. This ain't Outer Heaven no more!

Getting the shit kicked out of him can make Snake tougher in the long run, though. Assuming you survive.

orly? Good to hear it's not just me

I've got a lot better at it now though. Havn't been spotted since the credits. Well, only once.

[ForceDevice]

I hated these games with a pashion but i really loved Metal gear solid on the PSX and 2. I not played the snake eater yet though.

Huh... what?

Fa few other games that came out after it which were being targeted at the same buyers (syphon filter springs to mind) were just shite.

You either didn't play Syphon Filter 2 or just have an awful taste for games, then.

I kinda understand people hating SF1 and especially 3 / Omega Shit, but SF2 is just too good to be hated.

[Ruldra]

I've got a lot better at it now though. Havn't been spotted since the credits. Well, only once.

At first I tried to be stealthy, but wherever I moved in to knockout a soldier, he'd always see me a moment before being KO'd. Even though it didn't set off the alarm, the game would consider me 'spotted'. And later on I started to get into trouble for leaving soldiers alive.

Then I just said 'fuck this' and proceeded to kill every single one. Found a way to kill tons of soldiers safely without triggering the alarm, and the game became a walk in the park.

[Lordstar]

I hated these games with a pashion but i really loved Metal gear solid on the PSX and 2. I not played the snake eater yet though.

Huh... what?

Fa few other games that came out after it which were being targeted at the same buyers (syphon filter springs to mind) were just shite.

You either didn't play Syphon Filter 2 or just have an awful taste for games, then.

I kinda understand people hating SF1 and especially 3 / Omega Shit, but SF2 is just too good to be hated.

The whole tatical esponage games thing never did it for me at all. but Metal gear was a cracking bunch of games. I do want to play snake eater.

Syphon filter was pants the frame rate was cack the characters were shit and it was a bastard to play as the contolers were off. Metal gears contorls are fantastic its so easy to pick up. but not overley simple where you cant do what you need to do.

[Limbrooke]

Wells, you know, you miss on the story when you skip the cinemas. They seem to have a problem with keeping them to the point, which is my gripe.

Ok, are you then a person who doesn't have a gripe with story/plot?

The first time I cleared I watched all the cinemas, listened to all codec moments, and in the end a good time was had. I don't believe I had any issues back then... pardon the credits, and since then I've rarely watched any cinemas or codec transmissions if not for nostalgia or comedy.

[Ed Oscuro]

Syphon Filter > Syphon Filter 2, from what I've played.

Actually, I need to finish that second game. Underwhelming opening, and what's with the "lol ur in a hospital, whatcha gonna do now" crap?

[Skykid]

PS2 Metal Gear Solids are actually a bit rubbish?

How can something be a bit rubbish? Sounds like "a bit empty", or "a bit pregnant"...

On topic: While I'm not a fan of the series, I can't but notice that the games sold in the millions. If people had thought they were bad, the games probably wouldn't have sold as good. I suppose that answers your question.

PS.
Don't you think there should be an option between
"I think they're masterpieces." and
"They're pretty average games, nothing special." ?

As such, the poll fails.

The sun's out Ceph, don't forget to =

[Etrian]

I played through MGS back in 1999 or 2000.. somewhere around there. I remember I was 13 around then. MGS1 was fantastic, I really enjoyed it. It wasn't like anything I had ever played before.. the only thing I disliked about it was the fact that nobody had any eyes.

The PS2 came out, along with a MGS2 bundle. I was 16. I couldn't afford it so I asked my mother to higher purchase it for me. It took me 3 years to pay off.. I paid it off, and the PS2 still works great. It's sitting in my room right now. When I got it, the first thing I did was play through MGS2.

It felt like it had been rushed. The story didn't make as much sense as the original, and most of it was consumed by Raiden and the Colonel toying with him. I finished the game feeling disappointed. I did go back to play it a couple of times though.

I gave up on the series. I didn't bother with MGS3. I rented it, but the entire mass of green and lack of colour was sickening. I then watched some videos online.. bees? The story is completely out of whack now. I don't really care for MGS4 because of this. I wish Kojima would do something with his Zone of the Enders series instead.

[ForceDevice]

Syphon Filter > Syphon Filter 2, from what I've played.

Actually, I need to finish that second game. Underwhelming opening, and what's with the "lol ur in a hospital, whatcha gonna do now" crap?

The game only REALLY picks up after you're outside that hospital... though I did like the bridge mission before that.

And the reason why I like SF2 more than SF1 is just that SF2 has stealth missions. Except for that, they're about as good as each other.



---

You either didn't play Syphon Filter 2 or just have an awful taste for games, then.

I kinda understand people hating SF1 and especially 3 / Omega Shit, but SF2 is just too good to be hated.

Syphon filter was pants the frame rate was cack

You sure? I played through the first two SF games quite a few times and the framerate never bothered me.

the characters were shit

Care to explain why?

and it was a bastard to play as the contolers were off.

lol what

Metal gears contorls are fantastic its so easy to pick up.

lol what²

[Lordstar]

Syphon Filter > Syphon Filter 2, from what I've played.

Actually, I need to finish that second game. Underwhelming opening, and what's with the "lol ur in a hospital, whatcha gonna do now" crap?

The game only REALLY picks up after you're outside that hospital... though I did like the bridge mission before that.

And the reason why I like SF2 more than SF1 is just that SF2 has stealth missions. Except for that, they're about as good as each other.



---

You either didn't play Syphon Filter 2 or just have an awful taste for games, then.

I kinda understand people hating SF1 and especially 3 / Omega Shit, but SF2 is just too good to be hated.

Syphon filter was pants the frame rate was cack

You sure? I played through the first two SF games quite a few times and the framerate never bothered me.

the characters were shit

Care to explain why?

and it was a bastard to play as the contolers were off.

lol what

Metal gears contorls are fantastic its so easy to pick up.

lol what²

There was just not that much depth to the main character and the game was not that great IMO. when you were running with the character it felt like he was running though mud. shooting was easy enough you lock you kill. but when it came to sniping it was really difficult and latter bad guys were all about head shot exclusive kills which did not appeal to me.

The whole cinematic feel to metal gear is great, I come for the game but I stay for the story. I cant even recall the particulars with the story of syphon filter it was that bad.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Wells, you know, you miss on the story when you skip the cinemas. They seem to have a problem with keeping them to the point, which is my gripe.

Ok, are you then a person who doesn't have a gripe with story/plot?

I love a good story. I don't like it taking forever to be told and interrupting gameplay every 5 minutes.

[The n00b]

How about stupidly long cutscenes and constant interruption of gameplay?

I like them except for those two "problems."

Good thing 95% of them can be skipped(for MGS2 anyway). Same for codec transmissions: triangle is your friend. The one that really bothers me is the end credits... no skip, that has to be my biggest gripe. The end credits is the longest of them all and cannot be skipped.

Stupidly long... again, if you skip them they seem to fly by. It's no Xenosaga, what a bore that series is.

They are essentially Splinter Cell games without the gameplay...

Phew, I needed a laugh today. Thanks!

So hitting the triangle as fast as possible in order to escape some nonsensical stupidly long cutscene is part of the gameplay? I want to thank you for the laugh but I'm worried that this form of "gameplay" is actually something avant garde that I'm "supposed" to enjoy.

So why can't Kojima just make a decent story? Even the halo games make an attempt at this by including the story in the novels. Didn't they sell millions too?

[Limbrooke]

I love a good story. I don't like it taking forever to be told and interrupting gameplay every 5 minutes.

Good, at least you don't straddle both sides of the fence. I suppose in that instance I agree with you as the way a story is told is important if you want the audience to give a crap or pay attention.

So hitting the triangle as fast as possible in order to escape some nonsensical stupidly long cutscene is part of the gameplay? I want to thank you for the laugh but I'm worried that this form of "gameplay" is actually something avant garde that I'm "supposed" to enjoy.

So why can't Kojima just make a decent story? Even the halo games make an attempt at this by including the story in the novels. Didn't they sell millions too?

Actually, you only need 'hit' triangle once per codec transmission... at least in MGS2. It's nice to have toggle.

Regarding other games he made; does Penguin Adventure have a decent story? I can't say it has a bad one, but whatever story is there is very limited. All the same, people tout this as one of the best. As they should, it has good game-play.

[black flag nc]

MGS2 was ass. Raiden is everything I hate about anime influence in games all rolled into one character.

[Etrian]

MGS2 was ass. Raiden is everything I hate about anime influence in games all rolled into one character.

Otacon says, "It's just like one of my Japanese animes!"

Just as planned.

[Skykid]

LOL AT EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR "MASTERPIECES."

You guys have no taste in games and should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Zebra Airforce]

LOL CAPSLOCK

Hey skykid, you never explained what it was about MGS3 you didn't like besides the fact that had to learn how to play it.

[BIL]

As Ceph pointed out, it's a broken poll. I got far more enjoyment out of MGS2 & MGS3 than the average title, and although I consider them very casual gaming, they certainly aren't "nothing special" to me. The drama and atmosphere are fun, the production values are wonderful, and the gameplay base is mostly stable and inoffensive. They're my favourite example of games I just enjoy for entertainment, rather than "performance" (as you do in 90% of the usual hardcore fare) or intense scrutiny (Silent Hill, the second of which I would consider a masterpiece in this "cinematic adventure" field). I particularly like that it's a series not above making fun of itself, or one that's ever pretended to not be a videogame. I've always found Kojima's obvious fondness for gaming conventions very charming. "Turn off your console immediately!" etc.

But neither are what I'd call "masterpieces." PS1 MGS1, I'd consider. It's still got the best combination of concise storytelling and an intricate plot, things MGS2 and MGS3 paled in respectively. I don't mind the rambling of MGS2 or the simpler, more emotive story of MGS3, but I think both sequels ended up less effective games for them.

About the gameplay itself, which I just consider peripheral to this series... I've really never understood these games being demanding on defaults. Maybe if you're unfamiliar with the control scheme, but I'd stopped hitting the dirt when I'd meant to shoot an advancing guard in the face by MGS2's release in 2001. Or if you're impatient, which would certainly do you in at non-Subsistence MGS3, with its restrictive camera.

[Shatterhand]

Syphon Filter isn't a bad game per se, but it's a pathetic attempt of trying a MGS-esque game. What's even funnier is that the developers seemed to believe they had an AWESOME game on the hands or something.

Syphon Filter 2 is the best on the series. There's some enjoyment to be had there, but it's not awesome... above average at the best. The PS2 game now.. it sucks horribly.

Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake is as good as MGS1 , if not better. IMO, that's how the series go:

MG2:Solid Snake > MGS1 > Metal Gear > MGS3 > MGS2.

Haven't played 4 (no PS3 for at least 5 years to me ), so can't compare. I still think all those games are UTTERLY AWESOME.

One thing that bothers me a bit is how MGS1 re-uses a LOT of stuff from the MSX games... to the point of having a key that changes with the temperature (which already appeared on Metal Gear 2), and Solid Snake being SURPRISED by it, even though he had already seen something like that. But most people haven't played the MSX games (I bet not even with them being in MGS3:Subsistence), so it doesn't hurt the experience that much.

[Lordstar]

Syphon Filter isn't a bad game per se, but it's a pathetic attempt of trying a MGS-esque game. What's even funnier is that the developers seemed to believe they had an AWESOME game on the hands or something.

yuuurp! All my friends bought in to the games hype. I was like wtf. . . Why is that guy running so slow?

[Shatterhand]

Syphon Filter isn't a bad game per se, but it's a pathetic attempt of trying a MGS-esque game. What's even funnier is that the developers seemed to believe they had an AWESOME game on the hands or something.

yuuurp! All my friends bought in to the games hype. I was like wtf. . . Why is that guy running so slow?

It looked like he was running wearing diapers.

[Skykid]

LOL CAPSLOCK

Hey skykid, you never explained what it was about MGS3 you didn't like besides the fact that had to learn how to play it.

I can play Metal Gear mate, don't you worry about that. The problem is how poor they are compared to their predecessors:

Overcomplicated controls
Limited player movement
Stilted, frustrating play
Ridiculously disruptive (and retardedly long) cutscenes
God-awful storylines that make no sense to humans
Axeing Snake for Raiden
Raiden
Boring and slow
Flawed ideas (no radar, crummy 1st person perspective.)


I'm glad you all enjoyed them. Masterpieces they aint.

[BIL]

The problem is, lots of good games enjoyed by many are not average or masterpieces.

[Turrican]

But most people haven't played the MSX games (I bet not even with them being in MGS3:Subsistence)

*raises hand*

Yessir, I played both thanks to Subsistence. The original was pretty amazing for the idea, but the second really fleshes it out. Masterpieces for their times and highly enjoyable even today.

That said, MGS2 is above all else in this saga.

[Zebra Airforce]

I'm only talking about number 3 here, pal. I haven't spent much time the 2, and it doesn't look like I'll care to do so anytime soon.

Overcomplicated controls

Complicated controls are a result of depth. Without them you wouldn't be able to grab an enemy, hold them up as a shield, shoot another enemy, then throw the hostage aside. If you don't want to learn how to play -- and that's exactly how it sounds to me -- then that is your problem. Alien Soldier, Umihara Kawase... Many excellent games require some commitment from the player. If you want a game with depth you're going to have to learn how to harness the controls.

Limited player movement

Did you want Snake to fly?

Flawed ideas (no radar, crummy 1st person perspective.)

Flawed Ideas (can only shoot in one direction, 1 hit kills, can be completed in 30 mins.) And how is having a first person perspective worse than not having one?

Boring and slow

How is MGS1 any less boring?

So much for being a mouthpiece of the masses, eh?

[Shatterhand]

I still think the lack of radar actually made MGS3 a LOT more enjoyable. The tension is much higher without a radar.

That said, I wish the game would punish you more when you get caught. Like it has been said before, it's kinda easy to just kill everyone. In Splinter Cell (Another game to get into the MSG-esque stuff, except this one is pretty good) if you get caught the chances of you not getting killed are pretty small. Of course, Splinter Cell also feels a lot more realistic than MGS games (No fucked up characters), so it should be that way.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Quick get rid of the poll and rename the thread "I hate MGS games and you're all suck cause you like 'em."

Then, for content. The iron hand of autocracy.

"And that's a fact."

[Skykid]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here, I'm happy so many people got so many glorious hours of play out of them. I think its ridiculous to keep telling me I didn't bother to learn the system - I finished MGS1 and 2 and just gave up on 3 after a while because it was wack. But I endeavoured to play them all.

Did you want Snake to fly?

Yes, I did want him to fly. I wanted him to be able to fly in, and stealthily take out a room of people in seconds like a cold hardened killer. I wanted his movements to be fluid under pressure, and fluid under my fingers - not confined by an over complicated control system that forces the player to overcome it, rather than serving them in times of crisis. Not confined to a series of limited, structured movements that seriously limit any opportunity to feel creative.

The amount of stupid, lie down, kneel up, lie down moments all brought about by panicking because there are enemies firing at you you can't see were ridiculous. Like Earnest Evans. The control system needed an overhaul to meet the new scale of the graphics, not to bring back MGS1's system and make it even more complex and stuttering.

Anyway, crappy control setups, limited viewpoints and no radars can all be overcome with patience. The real problem is, unfortunately, Hideo Kojima. His over-inflated ambition is not served well by his lack of ability to tell a decent story. He needs to learn the art of editing desperately, and was far better with earlier platforms where he was more confined by the technology to only keep 'the best bits.'

I'll never forget that part in MGS2 when, in the middle of a search and diffusal mission for a series of bombs on serious realtime countdowns, Raiden stops to have a long, ten minute reminiscence with the bird on the comms link about when they spent the day in the park together and laughed with a bunch of schoolkids before going to see a Godzilla movie or something.

Hideo, you're sacked.