Discuss my unmade game and stuff...seems fun...

[Hulkcore]

So your list of things that are wrong with my argument is that it's true? Nice. In case you haven't read some of the posts before, I'm simply making a game that I want to play. If other people like it, cool, but I really don't care. And I'm certainly not being high and mighty, I just think it's ridiculous to continue telling me what's wrong with my game when it isn't even made yet. That's not critique, that's not helpful. It's simply a waste of server space. I'm sorry that you can't look past a rock hard definition of what a shmup is or can be. Rules are made to be broken, just as genres are made to be confused.

I'm not being defensive about taking something from one game and putting it directly into another. I'm defensive about the fact that there's absolutely nothing wrong with that and that it doesn't make anything more or less "original", which is a bullshit term because nothing is original and because many of the things which people hold to as incredibly original have their roots elsewhere. So basically I'm saying, you're an idiot for using that as a criticism when you'll probably praise it elsewhere.

And I know that the limitations of the internet sometimes make it hard to see where people are coming from. You can call me a misty-eyed 14 year old all you want, but the fact is that my education is all about writing stories in my mind, committing them to paper, and executing a plan to create a film from them. I approach this game no different, though it takes up less of my time because it it's a massive priority. It well still be hear when I'm done with whatever else.

So, short answer, stop holding onto the misconceived notion that a genre is a guideline on how to make something instead of a classification put on something once it's completed. Also, start providing real advice on how to accomplish what I am doing, and will continue to do, instead of telling me that I can't do it.

[Gungriffon Geona]

So your list of things that are wrong with my argument is that it's true? Nice.

I'm going to start right here because this is the most disgraceful trash of a way to handle an argument. You probably skimmed over what I said and looked for the only thing you could target, and that was it.
Let's make sure you are paying attention this time:

The point is this is true, but you aren't even trying to make the ideas here seem unique. they are very abruptly lifted from something else and tacked on.

This making a game for yourself, that's fine. I'm pretty sure your attitude about it isn't. I doubt you will even like it once it's done.

[Hulkcore]

Oh I read it all, but you're being ridiculous and are completely useless to me, so I'm going to continue to treat you as such. Instead of walking around with a stick up your ass you could be open minded and helpful. But you wanna be an ass, so I'll be an ass too.

But anyway. You think the gaming industry is full of completely new things and that no one simply lifts things from one game and puts it into another, at least nothing professional and great. This is of course wishful thinking. As an example I'll mention the 2 weapon setup, with a separate command for melee attacks and grenades that Halo used which was lifted abruptly and put into the Call of Duty series. Check it out sometime, it's the exact same setup. But the thing is that it worked well, so why not use it?

And let's take a look at attitudes here:

Me: Posting about the game I'm working on, my ideas, etc... hoping for help.

You: Attacking all sorts of things about a game that DOESN'T EXIST, providing nothing useful (and nothing that you haven't abruptly lifted from everyone else in this thread), and pretending to be so superior to me because OMG he wants to make a shmup that's not DDP!!

[cigsthecat]

It's better to talk about a project once you have something to show. That's what you should take away from this thread.

The other thing is that shoot em ups are not built on deep stories ; It's hardly surprising that a shooter forum isn't blown away at the suggestion of working a poorly written novella into the action.

[Hulkcore]

It's better to talk about a project once you have something to show. That's what you should take away from this thread.

The other thing is that shoot em ups are not built on deep stories ; It's hardly surprising that a shooter forum isn't blown away at the suggestion of working a poorly written novella into the action.

This is the stupid shit I'm talking about. What makes you think my writing is poor? All the time you've spent reading it? Are you one of my writing teachers? If so and you think I write poorly, you should stop giving me straight A's.

And still, keep clinging to the ridiculous notion that shoot em ups are defined by anything more than 2D gameplay involving shooting enemies and dodging bullets. Thanks for adding nothing new to this discussion other than insulting someone you haven't met about something you haven't read.

Seriously go back and read the first page of this thread where MotoHerp gives actual advice and isn't a worthless prick like you. You could learn from him, and worstplayer, and Bridget. These people actually had helpful things to say that have helped me keep moving forward.

[Gungriffon Geona]

And still, keep clinging to the ridiculous notion that shoot em ups are defined by anything more than 2D gameplay involving shooting enemies and dodging bullets. Thanks for adding nothing new to this discussion other than insulting someone you haven't met about something you haven't read.

WAAAAAAH THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT I DO SO I AM GONNA BE BUTTHURT ABOUT IT.

Oh I read it all, but you're being ridiculous and are completely useless to me, so I'm going to continue to treat you as such. Instead of walking around with a stick up your ass you could be open minded and helpful. But you wanna be an ass, so I'll be an ass too.

GOD GUYS YOU'RE SO MEAN FUCK YOU I'LL MAKE THIS I'LL SHOW YOU!!!!! >:[

[Hulkcore]

Grow up or get out my thread? You haven't said anything worthwhile, nor do I think you're capable of it. Other's have said everything you have said with more eloquence and understanding. You haven't read what I've posted, or you have failed to comprehend it. It would be better for you to keep quiet, you're certainly not hurting my feelings or helping me make my game. The more you post, the more juvenile and ignorant you sound.

[monkeyman]

I'm not really sure what all the hate is about here?
All Hulkcore is asking for is some help and CONSTRUCTIVE opinion there's really no nead to lay into him like this i'm sure.

I mean, yeah, the idea probably won't work so well (from what I've read) but does it really affect you that much if he makes some mistakes??

The way I see it, if the idea offends you so much then just don't read it!!

(obviously this isn't directed at everyone- justto clear that up )

[jonny5]

not so much hate as it is backlash at hulkcore's obvious inability to accept the truth....people finally told him the truth BLUNTLY and he cant handle it....

previous posters were simply commenting on how he was going about making the game and the odd game feature.....i simply pointed out the obvious fact that his game was basically the result of throwing all his favorite games in a blender....which prolly wont taste very good.....even if you do like all the flavors by themselves....(ooohh....nice analogy.....lolz)

i even said it wasnt a personal attack.....call it a reality check.....

the truth hurts...

and seriously....the whole time i was reading ths thread i was like....'what the hell is this guy thinking??'

the way he was defending everything....kinda retarded

'what do you mean a hit/miss system has no place in shmups?? it worked in diablo!!" not direct quote but you get the idea

come on

[Gungriffon Geona]

And he wonders why I decided to slap him in the face repeatedly.

[monkeyman]

Sure point out what's wrong but if he won't accept it, so what? leave it be, let him waste his time!!

I wasn't interested in starting another argument so I'll lkeave it at that.

And yeah, the hit/miss mechanic was one of the first things I pointed out as a bad idea. Most the other 'unusual' mechanics could probably made to work on some level, but if my bullet hits a bad guy then dammit I want it to hurt him.

[jonny5]

honestly i had no intentions of posting more than my initial post but i think the way he responded prompted gungriffon geona and i to respond in kind....

he wants to argue the validity of our points with weak arguments than he must expect to be slammed

im simply trying to save this kid a few months of his life that could be better spent doing something more worthwhile

[Hulkcore]

honestly i had no intentions of posting more than my initial post but i think the way he responded prompted gungriffon geona and i to respond in kind....

he wants to argue the validity of our points with weak arguments than he must expect to be slammed

im simply trying to save this kid a few months of his life that could be better spent doing something more worthwhile

I feel my response to your first post was in no way argumentative or hostile. Your post was a little less than civil, but I responded civilly.

You commented on some aspects of my game (which I appreciate), and I responded that some of the things you mention have already been changed. You said that it seems like I'm taking a bunch of ideas from different things and putting them together, I never disagreed with this, but I did state that this isn't necessarily a bad thing and is in fact the nature of such things. You stated that it seems like I'm coming from a PC gaming mindset, I agreed.

I see nothing about that interchange that was weak, rude, hostile, or anything but appropriate.

gungriffon geona decided to be an ass, probably hasn't read the rest of the thread (I'm guessing here...), and still has yet to say anything meaningful, worthwhile, or anything that hasn't already been mentioned numerous times in this thread.

So just to recap, some things that have been discussed to death in this thread:

1.) _____ idea isn't shmuppish.
2.) _____ doesn't work in shmups.
3.) Your game isn't original.

Things that haven't been discussed enough in this thread:

1.) _____ idea might work if you ______.
2.) I would try _______ instead.
3.) _____ needs some clarification because it sounds iffy.

This is the kind of discussion I'm looking for, and I hope it explains why I'm tired of reading gungriffon geona's posts since they do nothing but waste server space.

[jonny5]

ok then...

1) this idea might work if you removed the shmup aspects and just made a strategy game

2) i would try and come up with an original idea instead

3) no clarification is needed...the idea IS iffy

and as for my initial post....i said it wasnt a personal attack and i said it would be blunt.....

i just think it is funny that you are reacting so adversely to people pointing out the obvious fact that the idea/gameplay of your game is ridiculous....

and if you are just making it for yourself why seek advice or feedback??

you have to realize that fans of any of the genres you are trying to meld are going to scoff at it

[Hulkcore]

What kind of idiot makes a forum without an ignore feature?

[monkeyman]

Ok here's some thoughts on how you could develop this:

1: Ditch any randomness in attacks, that includes hit/miss chances and even damage rolls.
In fact if you want a good example of an action game with RPG mechanics then the castlevania games (SotN onwards) are a great example. Theres RPG syle stats/levelling up which determine damage etc but the only way you'll miss/fail to do damage is if the player actually misses the enemy or if you have the wrong equipment equiped.

2: Levelling up/ability development should work like an upgrade system.
Killing badguys grants appropriate exp which is then used to by new weapons/upgrade existing weapons and other ship stats like shield speed etc. There could also be some automatic stat increases but having points to spend on skills/stats would work best I think because you won't be reliant on good dice rolls.

3: Have plenty of weapon types which not only have different fire types and power but do different damage types which are effective against different types of enemies.

4: Use levels as 'dungeon areas' that the player can revisit.

5: Have interesting upgrades that must be discovered first like in rare item drops (castlevania style) or by finding a secret boss or something.

6: Try and have some optional areas where the game throws random waves at you for a set amount of time if you want to add length.

7: I'm really not sure if the mouse aiming combined with 'standard' shooting will work. TYhough without seeing exactly what you have in mind I can't come up with a solution.

8: Stop being so argumentative! This will not encourage people to help. + it makes you look childish!!

[Hulkcore]

Thank you for the great post.

1.) For now I'm still clinging to the system I have in place. Mind you the hit/miss chance is only for weapons/attacks that do physical damage. Fire, Energy, and Magic (not actually going to be called that...) attacks always hit. And in the mock up I've been running so far, which has this implemented, it isn't bothersome at all to me and it allows for easy balance tweaking for the future. I'm not opposed to ditching this if it ends up being unplayable with it, but I've been messing around with it and it isn't what people seem to think it is.

2.) Currently, individual weapons are different than skills. So unless it becomes too much to fuss with there will be both exp/skill points and money. Some skills function to add a damage type to your base attack. So if you use a skill that adds fire damage to your bullets, it will do so whether you have a shotgun equipped or a machine gun. But if I need to simplify, these could be combined some way possibly. I loathe automatic stat increases, so you will be in charge of spending your own stat/skill points.

3.) This is part of the backbone of this game. If I accomplish what I envision there will be a rather large variety of ways to blow stuff up and also to cover your ass. Balancing damage types will be crucial.

4.) Yup.

5.) I may try something like this, I like secrets in games, but I don't know how well it works to force players to find a secret in a game that isn't free roaming. Could get very frustrating.

6.) I doubt I'm going to need to add length, but perhaps something like this could be used as a training mode or area to test out different skill/weapon combinations and character builds.

7.) Right now, and I'm far from set in stone on this, WASD moves the player, right click fires your vehicles weapon (which shoots straight up), left click fires your handgun/skills in the direction of the crosshair which is aimed by the mouse. Control locks/unlocks the position of the crosshair in relation to the player. So if you wanted to you could lock the crosshair straight up at the beginning of the game, never change it, and it would play like any other shmup as far as that is concerned.

8.) I know, it's a character flaw.