Ketsui X and Daioujou Black Label X - Ports for Xbox 360

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:48 am

Microsoft are really going the right way of fucking up XBLA. First they cut the percentage share for devs now this. The platform seems to have zero quality standards measures anyway (look at all the tat on there already), then they say no to polished stuff like Caves games? Incredible. XBLA was the reason I bought a 360, but the service is going to take severe blows as a result of recent measures.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:42 am

"Out initial plan was to port lots of good arcade titles to XBLA."

I could say now something like "Har, har, I told you so!" but I guess that would be trolling, right

Seriously, this pretty much explains why the games ended up being disc releases instead of going worldwide via xbla. MS's sudden u-turn (after all the retro stuff so far!) is pretty dissapointing. Maybe it's not too late to let them know that while having more original content is nice and all there should also be a place for arcade stuff that hasn't had the chance for a western release yet.

SuperGrafx · Post by **SuperGrafx** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:26 pm

That's disappointing news indeed.
Particularly in light of the recent "original" crap they've been releasing on XBLA (Tiqual comes to mind instantly).

My suggestion would be to continue to release arcade ports alongside their precious 'original' crap. This way at least we have a choice in the matter. Seeing the Flash-inspired garbage produced so far by the XNA amateurs, I'm a little concerned about where XBLA is heading.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:29 pm

I find it ironic how it's called "Live Arcade", yet many of the appearing titles have nothing to do with arcade, while certain arcade hits don't have a go.

dmauro · Post by **dmauro** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:32 pm

Could someone please post a screencap of the vadar NOoooo scream because that is how I feel right now.

It's okay though. I can still buy a Japanese 360 or convince my roommate to mod his US 360 to play Ketsui, but to think that there might have been the possibility of other old Cave games like Guwange or Dangun Feveron on XBLA...

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:54 pm

dmauro wrote:but to think that there might have been the possibility of other old Cave games like Guwange or Dangun Feveron on XBLA...

Yep, that's the really heartbreaking part. I think we should all email Major Nelson about this, even if it's just to try and get them to split the service between 'new' games and arcade ports.

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:20 pm

bcass wrote:
dmauro wrote:but to think that there might have been the possibility of other old Cave games like Guwange or Dangun Feveron on XBLA...
Yep, that's the really heartbreaking part. I think we should all email Major Nelson about this, even if it's just to try and get them to split the service between 'new' games and arcade ports.

Splitting the service into a channel with original content and a further one with retro stuff would definitely be a good idea. Seems only Nintendo realized this so far...

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:16 pm

the xbox live arcade restrictions are stupid, but I must confess that I'm thankful it lead to hard copy releases of these cave games versus downloads.

I understand them wanting more original content like bionic commando rearmed ect over ports of crappy arcade titles (I said crappy ones... not good ones).

To bad their isn't someone with good taste working and making the calls. That way they could green light the best, or just let the best step to the front of the line.

Splitting the service into a channel with original content and a further one with retro stuff would definitely be a good idea. Seems only Nintendo realized this so far...

I agree on the split idea... nintendo has the right idea, just no harddrive.

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:33 pm

Strider77 wrote:the xbox live arcade restrictions are stupid

seattlexc · Post by **seattlexc** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:50 pm

I understand Microsoft wanting original games, but still, I'd take Ketsui over Jelly Truck any day.

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:17 pm

Spam this guys e-mail with complaints, please.

burnsro · Post by **burnsro** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:48 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:Spam this guys e-mail with complaints, please.

I sent him a message. Hopefully enough complaints will get through to the guy.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:25 am

Sent him a message yesterday as well. Said I was saddened that quality arcade titles couldn't find their place on XBLA even though there was the initiative to port them. :)

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:35 am

It's probably beyond futile to expect Microsoft to change the situation, but message sent anyway...

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:23 pm

"We secured these licenses, and finally talked with Microsoft. There they rejected all of our proposals saying, 'We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.'"

Well, this also rules out the possibility of Raiden Fighters Aces ever coming to XBLA as well, which is probably why it was recently released as a full priced game.

Then again, Triggerheart Exelica managed to get on the XBLA, so I don't know..

Enhasa · Post by **Enhasa** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:08 pm

I forget the details, but I think THE was due to the previous guy in charge, who actually wanted to get more of these games on Live. He was axed for the new guy so they could go in a new direction. I clicked around for a minute or two and this guy seems like a total douche.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:17 am

Microsoft XBLA wrote: 'We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.'

That's extremely fucking lame.

I think we need some more 90's and beyond ports for XBLA, but they do need to be "faithful" especially if this is the first time an arcade game has been ported.

Stuff like Namco Museum games can go on disc- a Namco Museum Complete Edition with the collection from all the PS1 packs up to Encore, and any other NM titles that never showed on PS1 (i.e. Galaga'88). Chuck them all on one $60 disc. I'm not too interested in paying $5 a pop for stuff like Pac-Man, Dig Dug, etc.

Getting Omega Five and Exelica is pretty good. Now what is MS's problem with Ketsui & DOJBL on XBLA? A "faithful" arcade port is better than a *cough* "enhanced" or "remixed" one like PS1 Viewpoint- with a new shitty suite of BGM replacing the arcade's hot soundtrack, and a frame rate that goes straight to the bottom of Hell. BTW, I think the redone graphics for XBLA Double Dragon absolutely blow.

I don't think DOJBL or Ketsui would go over the 250 MB limit, but if Robotron is 34 MB or so - who knows? Honestly MS should junk the download limits, especially when Sony has the 500 MB+ Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection on PS3.

Every one of the bad titles that hit XBLA will now be even more appalling. Now they'll all come with that nagging "You coulda' had DOJBL or Ketsui instead of this shit, thank Microsoft for fucking that up" feeling.

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:33 am

I've said it in the past (link), MS & Sony want everything in HD. If it doesn't meet their graphical standards, it get's rejected. And if you think it'll get a hard copy release on the 360, think again. If it ain't at least 720p, it'll get turned down. These games are probably going to end up on the Wii.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:48 am

gameoverDude wrote:A "faithful" arcade port is better than a *cough* "enhanced" or "remixed" one like PS1 Viewpoint- with a new shitty suite of BGM replacing the arcade's hot soundtrack, and a frame rate that goes straight to the bottom of Hell. BTW, I think the redone graphics for XBLA Double Dragon absolutely blow.

Heh, look at what they did to Contra. They used the original arcade gfx (which blow really badly, btw) and advertised it as enhanced new graphics. One of the rare occurancies when a NES port looks and sound better, or at least more coherent, than the arcade.

Etrian · Post by **Etrian** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:18 am

So long as they don't restrict them from releasing these games as full cost retail games, I'll be happy enough. Sure, this is pretty bad to disallow people the ability to have their games on the XBLA, but at least they're still going to be available and not scrapped entirely.

I remember hearing something about Sony America's method of dealing with 2D games or ports. I think that is worse, because that cuts out the possibility of playing a game entirely, over being able to choose it in XBLA.

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:26 am

To my eyes, the Double Dragon graphics on the XBLA version are just a filter, they haven't been redone at all. With that in mind, it wouldn't be difficult for anyone wanting to release an old arcade game by just slapping a filter over the top of it and say that it's HD. Same seems to be the case with Metal Slug on XBLA. Of course, there's nothing stopping the developers putting in an option to turn off the default 'HD' filter to get the original low-res graphics, as per Castlevania SotN.

As for Sony, someone who works in the industry mentioned on another forum that they have no probelms with SD graphics on their PSN download service. My guess would be that these conversions were done for the 360 because it has the biggest online community, and were originally planned to be XBLA titles. That, and the fact that 360 development is less time-consuming/complex than PS3 development.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:40 am

They should of gave Microsoft the big fuck you finger
after being rejected like that and ported them on the PSN or PS3.

I still shake my head at the decision to port them onto the Xbox360
for Japan release. A huge user base there to market to

Its rewarding Microsoft for their incompetance and ultimate stupidity.

Im still hoping these will eventually get ported to PS3/PSN.

Harlequin

KNTain · Post by **KNTain** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:01 am

I've said it in the past (link), MS & Sony want everything in HD. If it doesn't meet their graphical standards, it get's rejected. And if you think it'll get a hard copy release on the 360, think again. If it ain't at least 720p, it'll get turned down. These games are probably going to end up on the Wii.

Everything needs to be scaled to or running at at least 720p, yes, but that's been a given for these games since the second we heard that they would be released on the 360.

I mean, have you followed this topic at all?

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:05 pm

Its rewarding Microsoft for their incompetance and ultimate stupidity.

...

Anyways- I'm actually kinda glad that they got rejected. I'd rather have them on disc form- at least this way you'll more or less always be able to get ahold of one.

genetik · Post by **genetik** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:12 pm

Battlesmurf wrote: Anyways- I'm actually kinda glad that they got rejected. I'd rather have them on disc form- at least this way you'll more or less always be able to get ahold of one.

I also like retail releases on DVD but the problem with shmups is that they don't often get release over here and most them, if not all, will be region locked. XBLA releases on the flipside don't have any region protection and all come out, mostly, at the same time worldwide.

jpolz · Post by **jpolz** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:14 pm

Zebra Airforce wrote:Spam this guys e-mail with complaints, please.

I sent a message expressing my displeasure for their decision.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:57 pm

bcass wrote:To my eyes, the Double Dragon graphics on the XBLA version are just a filter, they haven't been redone at all.

Nah, it's not just a filter. They touched them up, so that where there'd be pixelation there's now smoothness. They did that without adding in extra bits of detail, though, so what you end up with is a very sharp 720p image that lacks fine detail and looks like a buttery mess.

Buttery, as opposed to blurry.

See also Fatal Fury Special and Metal Slug 3, both of which did much the same thing, but added in the insult of not allowing you to select an 'original' graphics mode.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:58 am

The Double Dragon port has been retouched, but it'll be a cold day in hell before SNK actually redraws sprites for an XBLA release.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:07 am

but it'll be a cold day in hell before SNK actually redraws sprites for an XBLA release.

Or any other release for that matter it seems. Doesn't all their Atomiswave shit reuse low res sprites for a high res display?

Tempest · Post by **Tempest** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:41 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
but it'll be a cold day in hell before SNK actually redraws sprites for an XBLA release.
Or any other release for that matter it seems. Doesn't all their Atomiswave shit reuse low res sprites for a high res display?

Actually they've redrawn and reanimated (I guess that goes without saying) every sprite for KOF XII*. It's about damn time.

*Note- For that movie, you need to watch the whole thing (Or at least the second half) to see vids of KOF XII. The first part is from XI for comparison, and yes, I have had to tell people that before, so I figured I'd save a lazy person some embarrassment.