Is the Wii going to be the new shmup console of choice?

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:47 pm

Just thinking: The Wii has the fastest growing user base in history and it doesn't have any "graphical standards." Does anyone here think that the Wii will be taking over where the PS2 left off? Especially with our shmup releases?

fullblownaidzz · Post by **fullblownaidzz** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:49 pm

I really hope so. I hope ketsui DS is a sign that nintendo will allow more shmups on their platforms.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:56 pm

Could go either way, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say it's likely. With Cave and Treasure buzzing around Nintendo at the moment, the only real problem would be if Ninty get all grumpy and focus too much on 1st party software. Like they always do.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:59 pm

It's a bit early to tell but the potential is certainly there. The minimal controls when holding the controller classic style is perfect for your usual shot and bomb type outings. Let's wait and see how Star Soldier does...

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:36 pm

I added a poll.

And I'm betting that the Wii will become the next home of our shmups. In fact, the way things are looking, the Wii is on the way to becoming the next main stream console thus outright replacing the PS2 in every category.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:54 pm

It's either that or xbox live, so I voted wii.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:54 pm

Asherdude wrote:the Wii is on the way to becoming the next main stream console

I don't pay attention to gaming news, but this seems so ridiculous to me. It'd be neat if a cheap, less hideous console got the bulk of shooter ports. I can't see the system being much better than a Gamecube, though. So far, it isn't.

splitblkribbon · Post by **splitblkribbon** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:19 pm

I think shmups will probably be spread sparingly on all 3 systems, sadly.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:23 pm

Asherdude wrote:I added a poll.

And I'm betting that the Wii will become the next home of our shmups. In fact, the way things are looking, the Wii is on the way to becoming the next main stream console thus outright replacing the PS2 in every category.

That's going a bit too far for two reasons:

1:, Nintendo have a reputation for being very unwelcoming to 3rd party developers, while Sony have seemingly almost had an open-door policy in the past.

2;, Certainly in the west at least, graphics are the biggest draw. Sad but true. While Wii may end up with the best games, it's always going to be 'underpowered' to most. Even more so than the Gamecube compared to the PS2.

Who knows though. All I care about is quality STG ports and origional shooting games, as well as a few other funky games like No More Heroes (

) and Super Mario Galaxy.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:43 pm

I voted no.
It would make too much sense. Something Nintendo and many jpn game devs can't seem to do.

cody · Post by **cody** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:18 pm

Wii doesn't have appropriate video output, so I sure hope it doesn't . . .

tada · Post by **tada** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:23 pm

It's possible.

XBox360 is pretty homogenous, having almost all its games be of Amege genres (FPS, 3D platformer). Not to mention it sells like a lead balloon in Japan.

PS3 is prohibitively expensive for both consumers to buy and for developers to develop on, probably locking out a small company like Cave. I also doubt you would need close to the PS3's hardware specs for a shmup.

So yeah, I think it's possible. Wii is outselling PS3 by about six to one in Japan, so you're looking at six times the potential customers, as well as lower development costs on more than adequate hardware.

eight · Post by **eight** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:28 pm

I think it is possible as Nintendo opened up for 3rd party developers in the last years, I'm just not sure if it will happen.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:09 pm

I think the fact that Nintendo has included some very good ports in their Virtual Console shows that they realize that such a genre does exist. However, to the best of my knowledge Nintendo has made a game for almost every OTHER genre BUT shmups. I'm not counting Star Fox as a shmup here folks. I sincerely hope that people playing the Virtual Console will see the charm in shmups. However you can be sure that if they catch on in the West they will start to get too complex and gimmicky. Think Ikaruga with a long healthbar, 4 different polarities, and 5 types of powerups with only one of those being useful. I want them to catch on through Wii but I don't want the genre tampered with or hybrid. American/Europeans have a way of thinking that adding complexity adds fun. If O3 actually puts forth a game let alone a 2 pack of shmups Radiligy+Karious that would be fine but honestly how can they stay alive with releasing absolute crap in place of a solid shmup?

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:26 pm

Clearly all the new shmups will be going to the DS.

C'mon, let's be realistic. Clearly, the PS2 w/ mod memory card will be the console of this next generation.

cody · Post by **cody** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:14 pm

tada wrote: PS3 is prohibitively expensive for both consumers to buy and for developers to develop on, probably locking out a small company like Cave. Wii is outselling PS3 by about six to one in Japan,

I fail to see how developing a PSN game could possibly be more expensive than developing a Wii game . . . the PSN games so far look to have less than Ps2 level budgets, and there's no worries about product packaging & stock. Sony is actually encouraging new titles, unlike the so-far retro-only wii VC.

As for sales figures, maybe last week was a fluke, but it was more like a 2 to 1 difference between wii and ps3 in japan (39k vs 18k or so).

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:31 pm

I think it's pretty obvious the Wii will be the shoot 'em up system of choice this generation. The Wii is doing ridiculously well in Japan compared to the other two systems, and that's where most of the shoot 'em up developers are, along with most of their popularity.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:48 pm

cody wrote:
tada wrote: PS3 is prohibitively expensive for both consumers to buy and for developers to develop on, probably locking out a small company like Cave. Wii is outselling PS3 by about six to one in Japan,
I fail to see how developing a PSN game could possibly be more expensive than developing a Wii game . . . the PSN games so far look to have less than Ps2 level budgets, and there's no worries about product packaging & stock. Sony is actually encouraging new titles, unlike the so-far retro-only wii VC.

Yeah, XBLA/PSN are far friendlier to low budget devs than Nintendo will ever be.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:03 am

No. The games would be plagued by gimmicks (incline wiimote to scroll faster or slower is so lol.) Furthermore, the Wii is barely more powerful than a GC, so devs like Cave would pull the "can't do a perfect port" fiasco.

sideshow · Post by **sideshow** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:01 am

Its not like the Wii is flooded with new shmups. Shin Chuuka Taisen and Star Soldier are the only ones I can think of. The virtual console games dont count.

The 360 has Senko No Ronde(Although not really a shmup) and a secret game that Treasure is working on.

PS3 is getting soldner-x.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:26 am

I'm hoping we don't see the death of console shmuping this generation, but it's looking like a possibility.

JusteZero · Post by **JusteZero** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:27 am

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:However, to the best of my knowledge Nintendo has made a game for almost every OTHER genre BUT shmups.

http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy.com ... index.html

Also, i voted yes...
I think the Wii may be the 'perfect storm' for a shmup renaissance, all depends if western publishers realize it.

Veracity · Post by **Veracity** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:48 am

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:devs like Cave would pull the "can't do a perfect port" fiasco

[obligatory]That was Arika![/obligatory]

CMoon wrote:Clearly, the PS2 w/ mod memory card will be the console of this next generation.

Can't say I'd personally object. I have no affection for the system, but neither do I particularly want to buy yet another console for the sake of a handful of games. If I did, it'd be a Dreamcast, at the moment, pretty much solely for existing Takumi ports I don't have and won't otherwise be able to play. It does seem the PS2 is well-placed, in principle, to do a Dreamcast, in the sense of limping along all but indefinitely on the occasional niche release, purely by virtue of its outrageously large installed base. Probably just cheapness-motivated wishful thinking, though.

Of the new gen, I suppose the Wii barely scrapes it as most palatable option to buy solely for a few shooters just by being at a fraction of the others' RRP. It's managing to be of no real interest to me, otherwise, especially given its added crappiness in PALopia. In the event of either of the other two actually doing something interesting with its bumped-up hardware capabilities beyond same old shit with added shiny (likelihood admittedly questionable), I'd rather have one of those for that, and consider any shooters it gets a nice bonus.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:52 am

Haha Solar Striker

don't forget Radarscope, the game that almost killed them in the US

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:57 am

I disagree, the whole purpose of XB live and PSN is for games like shmups that cannot warrant huge development costs that are associated with the media/retail chain.

Once the machines get down to reasonable retail prices shmups will likely be saturating the online markets. Even if they are butchered in 16:9 with hi-res graphics.

RyanDG · Post by **RyanDG** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:25 am

sideshow wrote:Its not like the Wii is flooded with new shmups. Shin Chuuka Taisen and Star Soldier are the only ones I can think of. The virtual console games dont count.

The 360 has Senko No Ronde(Although not really a shmup) and a secret game that Treasure is working on.

PS3 is getting soldner-x.

The Wii (and 360) is also getting Shikigami No Shiro III.

And as a side note, the game Treasure was working on for the 360 has had its production "stopped" for the time being.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:04 am

RyanDG wrote: The Wii (and 360) is also getting Shikigami No Shiro III.…

This is news for me!

ubersaurus · Post by **ubersaurus** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:19 am

What's with all the sudden "Nintendo hates 3rd parties" declarations? That may have been true like, 15 years ago, but now it's just been a question of Playstations getting all the sales and thus all the 3rd party development.

But it's simple. If the pS3 can't come back in Japan, the Wii will become the major platform for developers from there. Hence most of the shooters would come out on the machine...as to whether or not they'd come out stateside is another story. It doesn't hurt that wii development is cheaper, reportedly, than PS3 or 360.

That said Live Arcade and PSN could certainly become repositories for shooters, but in terms of physical releases, I'd wager the wii will get the lion's share.

Asherdude · Post by **Asherdude** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:11 am

Rob wrote:
Asherdude wrote:the Wii is on the way to becoming the next main stream console
I don't pay attention to gaming news, but this seems so ridiculous to me. It'd be neat if a cheap, less hideous console got the bulk of shooter ports. I can't see the system being much better than a Gamecube, though. So far, it isn't.

Yeah, I know a lot of people who don't pay attention to either their surroundings or the news - I'm guilty too. That is, until a friend of mine got a job working at Nintendo and NOW I'm showered with news & tibbits.

Anyway, over the past year, the Wii has literally taken over. Here's a couple of pictures that I took with my cell phone. It's of the Nintendo case in my local Walmart.

This is last Sunday. They had just got a shipment of Wii's & Wii games in.

This was one week later.

That was during the first week in September. There was no sale, no upcoming major holiday, no nothing, but they sold out of all their Wii's and they only have 1 copy of Wii Play left. You would expect this kind of demand right after it's launch or during November or December, but not September. I've never seen anything like it.

And the news?

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... story=9343
http://wii.joystiq.com/2007/09/05/ninte ... omplacent/
http://wii.joystiq.com/2007/08/30/uk-ha ... play-with/
http://wii.ign.com/articles/818/818556p1.html

It seems like Nintendo has been given a second chance and they're jumping all over it. If this trend continues, I have no doubt that the Wii will replace the PS2 as the primary system that gets first dibs on all of the new games. It'll be like the return of the NES.

PS: According to the following link, waggle controls apparently isn't a developer requirement.

Shiren won't be taking advantage of the Wiimote for waggle controls. According to Nakamura, Chunsoft experimented with a variety of special control schemes, but determined that standard digital controls work best with the game. He recommends playing with the Classic Controller, although players can also select to play with just the Wiimote, or with both the Wiimote and nunchuck.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/817/817907p1.html

sfried · Post by **sfried** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:17 am

Yes.

It's cheap to develop for. Almost everybody has it. Plus free online. It's the next PS2.

DJ Rectal Prolapse wrote:Could go either way, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say it's likely. With Cave and Treasure buzzing around Nintendo at the moment, the only real problem would be if Ninty get all grumpy and focus too much on 1st party software. Like they always do.

I thought Iwata made a recent announcement about that with regards to becoming "arrogant". I guess he wants to avoid the "President Yamauchi" problem.

Also, wake up, people. This isn't the Nintendo of 20 years ago. This is the new Nintendo.

shmups.system11.org

Is the Wii going to be the new shmup console of choice?

Will the Wii achieve shumpin' greatness?

Is the Wii going to be the new shmup console of choice?