Shmups and puzzle games (e.g. Guitar Hero)

[durias]

Do any of you enjoy Guitar Hero (or any other puzzle games) for the same reasons that you enjoy shmups? Some thoughts...

~ Pattern recognition.
~ The ability to "1cc".
~ Quick reflexes = survival.
~ Memorable music.
~ Guitar Hero, a fundamentally a single-player game, has the option to play with and only one other player at a time (online play notwithstanding).
~ Multiple ways to track progress/success--Points, 100%-ing a song (similar to "1cc"-ing.)

[MX7]

- Guitar Hero, fundamentally a multi-player party game, is like (for example) Gradius V; a game that's only fun to play with two people.

[durias]

Gradius V; a game that's only fun to play with two people.

I'm gonna have to try that. I've never played Gradius V with another person.

[I'm Alec]

guitar hero is a puzzle game?????

[CMoon]

Is there a complex scoring system in Guitar Hero?

[Sonic R]

Is there a complex scoring system in Guitar Hero?

In Guitar Hero (and Rock Band to a less degree) there is score system in building a x4 multiplier and then utilize star power in an area. Using a star power is double multiplier so a x4 becomes an x8 -- chords have more point value so a good place to use star power in a song is when you have x4 and a part in the song where there are most chords.

[Davey]

guitar hero is a puzzle game?????

This is news to me as well. Here I thought it was a rhythm game.

As for the original question, a lot of people here like puzzle games and rhythm games. Personally, I like puzzle games and some rhythm games, although Guitar Hero isn't one of them. I'm not one of those elitist assholes who insists you should learn to play a real guitar instead, though, I just don't see the appeal.

[jpj]

gradius v is shit with two people
almost, but not quite, as shit as ikaruga with two people

[woof]

i play popn music theres a lot of buttons



are there any shmups with like 9 buttons??

[Plasmo]

are there any shmups with like 9 buttons??

Mushihimesama probably...

[indstr]

guitar hero is a puzzle game?????

This is news to me as well. Here I thought it was a rhythm game.

As for the original question, a lot of people here like puzzle games and rhythm games. Personally, I like puzzle games and some rhythm games, although Guitar Hero isn't one of them. I'm not one of those elitist assholes who insists you should learn to play a real guitar instead, though, I just don't see the appeal.

yeah it is definitely NOT a puzzle game.

i AM one of those elitist assholes who says you should learn how to play a real guitar, only because it doesn't make sense to play a freakin plastic guitar... you could spend the same amount of time learning to play a real guitar, and then, do something actually productive/useful and make your own, original music

[shoe-sama]

Do any of you enjoy Guitar Hero

sorry i play real puzzle games like puyo puyo

[FIL]

Why play shmups when you can join the airforce?

[shoe-sama]

no bolletz

[Skyline]

are there any shmups with like 9 buttons??

Daioh has 6.

So I guess that's the closest thing.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

Why play shmups when you can join the airforce?

Because shmups are fun, and joining the airforce is work!

[StoofooEsq]

Besides, much of the Air Force's aircraft have inefficient, stupidly-large hitboxes.

[professor ganson]

Good shmups, good puzzle games, and Guitar Hero all have in common that they offer excellent arcade action. I'm with you, durias.

[durias]

All GREAT observations. Thanks!

[Lynx Winters]

Why play shmups when you can join the airforce?

Because shmups are fun, and joining the airforce is work!

Imagine a shmup, but instead of you being the plane blowing everything up, you're the guy back at base who occasionally has to fix a walkie-talkie that was dropped by the guy who helps sign out a truck for temporary use by the guy who writes an article in the base newspaper about the guy flying the plane blowing up hundreds of enemy planes.

That's pretty much what the Air Force is like. I would not recommend it for the purposes of fun. The scoring system is bullshit.

[BiQ]

gradius v is shit with two people
almost, but not quite, as shit as ikaruga with two people

+1. Unfortunately... when both have upgraded to the max with options, lasers and missiles, screen gets so full of light effects that it really becomes eyesore.

[Regulus]

But the Air Force is like a hundred times better than the crap you have to go through in the other branches.

I also prefer Gradius V by myself. It's fun with two people, but I don't like being neutered option-wise. And none of my friends are very good at it.

[Zebra Airforce]

I'd say that puzzle, rythm and shooters are similar (as mentioned by the Professor) because they all share the cornerstones of arcade action: pick up and play, score influenced, emphasize the mastery of reflex/memory based skills, simple control/interface etc. They also tend to involve identifying patterns and learning to deal with them effectively.

One way they can be different is that while rythm and shmups are largely based on static stages, puzzle games can be very random.

Another similarity could be that rythm games and shmups put a big emphasis on timing and accurate control.
Puyo Puyo, Tetris etc. focus on this to a degree (you'll need to be able to control pieces accurately at the higher speeds) but are more centered on strategy or planning. An exception would be Panel De Pon (<3) where rythm and timing are just as important as, or even more important than planning.

[MX7]

gradius v is shit with two people
almost, but not quite, as shit as ikaruga with two people

+1. Unfortunately... when both have upgraded to the max with options, lasers and missiles, screen gets so full of light effects that it really becomes eyesore.

Balls. Gradius V is a two player game. It's pretty much unplayable in one player mode, due to the game being so long and slow. Ahhhh, but the comradery, the strategy, the banter of playing this game with an equal... find someone with skills comparable to you and you'll never want to put up with 1 player again.

And 2 player Ikaruga can be great, but it's harder finding someone in your skill bracket. If you can though, I have the feeling it may be something special.

[Shatterhand]

I played Pump it for more than 3 songs for the first time yesterday. I actually played like 20 songs, and I had lots of fun with it.

Yeah.

[D]

are there any shmups with like 9 buttons??

Daioh has 6.

So I guess that's the closest thing.

Radiant Silvergun arcade also has a option for 6 buttons, right?

[jpj]

silvergun is a whopping 7 buttons (sat version)
i think it was AST-POW who said he tried playing it on the virtua stick (i have tried this also) and said it was like playing keyboard in a prog-rock band

ikaruga is a drag because the ships don't overlap, so you end up nudging each other; and with the scoring system, you can only play it well if you decide before-hand how to take down each level. don't like people fuckin' up my chain, get me.

i suppose it depends on how much you like to play for score i guess

[Squirrel]

I play guitar hero, can do expert songs, and I have videos on youtube. MightySquirrel ^_^ go check em out

And technically, guitar hero is a rhythm game, not puzzle. Same with beatmania, pop'n music, ddr, guitarro man, etc.

[MR_Soren]

are there any shmups with like 9 buttons??

I don't know, but Einhander use a lot of buttons.


Back on topic, I like shooters, Guitar Hero and puzzle games. I believe all three genres have a lot in common. High scoring. Pick-up-and-playability. Lots of practice. Desire to get good and move on to higher difficulty settings.

They all provide a short burst of fun and addictive gameplay that is highly replayable due to leaving you with large room for improvement.

[Ozymandiaz1260]

GH is fun, but scoring in it isn't really very serious in the way that it is for shmups or other rhythm games. Try playing IIDX or hell man, even DDR. Any game where the timing window isn't as big as barn and it actually tells you how close you are to the beat and grades you accordingly. Much more enjoyable...