Are you brave enough not to move in a shmup?

TKGB_Mental_Gear · Post by **TKGB_Mental_Gear** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:42 pm

Watching some shmup gameplay on the web, I noticed something that I do too. Even though there aren't alot of enemies or none at all, I constantly keep my craft moving. Whenever there are alot of enemies and bullets all about, I swiv all around but even when there are no enemies, I keep my craft swirving left and right, up and down, and all about. Though if I've played a shmup long enough to memorize the patters of the enemies, I will stop if I know I'm not gonna get pounded on (which is the case of Raiden II for me). But if I'm in an area I don't know much about, I'll keep my craft moving to keep from getting an unexpected shot, especially if you are playing a shmup that has the wooble feature.

This also goes for shooting. Stop pounding the button for a minute, your gonna get it, especially when the bullets rush at you. But if I memorized the game, I'll stop to give my fingers (or fist if the button requires hard pressing) a rest.

So do you keep yourself at guard at all times or do you take a rest when there is nothing around?

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:51 pm

If you do play a serious gaming session of Ikaruga without pressing a single shot -- you do earn the ranking of "Dot Eater"... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:07 pm

Well, you could say that moving the ship forces your brain to actively think about what's going on, so you'll stay alert.

As for whether or not that matters once you know a section...probably not. I get nervous during downtime since I feel like my attention is slipping and I'm being pulled out of the game.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:18 pm

I look at it this way, if I can fly through a large chunk of a stage without moving, and yet still get a crapload of points for it, I'll do it. I'm lazy like that.

The first 1/3 of Stage 3 in Ikaruga is like that, as is the first phase of the Final Boss (tuck yourself in a corner, the only things that might try to kill you are the Homing Bullets, spirals miss you completely.)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:41 pm

I thought this was going to be about Hyper Duel.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:57 pm

I got better at shmups when I learned to be more efficient in my movement.

koda · Post by **koda** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:09 am

I usually try to stay moving during the downtimes.

Chaos Field's in my Wii right now-- that one's pretty impossible to sit still in.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:34 am

Hmm I don't think there is any more merit in not moving. Really efficency doesn't matter as long as the results are the same. Unless you are worried about using up precious food calories.

mainpatr1 · Post by **mainpatr1** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:53 am

Cave Shmups+not moving=instant death

Hibou · Post by **Hibou** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:54 am

I tend to always move and shoot as few as possible.

I always have the impression that, if move or shoot for nothing, it's because I still don't master the game enough. Probably because I mostly play old-school shmups, and because I usually play them for 1-lifing (at least in dreams) whithout taking big care of the score (I got really interested in scoring only a few months ago, mostly after having discovered these boards

). So I tend to just rely on memorization and anticipated small moves.

Blade wrote:I look at it this way, if I can fly through a large chunk of a stage without moving, and yet still get a crapload of points for it, I'll do it.

I do that a lot. The most abused game I know for this is Saint Dragon: with a proper placement at the entrance of stage 2 (and constant shooting, though), you can travel the whole stage AND time-out the boss without moving a second time at all ! I also think that I could travel stage 3 with 4 or 5 moves in total... So perhaps not the best designed game in shmup's history.

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:09 am

Blade wrote:I look at it this way, if I can fly through a large chunk of a stage without moving, and yet still get a crapload of points for it, I'll do it. I'm lazy like that.

The first 1/3 of Stage 3 in Ikaruga is like that, as is the first phase of the Final Boss (tuck yourself in a corner, the only things that might try to kill you are the Homing Bullets, spirals miss you completely.)

There is very, VERY little in stage 3 of Ikaruga that you can sit still in. In 3-1, dart ships come down from the sides and aim right at your ship. There's walls blocking off the big laser tanks so that you NEED to move around the walls and the beams of the tanks. Staying still in virtually ANY part of stage 3 will kill you.

Stage 1, however, you can stay mostly still until the middle of 1-2 when the first shots are fired

And of course you're right about the Stone-Like at the very end of the game. Stay at the bottom right corner and the first pattern will miss you completely, except the homing shots.

MathU · Post by **MathU** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:44 am

koda wrote:I usually try to stay moving during the downtimes.

Chaos Field's in my Wii right now-- that one's pretty impossible to sit still in.

Same here! And actually, the best way to dodge one of 4.1's attacks is to sit in one spot at the bottom of the screen.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:26 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:I got better at shmups when I learned to be more efficient in my movement.

Raiden III solved that problem for me.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:59 pm

Why yes, I do enjoy the occasional Zun game =)

I mean, Imperishable Night once punished me for "boredom movement." I started wiggling around the screen waiting for a boss to switch spellcards, and my roommate (who is more familiar with IN) asked "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!" I was like "Huh? What do you mean?" And then there was stuff scattered all over the screen in a very VERY messy fashion. Apparently a pattern with lots of delayed aimed shots, and I was basically making the boss cover the screen in undodgable fire. And my roommate wonders why I'm not a fan of the Zun games anymore.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:34 pm

Karous.

TKGB_Mental_Gear · Post by **TKGB_Mental_Gear** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:21 pm

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:Hmm I don't think there is any more merit in not moving. Really efficency doesn't matter as long as the results are the same. Unless you are worried about using up precious food calories.

What the heck are you talking about?

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:52 pm

moving around = x64 multiplier to survival ability in psikyo games

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:04 pm

TKGB_Mental_Gear wrote: What the heck are you talking about?

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:14 pm

Strikers II, got to 1-8 after like 30 minutes of play by keeping ship moving max speed

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:11 pm

Amazing. That's 40 hours less than I would've expected.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:40 pm

Having a good amount of bombs and low rank after deaths so I could properly abuse them helped a lot. =)

But yeah, since lots of things tend to be aimed bullets, moving around can deal with most of them. The shot coverage can also be essential in certain shmups.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:51 pm

Don't bomb the awesome fun boss patterns you wimp.

I think Strikers II is my favorite Psikyo game today. Or Dragon Blaze.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:42 am

I don't move when nothing's happening in a shooter.

But I do play a lot of R-Type.

-Bridget- · Post by **-Bridget-** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:48 am

shoe-sama wrote:moving around = x64 multiplier to survival ability in psikyo games

Unless you move INTO a bullet, as I often do with Psikyo's stuff

When it comes to the main topic, though, if I've played a game enough to have an idea as to a set of oncoming foes, I'll move to the proper spot and wait for them to show up; otherwise I just sit still (somewhere near the center of the screen) and wait for something to shoot at, or something that shoots at me.

Seems though, alot of shmups I play (aside from Giga Wing, which will do it in certain small sections) dont really have the "dead" zones like that; I play mostly Cave's and Psikyo's stuff, and both of them just keep firing crap at me all the time.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:49 am

Yeah, that's why they're my two favorites as well. Too much dead-space is why I got bored with Under Defeat.

Someone mentioned not moving to dodge a lot of Psikyo stuff, and it reminded me of the first time I ever played Gunbird 2. I was even more noobish to shmups than I am now, if anyone can believe that. So many patterns tricked me into dodging when I shouldn't. It was funny going back to GB2 with some 1cc's under my belt. I was thinking "how could I not tell that would just whiff at me? Did I really used to panic that easily? Gods."

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:19 am

With efficiency in movement I mean "really concentrate on when you go where and why", not just zipping around carelessly. Same goes for how to dodge patterns: Is horizontal/vertical movement enough, or do you need diagonals?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3yWyLSOWo
Check out how Icarus moves in this Batrider replay. It almost looks like a machine is playing it - he has the movement nailed, he just knows when to go where and is minimizing unnecessary movement. The results look very elegant and pleasing to watch. Maybe we´re talking about different things in this thread, but that was my point