New hope for a PS2 Ketsui port?

[Twiddle]

I am a console gamer at heart.

Man, oh man.

So if I gave you a no-name controller and a screen, and the actual hardware was hidden inside a box, so you couldn't tell if it was a console system, a computer, or an arcade system powering the game, what would you do? Would you, like, short-circuit or something and stare at the screen blankly?

So if I gave you a no-name cab and a screen, and the actual hardware was hidden inside the cab, so you wouldn't tell if it was an arcade system, a computer, or a console system powering the game, what would you do? Would you, like, short-circuit or something and stare at the screen blankly?

[segasonicfan]

meh, porting stuff hurts the arcade industry a lot. I'm sure operators are pissed off enough to see their $2k original purchase go down to the $600 mark after a couple years. but to drop to the $250 mark and then having nobody coming to play it has gotta really sting.

I'm really glad cave hasn't been doing ports because

a) ports pale incomparison to the real PCB
b) ports devalue the PCB and hurt the arcade industry (which has been hurting already for a long time.
c) ports add another way for scores to be achieved on non-original hardware.
d) ports can be easily bootlegged to further hurt Cave and the industry as a whole.


Pros?
a) gets the Cave name out there and their titles noticed more
b) a safer way to play the games you love (if you don't mind an inferior version).
c) cheaper for those that don't want to invest in PCBs.

Thing is though, for those of us that have invested in Ketsui and other PCBs, we did so hoping the title(s) would maintain a similar market value. With Cave they almost always do, except in the case of ports being released :/

pros just don't outweigh the cons IMO. Just my take on things.

-Segasonicfan

[Twiddle]

meh, porting stuff hurts the arcade industry a lot. I'm sure operators are pissed off enough to see their $2k original purchase go down to the $600 mark after a couple years.

The $2k new game purchase will make more of a profit than the $600 purchase 2 years down the road.

[Dandy J]

can someone rename thread to "mihara answers generic question about ketsui port"

[Dave_K.]

Actually Arika ports are better than the PCB, and thats what really hurts the value of them. Mushihemesama is an example of a PCB that did NOT devalue after the port, because the Cave/Taito port DID pale in comparison.

In summary if Arika ports Ketsui, you know its going to be pixel perfect, so it will hurt the value of the PCB. I do wonder what DDP and Espgaluda PCBs would be worth if they were never ported (and still not emulated).

[EOJ]

I'm sure operators are pissed off enough to see their $2k original purchase go down to the $600 mark after a couple years. but to drop to the $250 mark and then having nobody coming to play it has gotta really sting.

That's not true. Ports have little to no effect on the arcade operators, the only negative effect they possibly have is on COLLECTORS like yourself (and that's the real reason why you're against it, you don't want to lose money on your "investments"). People still go to the arcades and play Espgaluda, DDP:DOJ, and Mushi in Japan. When I was there last year I saw people playing those games a LOT. After all, any competitive scorer in Japan will only play on the PCB, they don't submit scores from console ports.

a) ports pale incomparison to the real PCB
b) ports devalue the PCB and hurt the arcade industry (which has been hurting already for a long time.
c) ports add another way for scores to be achieved on non-original hardware.
d) ports can be easily bootlegged to further hurt Cave and the industry as a whole.

a) is usually true; b) the first part is true, the second is not; c) is true, and d) the first part is true, the rest is not true.

[Twiddle]

twe^h^h^heoj

[Never_Scurred]

meh, porting stuff hurts the arcade industry a lot. I'm sure operators are pissed off enough to see their $2k original purchase go down to the $600 mark after a couple years. but to drop to the $250 mark and then having nobody coming to play it has gotta really sting.

I'm really glad cave hasn't been doing ports because

a) ports pale incomparison to the real PCB
b) ports devalue the PCB and hurt the arcade industry (which has been hurting already for a long time.
c) ports add another way for scores to be achieved on non-original hardware.
d) ports can be easily bootlegged to further hurt Cave and the industry as a whole.


Pros?
a) gets the Cave name out there and their titles noticed more
b) a safer way to play the games you love (if you don't mind an inferior version).
c) cheaper for those that don't want to invest in PCBs.

Thing is though, for those of us that have invested in Ketsui and other PCBs, we did so hoping the title(s) would maintain a similar market value. With Cave they almost always do, except in the case of ports being released :/

pros just don't outweigh the cons IMO. Just my take on things.

-Segasonicfan

No offense, but as someone who sells custom made superguns on the side, isn't your opinion a bit biased? I mean, ports=no need for $300 guns, right? And its not like Cave makes any revenue off of the used market, who are pretty much the type of people who would be interested in a supergun in the first place.

[RyanDG]

That's not true. Ports have little to no effect on the arcade operators, the only negative effect they possibly have is on COLLECTORS like yourself (and that's the real reason why you're against it, you don't want to lose money on your "investments"). People still go to the arcades and play Espgaluda, DDP:DOJ, and Mushi in Japan. When I was there last year I saw people playing those games a LOT.

Yep. There's a misconception that ports of arcade games hurt the arcade operators. I haven't ever seen any solid data or evidence showing a correlation between a console port affecting negatively an arcade games revenue. Furthermore, sometimes the inverse can be true. A home port of a game can actually increase interest in an arcade game. The Xbox 360/PS3 ports of Virtual Fighter 5 for example has spurred enough interest in the game that Sega is actually releasing the game stateside through its distributers for the arcades.

I would love to see someone do an actual study and dig up some numbers on this. If I had the time to wade through a bunch of corporate BS I would do it, but since I don't, I can't really look into it.

Secondly, we have to also consider what games we are talking about porting here. The Cave game ports, while being solid sellers for Arika and Taito, have never really lit the sales charts on fire. Whatever loss of revenue caused by the port to the arcade game is going to be inconsequential compared to the simple devaluation due to time.

Those are just my two cents though.

[Rob]

segasonicfan posting stuff again.

[Twiddle]

Guys, I sold my Cotton 2 and Cotton Boomerang STV carts because they weren't full kits.

[splitblkribbon]

Isn't Ketsui coming to the DS?? I keep hearing that.

[pixelcorps]

b) ports devalue the PCB and hurt the arcade industry (which has been hurting already for a long time.

absolute crap - the operators make their money back on the use of the board, the value of the PCB means nothing to arcade owners - just collectors, like yourself - it seems some people think arcade ops are some kind of charity...

if ports were "harmful to the industry" , why did cave ever do them???

[undamned]

Thing is though, for those of us that have invested in Ketsui and other PCBs, we did so hoping the title(s) would maintain a similar market value.

Well, yeah, I don't want to lose money by my PCB's devaluing, but I don't buy PCB's as an investment, for certain. If value goes up, then woohoo, but I buy PCB's to play games on the real hardware, not as an investment. If you want to invest in something, videogames are about as valid an option as baseball cards or comic books (i.e. pretty random pay offs). Get a savings account or if your job offers 401k, do that or something, but not videogames

Isn't Ketsui coming to the DS?? I keep hearing that.

Yeah, I heard that too...
-ud

[icycalm]

I'm sure operators are pissed off enough to see their $2k original purchase go down to the $600 mark after a couple years. but to drop to the $250 mark and then having nobody coming to play it has gotta really sting.

That's not true. Ports have little to no effect on the arcade operators, the only negative effect they possibly have is on COLLECTORS like yourself (and that's the real reason why you're against it, you don't want to lose money on your "investments"). People still go to the arcades and play Espgaluda, DDP:DOJ, and Mushi in Japan. When I was there last year I saw people playing those games a LOT. After all, any competitive scorer in Japan will only play on the PCB, they don't submit scores from console ports.

You are missing the forest for the trees.

I spent three years going to arcades every day. The only times I played ported/emulated arcade games in a game center was when the unported/unemulated stuff was being played by other people, or once a month when I was in a funny mood for whatever reason.

Just give 500 credits to anyone in this forum who has never been to Japan and let them loose in a Japanese game center. What do you think they will play? Dodonpachi and Ibara?

So.

-Porting games within a period of roughly two years of their arcade release hurts the bottom line of arcade operators.

-Porting after that period actually helps them in several ways. For one thing, operators hardly lose anything, because all those who were prepared to go down to an arcade to play these games have already done so. After the two years therefore a port can be a way for a company to make some quick extra cash (if they had been smart in the first place, and developed their games for an easy-to-port platform like the Naomi, for example), and to make their games known to a wider audience, who might therefore become aware of the companys work and decide that, when it releases its next game, they will go down to the arcade to check it out, instead of waiting two years for the port.

If the 2-year "no-ports" period was observed by all companies (Sega/SNK, etc.) the arcades would be doing much better than they are doing right now (and from what I can tell they are not doing half-bad, all things considered).

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Thing is though, for those of us that have invested in Ketsui and other PCBs, we did so hoping the title(s) would maintain a similar market value.

Well, yeah, I don't want to lose money by my PCB's devaluing, but I don't buy PCB's as an investment, for certain. If value goes up, then woohoo, but I buy PCB's to play games on the real hardware, not as an investment. If you want to invest in something, videogames are about as valid an option as baseball cards or comic books (i.e. pretty random pay offs). Get a savings account or if your job offers 401k, do that or something, but not videogames

Isn't Ketsui coming to the DS?? I keep hearing that.

Yeah, I heard that too...
-ud

Can't pass up 401k option if given the opportunity to contribute to it -- your retirement depends on it as Social Security may not be around for much longer -- thanks to the older generation using it up faster than was originally planned when it was implemented back in the day.

If and when Ketsui finally comes out for the DS...so be it. ^_~

[Rob]

Just give 500 credits to anyone in this forum who has never been to Japan and let them loose in a Japanese game center. What do you think they will play? Dodonpachi and Ibara?

So.

And that covers western players in Japanese arcades. People who have never been a few thousand dollars away from playing new arcade releases having a different reaction: big shock.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Just give 500 credits to anyone in this forum who has never been to Japan and let them loose in a Japanese game center. What do you think they will play? Dodonpachi and Ibara?

So.

And that covers western players in Japanese arcades. People who have never been a few thousand dollars away from playing new arcade releases having a different reaction: big shock.

I remember the very first time playing the newest arcade shmup of Psyvariar Medium Unit -- it was a jaw-dropping experience I would never forget for the rest of my life...I was stoked big time. To try out Psy-MU at a Japanese game center for 100 yen back in late March of 2000 was priceless -- even the Taito Egret cabinet that housed that newest shmup title had a "New Game" sign placed on top so I knew it was gonna be something special..... ^_~

[Sonic R]

I'm sure operators are pissed off enough to see their $2k original purchase go down to the $600 mark after a couple years. but to drop to the $250 mark and then having nobody coming to play it has gotta really sting.

That's not true. Ports have little to no effect on the arcade operators, the only negative effect they possibly have is on COLLECTORS like yourself (and that's the real reason why you're against it, you don't want to lose money on your "investments"). People still go to the arcades and play Espgaluda, DDP:DOJ, and Mushi in Japan. When I was there last year I saw people playing those games a LOT. After all, any competitive scorer in Japan will only play on the PCB, they don't submit scores from console ports.

You are missing the forest for the trees.

I spent three years going to arcades every day. The only times I played ported/emulated arcade games in a game center was when the unported/unemulated stuff was being played by other people, or once a month when I was in a funny mood for whatever reason.

Just give 500 credits to anyone in this forum who has never been to Japan and let them loose in a Japanese game center. What do you think they will play? Dodonpachi and Ibara?

So.

-Porting games within a period of roughly two years of their arcade release hurts the bottom line of arcade operators.

-Porting after that period actually helps them in several ways. For one thing, operators hardly lose anything, because all those who were prepared to go down to an arcade to play these games have already done so. After the two years therefore a port can be a way for a company to make some quick extra cash (if they had been smart in the first place, and developed their games for an easy-to-port platform like the Naomi, for example), and to make their games known to a wider audience, who might therefore become aware of the companys work and decide that, when it releases its next game, they will go down to the arcade to check it out, instead of waiting two years for the port.

If the 2-year "no-ports" period was observed by all companies (Sega/SNK, etc.) the arcades would be doing much better than they are doing right now (and from what I can tell they are not doing half-bad, all things considered).

Hmm…
I can agree with both icycalm and TWEOJ in these quote boxes.

It can be a winning situation for everyone with this 2 year grace period and the only people purely against ports, especial Ketsui, are the collectors who paid the price. When video games become more than entertainment for the enjoyment of playing and become an investment beyond that of operating an arcade business, thats no good.

[Rob]

I remember the very first time playing the newest arcade shmup of Psyvariar Medium Unit -- it was a jaw-dropping experience I would never forget for the rest of my life...I was stoked big time. To try out Psy-MU at a Japanese game center for 100 yen back in late March of 2000 was priceless -- even the Taito Egret cabinet that housed that newest shmup title had a "New Game" sign placed on top so I knew it was gonna be something special..... ^_~

I wish I could've been at the arcade when the first person counterstopped Mars Matrix and then laughed at the screen before walking away disgusted. Psyvariar is pretty cool.

[Strider77]

such hatred in this tread....

[Never_Scurred]

To pretty much sum it up......


"Oh please, no ports. I'm tryna retire on deez pcbs!"

[Zebra Airforce]

such hatred in this tread....

I think Ketsui is like a sore nipple for many members. It just keeps rubbing against the inside of your shirt until it finally starts to bleed before scabbing up again.

[GaijinPunch]

videogames are about as valid an option as baseball cards or comic books

I don't follow comic books or baseball cards, but from what I know it's nothing like games. Games cost $60 a piece and 99.9% of the time immediately go down in value (often to 1/10th of their retail value) while comics cost a couple of bucks and quite often go up.

The only times I played ported/emulated arcade games in a game center was when the unported/unemulated stuff was being played by other people,

You're both wrong, really. Time is what kills most arcade games, not ports. There's a Ketsui in my local 50 yen arcade. Guess how many people play it when I'm in there. ZERO. Way more people play DOJ at this particular arcade.

[Twiddle]

I don't follow comic books or baseball cards, but from what I know it's nothing like games. Games cost $60 a piece and 99.9% of the time immediately go down in value (often to 1/10th of their retail value) while comics cost a couple of bucks and quite often go up.

This copy of Superman #1 has a very slight crease in page 3.

99% condition = 50% value

[fullblownaidzz]

I don't follow comic books or baseball cards, but from what I know it's nothing like games. Games cost $60 a piece and 99.9% of the time immediately go down in value (often to 1/10th of their retail value) while comics cost a couple of bucks and quite often go up.

This copy of Superman #1 has a very slight crease in page 3.

99% condition = 50% value

The point still remains that the copy of superman #1 cost a dollar when it came out. It's clearly worth more now.

[szycag]

I don't follow comic books or baseball cards, but from what I know it's nothing like games. Games cost $60 a piece and 99.9% of the time immediately go down in value (often to 1/10th of their retail value) while comics cost a couple of bucks and quite often go up.

This copy of Superman #1 has a very slight crease in page 3.

99% condition = 50% value

The point still remains that the copy of superman #1 cost a dollar when it came out. It's clearly worth more now.

you have to be in STGT 07 to get the joke he made. and I lol'd

[Ed Oscuro]

I've seen tons of comics that are still only worth their cover price, and this two decades or so after printing. Those have actually lost money due to inflation.

The lower condition = 50% value (compared to other examples) does hold true in comics, coins, stamps etc. though. It's not just VP1!!!1

[Ed Oscuro]

you have to be in STGT 07

I'm not.

[Twiddle]

or IRC