Shmup Evangelism

[ROBOTRON]

I really don't think that anyone on this forum would seriously want shmups to become mainstream, would you?

If not mainstream...perhaps something inbetween?

I hate this "practically dead" scene where theres just a handful of us playing and maybe 1 or 2 shmups released a year...(and only on DC at that)!

[Shatterhand]

I must admit I get a little scared with the big shmup companies dying. Except by Cave ,is there any other high-profile shmup company around? Sometimes I feel all of our hopes are in Cave, and if Cave makes one failure, the are out of business, and we are screwed

At least we can still count that Konami may release one shmup from time to time... and maybe Treasure

Other than that, it's all low-profile companies that, AFAIK, could die at any moment. Milestone, Skonec, Moss, Triangle Service, G-Rev.....

If I had sure those companies wouldn't suddenly disapear (Compile, Raizing, Psikyo...), I wouldn't mind the current state of shmups, which IMO is pretty good.

[Mortificator]

When has a genre been hurt by becomming mainstream? It seems like that just results in more games, both good and bad. Final Fantasy VII made RPGs mainstream in the West, and since then there've been good creative games (Xenogears, Knights of the Old Republic) right alongside forgetable cash-ins (Unlimited Saga). Were RPGs universally better back in the Ultima and Drakkhen days?

[louisg]

When has a genre been hurt by becomming mainstream? It seems like that just results in more games, both good and bad. Final Fantasy VII made RPGs mainstream in the West, and since then there've been good creative games (Xenogears, Knights of the Old Republic) right alongside forgetable cash-ins (Unlimited Saga). Were RPGs universally better back in the Ultima and Drakkhen days?

I'd argue that a lower budget in general is better for game designs. Big budget productions seem to take fewer risks, and a weak game design can be compensated for by all sorts of other distractions. I don't know about RPGs (other than a vague feeling that Ultima had more in the substance department than a Square RPG). But, I would say that shmups have improved a lot since falling out of favor. One thing I love about the genre right now is the focus on game mechanics and balance (in contrast to something like, say, Silpheed).

Another way to look at it is this: maybe the gamers who just wanted to watch things blow up have moved onto more modern and more cinematic genres.

[Shatterhand]

(other than a vague feeling that Ultima had more in the substance department than a Square RPG).

I don't have a vague feeling. I am completely sure about this.

Another way to look at it is this: maybe the gamers who just wanted to watch things blow up have moved onto more modern and more cinematic genres.

It does make sense.

[tassian]

I second all of the above.

[Mortificator]

(other than a vague feeling that Ultima had more in the substance department than a Square RPG).

I don't have a vague feeling. I am completely sure about this.

Pffft! You're just saying that to sound hardcore. I like Ultima a lot (especially False Prophet), but the series recycled a ton of stuff from game to game, one of the big downsides of a limited budget. There's overall much more creativity and imagination in Square Enix's stable. Terranigma and Final Fantasy Tactics have as much substance as you'll find in video games.

And don't forget to take Drakkhen into account. It's a fine example of a shitty low-budget RPG from before they became mainstream. Ultima was the exception, not the rule.

I'd argue that a lower budget in general is better for game designs. Big budget productions seem to take fewer risks, and a weak game design can be compensated for by all sorts of other distractions.

Taking risks is a plus, but it's one of the only ones. If the game's team is made up of skilled people with good ideas, giving them more resources and time can only help.

[Icarus]

Pffft! You're just saying that to sound hardcore. I like Ultima a lot (especially False Prophet), but the series recycled a ton of stuff from game to game, one of the big downsides of a limited budget. There's overall much more creativity and imagination in Square Enix's stable. Terranigma and Final Fantasy Tactics have as much substance as you'll find in video games.

Really? Squeenix is just as guilty of recycling stuff as anyone else is. If anything, they haven't made anything truly original since Vagrant Story and the other RPGs from that gen. (Even Vagrant Story was a small rehash of Parasite Eve's system, to be honest.) The only difference is that Squeenix knows how to milk money out of their loyal suckers. Just take a look at the tons of Squaretards chomping at the bit every time a new FF, SaGa or Mana is announced, regardless of whether or not it has anything really innovative or redeeming.

Tell me when Squeenix pull their fingers out of their arses and make a new RPG that's truly innovative, instead of rereleasing older games with jumped-up graphics and added minigames. We'll probably be playing on the next-next-next-gen by then, however.

Taking risks is a plus, but it's one of the only ones. If the game's team is made up of skilled people with good ideas, giving them more resources and time can only help.

True, resources and time do help, but as we've seen, there is little money to be made in the shooting game genre. Every company with money and time would rather invest it in making something cinematic, or realistic, and not something that is a throwback to the retro era. Until the big softdevs are convinced that there is money to be made making shooting games across the world, we'll continue to see this genre remain in the outer fringes.

Only Cave have managed to get the perfect shooting game manufacturer business model right, and out of all the shooting game devs, only they have the history (ex-Toaplan), the money (hordes of rabid fans across the world, and arcades in Japan, ready to splash on the new PCBs and merch) and the time (two main directors making a game each per year).

At least we have doujin if commercial goes tits up.

[Twiddle]

things aren't going so well for the fps genre either, since for every stalker there's five boring war-themed games

[Krimzon Kitzune]

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