Parsec47

[Davey]

Man you're really kicking my ass in the points per level department. I seem to always average 2M per 10 levels, and my style is probably too hard-wired at this point to change (just got level 92, 18M points ).

It's a shame Kenta Cho didn't build in replay functionality into this one. Well, at least for people not in first place.

[shiftace]

Y'know, for the longest time I would average about 2M per 10 stages too. Eventually I noticed that in the rare stages with no small enemies, if the medium & large enemies were slow enough to fire, I could point-blank all of them and get an assload of points, while they wouldn't shoot at all. From this, or maybe from the realization that there can only be 128 point items on sceren, I decided it was worth making an effort to play more recklessly: kill everything real fast, bounce around the top of the screen to stop the game from killing excess point items. It took a week or two of real frustrating runs before I got better. So anyway, maybe I used to play like you're playing now, and after enough dozens of hours I tried to do better, and it worked. Better efficiency, at least.
[/motivational]

Oh, since I'm here:

Roll/Extreme - shiftace - 24 496 550 - 100



See the left front wing? I went diving after the point items too fast and died on an easy pattern. It was just a little faster than I imagined. Tragic. Well, any Game Over above stage 90 is tragic.

[Davey]

I managed to get 18.9M at level 84 (3,000 short of an extend ), which is 2.25M per 10 levels. The only change I made was charging up before I felt a medium or large enemy coming. Usually I avoided using the charge until I needed it... I think maybe I was too paranoid about getting point items (i.e., getting them before they even hit the bottom of the screen) and felt that speed was more important.

Now that I'm bouncing back, I strangely no longer find this game completely unfair and have resorted back to unconditionally praising its awesomeness.

[BUHA]

Roll - Practice - 14,319,090 - Parsec 112

Practice is pretty fun because your ship doesn't move so fast and you can weave in and out of the bullet spreads. You can't really do so much of that on Extreme

[Anarchos]

Shiftace, could you possibly create a replay for us to view? I am very much interested in your tactics since you obviously play the game one step more advanced than the rest of us. I too came across the idea if perhaps the best players don't take advantage of the fact that shots don't harm the player the first miliseconds--something you seem to do indeed--but never been able to put it to action. Wasn't thinking points-wise though, which also seems to have its advantages.

[shoe-sama]

Lock - Extreme
12,091,740 - shoe-sama - 69 - keyboard

omg I'm so nub lol

[Anarchos]

I've been playing normal for quite some time, and now that I go to extreme it strikes me how much slowdown there is to it, which I don't remember from the last time I played it. I get slowdown already at stage 5 on extreme, the first midboss. Don't want to play something when it's easier for me than everybody else, and I've tried playing it without the windowmode but there too slowdown comes already at stage 5. I have 1026ddr memory and 3,0ghz iirc...

[shoe-sama]

These options are available:
-brightness n Set the brightness of the screen.(n = 0 - 100, default = 100)
-luminous n Set the luminous intensity.(n = 0 - 100, default = 0)
-lowres Use the low resolution mode.
-nosound Stop the sound.
-window Launch the game in the window, not use the full-screen.
-reverse Reverse the shot key and the slow key.
-slowship Use the slow speed ship in all game modes.
-nowait Disable the intentional slowdown.

uh lol

Most of the time the slowdown is for certain boss patterns that omfg spam the screen and stuff.

[shiftace]

I too came across the idea if perhaps the best players don't take advantage of the fact that shots don't harm the player the first miliseconds--something you seem to do indeed--but never been able to put it to action.

Actually, I don't try to exploit that; it's too brief and unreliable. Rather, it's mostly about reading bullet patterns and enemy formations. Formations, in particular, are surprisingly predictable -- there are just two or three basic formation types for each enemy size (with some random parameters), and new enemy types & formations are introduced whenever the stage counter increases (with a small chance to recycle a previous enemy type). This relates to what Davey posted a while ago about holding a roll shot and waiting.

Anyway, by predicting the locations of incoming enemies, you can destroy them faster, which keeps you safer (dead enemies don't shoot*) and can get you more points. Pattern reading is harder to explain but more intuitive; there are a few dozen basic patterns that get combined by a simple substitution operation, and after a while you can begin to recognize them all and "understand" 95% of whatever the game creates.

The slowdown is deliberate and relates to the number of bullets on screen. There's some other business with a parameter called speedRank that appears to let different bullet types contribute differently to the slowdown, but I don't see quite how it works.

I might be able to post a video later in the month. I've had a couple of nice R/X runs lately; just need to find a good computer (probably ok), figure out video capture (VLC or virtualdub, I guess) and get lucky.



* (There are a couple of pattern types that keep firing for up to a full second after the source enemy dies; there's probably an invisible seed bullet involved, that gets fired before the enemy dies. It's counterintuitive, but after a while you can recognize the pattern components responsible, and at least you won't be caught off guard.)

[Makoto_Shinobi]

Roll - Practice - 16,948,780 - 125 - Macintosh Keyboard
Lock - Practice - 14,435,490 - 130 - Macintosh Keyboard

I've played this game quite a lot when I wanted to get involve to this type of shooters. Haven't really been to hi-scores forum that much, since I have no time to come here that often. But the good thing is that I've managed to improve over my old scores.

[Davey]

Hey shiftace, have you figured out all this stuff just from playing the game, or have you dug into the source code?

[shiftace]

I went digging in the source last November to get the exact bonus formula, noticed a few other things along the way. It confirmed a few hunches and theories, yes.

[Pirate1019]

Pirate1019 - Lock - Practice - 10,379,430 - 107 - Logitech USB Controller

I was at parsec 74 and a windows alert popped up and blocked half the screen. I was dodging all of the bullets and not shooting back because my right hand was trying to hit keys to exit the window. I died once, but I recovered alright.

I got so jittery that I had to pause the game after parsec 70 for about minute. My left hand was having trouble functioning properly. I was getting tremors.

I love this game.

EDIT: Added the control method.

[shiftace]

And some days, the game just wants to be thrashed.

Roll/Extreme - shiftace - 31 227 360 - 120 - keyboard

Kicking myself now for not having bothered with video capture yet. S'pose I should get on it before I start losing credibility...

[shoe-sama]

woah congrats

btw someone should make a new thread

[Pirate1019]

Kicking myself now for not having bothered with video capture yet. S'pose I should get on it before I start losing credibility...

I don't think that somebody already on the top should be suspected of bad sportsmanship.

Why do we need a new thread? Becasue Piyo isn't updating it often enough? I'll shoot him a PM. I'll ask if he would let me to take over. If he wants to keep running it then I won't stop him. He seems to have it down pretty nicely.

EDIT: I'll also make a new one if he doesn't answer in about week.

[Davey]

Roll/Extreme - shiftace - 31 227 360 - 120 - keyboard

Why don't you kick me in the balls while you're at it? This is just getting silly.

Kicking myself now for not having bothered with video capture yet. S'pose I should get on it before I start losing credibility...

Unfortunately, I believe it. I also believe a moderate amount of luck was involved, but I believe it.

Let me know what you find as far as video capture goes. I couldn't get the free ones to work (I don't even remember their names).

It would be nice if I managed to clear Accel mode in Blue Wish Resurrection (I can get to the last boss now, unless there's a true last boss in Accel mode) and/or reclaim my #1 slot in Parsec47. I'm thinking clearing BWR is the much more attainable goal.

Am I right on track or what?

In any case, good job. Your next goal should be to get a higher score than everybody else on the board combined.

[Pirate1019]

In any case, good job. Your next goal should be to get a higher score than everybody else on the board combined.

Just you wait. It'll happen eventually and I'll cry.

[shoe-sama]

Kicking myself now for not having bothered with video capture yet. S'pose I should get on it before I start losing credibility...

Unfortunately, I believe it. I also believe a moderate amount of luck was involved, but I believe it.

Let me know what you find as far as video capture goes. I couldn't get the free ones to work (I don't even remember their names).

lol have my 12M run recorded using hypercam

My sound card sucks and doesn't want to work with any capture program though.

[Pirate1019]

I got a PM back from piyo saying he'll update the boards. If he ends up not updating it, then I'll make a new thread. I already have it written out and saved in a notepad file. It's (I hope) completely up to date. The only things it doesn't have are the dates the scores were achieved (which can be added, if enough people care), the "last 6 months" charts and the colorful look.

[piyo]

whoa, so sorry! I have updated the scores now, thanks to the friendly reminder from Pirate1019.

We have 10 new scores since 2007/1/12. Newcomer Makoto_Shinobi is telling us how it is from a Macintosh Keyboard, and veterans BUHA, Davey , Pirate1019, shiftace, and shoe-sama, coming back for more. shiftace is unbelievable good. I too wish for a replay function.

BUHA, we need you to explain how your exercise bike setup for this shmup. That and how you hold DS while pedalling.

Good luck to all!
---
piyo

[Makoto_Shinobi]

Thanks for the update, Piyo! I know that I'm quite an unknown player I was, since not many users know me that much. At least I'm really new to high score threads. It looks like I'm quite a good looking player very well after playing any shooters for months and even years.

I'll update my score when I have time.

[Makoto_Shinobi]

New score:

Roll - Practice - 21,563,200 - 160

Roll - Normal - 15,105,860 - 90

It took a lot of luck for me to aim for the highest score on practice. I haven't improved anything on normal that much though, but I'll get a really nice score soon.

Edit: More new scores:

Lock - Practice - 17,609,870 - 159

Lock - Normal - 14,300,900 - 109

Note: The type of control I'm using on all my scores is Macintosh Keyboard.

[piyo]

I am getting updates to this thread! Yes!
---
piyo

[Anarchos]

I should probably check in on this thread more often.

Yeah, the "invisible" bullets are very unreliable, and I only exploit them when there are no small enemies around, just shiftace. One thing that really bugs me, especially with hard/normal where the bullets are slower, is that I sometimes fly backwards into bullets I assumed had disappeared.

What do you mean by formations, shiftace? I'm just flying around like crazy after the midbosses so that I can destroy the incoming ships faster, do you mean that we can predict where they're going to come up?

Pattern recognition is probably just experience, not that much to talk about (or maybe there is, but I don't feel like creating a language for all the patterns and so, especially since we can't train on them like the way we could in a non-random shmup.

Get that video done shiftace, I can't wait! And mail me when you're done with it in case I forget. ^^

[shiftace]

I should probably check in on this thread more often.

Yeah, the "invisible" bullets are very unreliable, and I only exploit them when there are no small enemies around, just shiftace. One thing that really bugs me, especially with hard/normal where the bullets are slower, is that I sometimes fly backwards into bullets I assumed had disappeared.

Well, now that I tried paying attention to it, I have seen the "invisible" window save me a few deaths. Usually, if I have the possibility to point-blank a whole wave of medium/large enemies, I just take the chance, and if I don't die on the first one, keep using the same approach. So, if this invisibility saves me on the first one, then it can save me on the remainder of the set. But that's not something that I really search for, and I wouldn't trust my last life to it... I think.

What do you mean by formations, shiftace? I'm just flying around like crazy after the midbosses so that I can destroy the incoming ships faster, do you mean that we can predict where they're going to come up?

Yes. You can't predict them immediately, but after seeing one or two you can somewhat predict the rest, until the stage counter increases again. I can't always pay enough attention to do this.

Get that video done shiftace, I can't wait! And mail me when you're done with it in case I forget. ^^

Yeah... video has been more trouble than I expected. Virtualdub -requires- a capture card, so I can't use that. VLC will work, I'm certain, I just don't know the proper command lines yet. I can do 30 FPS screen capture+transcoding all at once, but both the game and the video output suffer. I can dump raw video to disk at about 1.5GB/min, and the game seems to be OK, but I don't know how to make VLC re-read the raw video to compress it. No ideas at all about audio, will probably just skip it.

[Anarchos]

But point blanking shit loads cannot be done with lock, can it?

That's one thing I really like about this game, it feels so intuitive. I imagined that I could predict the larger enemies, but always thought that it was just basically... I dunno, really, maybe that the chance of two ships coming up on the same side is less, even if it isn't when just seeing it as two options (left-right, divided by two).

I'll trust you'll figure it out with the help of someone. Me, I ordered a converter for my stick, since I find it troublesome not being able to move up-down fast enough (only use one finger for both buttons). You never saw that as a problem?

[shiftace]

Ok, I've had about enough of video handling software, so this will have to do.

Roll/Extreme, 21M, stage 85.

Recorded it with VLC as MPEG-1 since that's the only thing I got to work. Nothing besides VLC seems to load it properly, though. Please excuse the lack of sound, 40% scaling, and flickering (either the screen capture's falling behind, or there's some funny business with frame buffering... I dunno). Also, I cut a few frames off the ends with a hex editor, so maybe something will bitch about missing iframes.

Not a lot to it, is there? Well it looks simple to me, at least. Amazing what 40+ extends and a super-fast ship will let you do.

But point blanking shit loads cannot be done with lock, can it?

It can be done, just not as much. If you aren't doing so already, try using a really light touch on the lock shot. You only need 5-6 hits to kill a medium enemy, more like 3-5 if the main gun helps out. Less lock shots means more speed, more speed means more point blanking. But it's still harder to do here than in roll.

And no, one finger for up/down hasn't been a problem for me...

[Anarchos]

Cool beans, I enjoyed watching the replay. It's three in the morning here in Sweden, but I'll comment anyway. Everyone should have VLC anyway, so it works with that. The lack of sound doesn't bother me, although I had a week when I played parsec47 only with relaxing music ala Tori Amos, Mike Oldfield and the like. Somehow, it didn't work for me. I think it made me play it more safe, or perhaps I just had a bad week. People should try it though, might work for someone.

Well, I have to admit that it doesn't look like there's SO much to it, except that you dodge better than me and do more sweeping motions in fast-mode with a really steady hand, some dodges I can hardly believe my eyes. You seem to play just a bit more aggressive than me, and yet that's enough for you to get more than 1,5x points than me/level. It has to do with that 128 limit, although I have to admit that I never get enough time to discover it with my own eyes. But then again you didn't either.

Two things: When I die on bosses, I drive straight into them kamikaze-style, and hopefully destroy two parts before going back again. This you don't do, although you use the roll shots with different intervals than me. Basically, you shoot very fast, and I wait until the shot is loaded fully, and your tactic does seem to work better, although I'm not sure I can handle the changing paces that comes with that tactic.

Another thing: what happened with the point-blank tactics? Not only do you chicken out from that, but you're at the bottom of the screen when x,5 begins! I've been trying to play very aggressive lately, so I'm always at the top after the midbosses, even if it means death quite often. Basically, I assumed that's how you played. ^^ And before that, I always stayed in the middle so that my shots would reach the enemies faster, isn't this something for you to consider? But I do have problems with point blanking, even when it's only medium and large ships ahead of me, they get me sooner or later, independently of where I place the ship--next to them, inside them, and so forth. But I guess it can be done somehow, and sometimes, no very often, there are enemies that don't seem to shoot at all when coming in. Maybe these were the enemies you were talking about earlier? But in order to get those, you need to be up there every time, right?

Hm, I don't understand your explanation of how speed correlates to point blanking in lock mode...

[shiftace]

About roll shots, it turns out that they do 2 damage/frame for each frame that they touch something, or just 1 damage/frame while charging (presumably 60 fps, with game state and graphics in sync.). I don't know what's the fastest way to do damage, partly because I have no idea what the roll shot's hitbox is. I would expect that 4 single, full-size roll shots are just as effective as a full set of 4 shots, but single ones are easier to line up. I don't know if small shots are actually better or not. Mostly, I go by feel now.

Anyway, the damage-per-frame behavior explains why the thinnest medium enemies & bosses are harder to kill on average; they're just less vulnerable to roll shots. Enemy velocity must have an effect as well, but it would be tiny.

Another thing: what happened with the point-blank tactics?

A few things... The run may not represent typical game patterns, and point-blanking requires some fairly specific ones be useful; I had never been able to watch myself play until just now, so what I do in the game is different from what I used to think I do; and I understand the game better now than I did when I first started talking about point-blanking, and the 128-item limit is more fundamental.

Stage 62 in that replay was probably the nearest thing to the sort of point-blanking I've been talking about, but I botched it a little. And no, you do not want to sit near the top of the screen unless you believe that it's fairly safe to do so. Which goes back to pattern reading.

Maybe I should explain scoring as two points: (1) destroy things quickly and they will produce more point items; and (2) don't create more point items until you have made room for them by collecting most of the existing point items. Both of these goals are served by point-blanking, but they are more generally served just by sequencing kills and item collection, and to collect items the fastest you will have to visit the top of the screen (and then come back down, usually, because it's safer). This is what I wanted to convey about lock mode; the less time you spend using secondary fire, the easier it is to visit the top of the screen.

I hope it makes more sense now.