Microtransactions in Shmups

echan00 · Post by **echan00** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:28 am

What do you guys think about microtransactions in Shmups? An online PvP Shmup that lets you customize your ship and equip it with a variety of weapons sounds pretty neat to me.

Would you guys pay for such game? Paying online to compete in tournaments and creating your own ship?

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:34 am

I doubt anyone would pay for that.

echan00 · Post by **echan00** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:01 am

Why not? Tell me why

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:30 am

sure man $2.50 to fit my ship with ~-'*BLINGIN*`-~ fantastic grilles

and $10.00 a month to get a triple shot and homing missiles which gives me an unfair advantage over out-of-the-box players

do you not see anything wrong with this

if you don't you grossly underestimate the value of money

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:10 am

echan00 wrote:An online PvP Shmup that lets you customize your ship and equip it with a variety of weapons sounds pretty neat to me.

Yes, if it's for free and out of the box. I would never pay for that and neither should anyone else who is sane. People who pay real money for weapon uprgades in videogames should not be allowed to procreate and vote because they are obviously unfit to partake in the progress of mankind.

echan00 · Post by **echan00** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:33 am

Hmmm. So what if you can play to win these items as well?> It's like gaining experience so you can unlock more upgrades. Or better yet, you will gain more experience by beating more people.

zinger · Post by **zinger** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:19 am

What's next, highscores for sale?

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:02 pm

Continue? INSERT CREDIT. 10...9...8...

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:14 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:Continue? INSERT CREDIT. 10...9...8...

You know, you really shouldn't cram coins into your Saturn.

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:15 pm

Who came up with the term microtransaction anyway ?
Probably someone with a micromind or something.

Anyway, most of the new ways found to earn money are a total ripoff one way or the other.
We'll be charged per breath sometime in the future...

BiQ · Post by **BiQ** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:25 pm

Actually, depending what you actually suggest I can imagine something entertaining myself. However, this totally depends on few things:

echan00 wrote:An online PvP Shmup

How would you describe the gameplay, exactly? Two (or more) people playing same vertically/horizontally scrolling levels and competing for score?

Or something like two or more people shooting each other in free-scroll 2D levels in AUTS/Wings/Turbis/Turboraketti style? It would probably (IMHO) be neat to be able to take matches with some kind of bet system. If this was what you meant, we should have this thread moved into Off-topic section, since these games (AFAIK) are not "Shmups".
I beg of all of you, please please do not start the what's-a-shmup war all over again...

Or something else?

that lets you customize your ship and equip it with a variety of weapons sounds pretty neat to me.

Well-executed ship customization is always fun. BUT, and this is a serious question...

Would you guys pay for such game? Paying online to compete in tournaments and creating your own ship?

... a system which lets (and actually condones/courages) you to pay real money to get the upper-hand situation to other players is a BAD IDEA. I am not sure if this was your original intention, but other people seem to have interpreted your post like it was. If it was, then please forget it. The only deciding factor in your success should be in your skill (be it the playing itself or choosing the right set of features into your ship). Experience-based systems are problematic since it must be made balanced enough so as to make it still possible for new players get into when there are hordes of LVL60 players already in.

EDIT: To iterate further, what I think this essentially means is that the possibilities for customizing your ship should be the same for every player, experienced players and out-of-box newbies alike. .<hand-waving>I am currently thinking some kind of system where a set amount of points could be divided between speed, maneuverability, durability and firepower. Experienced players could MAYBE have the option to divide these points more freely than others. For example, the minimum amounts for all of these: speed, maneuverability, durability and firepower would be 5 and maximum 10. Every player gets a total of 30 points to divide between these. 20 of these points are eaten up by minimum amounts. Experienced players might get the freedom to drop some values below 5 and also rise some others over 10. Or something like that... </hand-waving>

However, if someone created a nice (comfortable, good-looking, working, fair) Turboraketti II clone with online gameplay and real money bets for people participating in the fights, yeah, I could even see myself trying that.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:38 pm

It's no different than people paying money for rare & sought-after weapons in games like Diablo II. Granted, the audience is much smaller, but if managed properly, it could work.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:43 pm

FRO wrote:It's no different than people paying money for rare & sought-after weapons in games like Diablo II

People who pay real money for weapon uprgades in videogames should not be allowed to procreate and vote because they are obviously unfit to partake in the progress of mankind.

FRO wrote:Granted, the audience is much smaller, but if managed properly, it could work.

Only if some idiots participate.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:00 pm

The preservation of the simplicity of this genre is our prime concern for the most part. These games are supposed to be easy to pick up and play they are the last true form of pure gaming and I don't think many here want to be nickle and dimed to death. The whole point is to have an equal challenge for all players. Adding upgrades would just make the games easier for newcomers destroying the strong underlying theme of perseverance associated with this genre as a whole. These games present an equal playing field for all players that is the strongest reason that we play them to trounce the competition.

Basically these people arn't 34 year olds living in the attic building expearance points. We play for maybe half an hour to an hour per secession. Shmups just get picked up and played to feed the urge to blow something up skillfully.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:04 pm

Maybe if it was for new, balanced ships that played differently or rearranged levels or arrange modes...

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:10 pm

No. That should be free and unlockable conent that is "earned" by playing the game.

shoe-sama · Post by **shoe-sama** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:16 pm

echan00 wrote:PvP Shmup

AHHHHHH MY EYES!!!

Necronom · Post by **Necronom** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:56 pm

Hehe, no offence echan00 but what kind of aswers do you actually expect asking such a question on THIS forum? The most active posters here collect PCBs and play for score. Hardly the crowd willing to buy an extraset of smartbombs for a dollar...
Seriously, microtransactions can work with a really big game. Being basically nothing else than commercialized mods extending the life cycle of the product. Compared to games like UT or WOW shmups are rather small titles so I guess it would make more sense to do a new game using the same engine instead selling nonsense like new ships or powerups...
Paying for a shmup on XBLA is basically a microtransaction compared to your usual PS2-JP cavegame import

@shoe-sama:
Senko no Ronde...ever heard of it?

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:10 pm

Necronom wrote: Senko no Ronde...ever heard of it?

Have you seen the box art?
AHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!!

WTF
I can't put that uglyness in my 360!!!

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:11 pm

Sonic R wrote:
Necronom wrote: Senko no Ronde...ever heard of it?
Have you seen the box art?
AHHHHH MY EYES!!!!!!!

WTF
I can't put that uglyness in my 360!!!

I know the unit is huge... but how the hell are you going to fit the box in the 360?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:13 pm

shoe-sama wrote:
echan00 wrote:PvP Shmup
AHHHHHH MY EYES!!!

Besides Senko No Ronde (which I don't consider a shmup), Change Air Blade is an AWSOME PvP shmup (http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?let ... e_id=11351) I'd love to see another like this.

FYI, micropayments are typically 1 cent or less (hence the "micro" part of it). However, I do not think you can apply RPG or MMPORG micropayment concepts to shmups. A very bad idea, as already described by Pixel_Outlaw.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:15 pm

Ceph wrote:No. That should be free and unlockable conent that is "earned" by playing the game.

Who do Cave think they are charging more money for so called "black label" PCBs? That shit should have been in there in the first place!

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:21 pm

They are not charging arcade goers more.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:28 pm

Ceph wrote:They are not charging arcade goers more.

So they gave everyone who bought Ibara PCBs black label for free?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:41 pm

PCBs aren't intended for home use, they are made for and sold to arcade operators, who use them to make money. And please tell me again how this is related to micro transactions, my earth-logic cannot follow your logic.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:47 pm

Ceph wrote:PCBs aren't for private consumers. And please tell me again how this is related to micro transactions, my earth-logic cannot follow your logic.

The point is no one seems to have a problem with Cave releasing remixed versions of PCBs months after originals come out. How is it any different if they released a console game and sold arranged modes via a download service later?

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:52 pm

The biggest difference is probably that with one you get actual hardware to hold in your hands while the other only takes money out of your hand.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:53 pm

And the other slight difference is that an arcade operator uses a PCB to earn money.

And the players who come to the arcade to play the game will pay the same price of admission they did for the non black label version.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:55 pm

Acid King wrote:
Ceph wrote:PCBs aren't for private consumers. And please tell me again how this is related to micro transactions, my earth-logic cannot follow your logic.
The point is no one seems to have a problem with Cave releasing remixed versions of PCBs months after originals come out. How is it any different if they released a console game and sold arranged modes via a download service later?

Arcade hardware/software isn't intended for personal/home use. Not to mention, most of their prior ports have featured arrange/remix modes right on the disc. The reason being that there is a push to add bonus material for homeports to make them desirable.. otherwise, why buy the homeport when you can continue playing the superior arcade version?

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:02 pm

Kiken wrote: Arcade hardware/software isn't intended for personal/home use. Not to mention, most of their prior ports have featured arrange/remix modes right on the disc. The reason being that there is a push to add bonus material for homeports to make them desirable.. otherwise, why buy the homeport when you can continue playing the superior arcade version?

What it's intended for isn't the point. People on here still pay thousands for stuff to play in their home. Disregarding that fact, the situations are analogous. For example, a game Ceph's been pushing for on the top 25, Nexzr, has 2 releases. They released a second version with extra modes on it. Would it have been uncalled for for them to sell the modes individually for a few dollars each instead of selling the game over for full price again? Or is it ok simply because they released them all on one disc? Games get rereleased all the time with additional content, and I don't think it would be uncalled for for a developer like Cave to sell additional modes/content for console releases. Seriously, how many people here would shell out extra money for the scoring mode they used for Mushi at the festival in December? Or for Black Label for owners of DOJ for the PS2?

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