Do you like autofire in your shmups?

[nZero]

Still, any kind of autofire in an arcade game seems kind of wrong to me. Home versions are OK to me, because they aren't as "real".

Not only that, but it's a much larger strain to do rapid tapping on a pad than it is on an arcade stick (with quality buttons). Many if not most of the people buying the console versions are going to be using the system's default gamepad with it, so it makes sense to include.

[zimeon]

Perhaps we're digressing a bit, but still...

Err, is this actually a hack or is it just modifying the game with the provided (but not set on by default) autofire feature?

That's just the point. It's not the default.

Why should this hack be considered legitimate when increasing the number of lives in any game is considered criminal?

Ans secondly, it's such a cheezy thing if the only thing that happens is like "boom you get more points". I agree that if everybody agress, then it's OK, but it's like having a switch for "double your score". What's the bloody point?

[Ganelon]

Wait, then why are people using a hack when there's already an autofire function that Cave created for the game? Are you sure it's just a random hack somebody made? The Click-Stick link, esp. towards the end, seems to indicate (if I'm understanding it correctly, which I'm still not sure of) that it's a Cave-created autofire function with the added quirk that holding autofire and pressing fire intensifies the firing rate.

[dboeren]

Wait, then why are people using a hack when there's already an autofire function that Cave created for the game? Are you sure it's just a random hack somebody made? The Click-Stick link, esp. towards the end, seems to indicate (if I'm understanding it correctly, which I'm still not sure of) that it's a Cave-created autofire function with the added quirk that holding autofire and pressing fire intensifies the firing rate.

My understanding is that the game provides a built-in autofire at X shots per second. By making a little hardware doohickey and attaching it to the buttons you can get it to autofire at >X shots per second.

The hold-autofire + press is a separate thing, and is legitimate in my mind although it does smell a little like a bug in the software. I'm all for the "default settings" method being the correct way to do score competitions, the only exception I can think of is a separate competition based on a higher-than-default difficulty level.

But if you modify the hardware of the game, how is that any different from hacking the ROMs to give out more points per enemy?

[LUNardei]

Sometimes...
But I'm not really in love with it, mashing the botton usually concentrate me!

[gs68]

Yes, unless autofire is slow or I can fire faster by tapping rapidly with my index and middle fighters.

[99pence]

I don't play shoot em ups where I have to tap.

[Icarus]

But if you modify the hardware of the game, how is that any different from hacking the ROMs to give out more points per enemy?

As long as all the arcade operators and players adhere to the autofire hack rules in Mushihimesama regarding the speeds used for the hacks, then I can see no problem in them using it to boost scores. It's completely different to hacking the game itself to boost scores, since you're changing the core of the game, and not the control setup.

IIRC, Battle Garegga also has an autofire hack which is mapped to the Option formation change button. Some of the high level replays I've seen use this hack to give you superspeedy formation switching, which when used, makes the Options fire in a virtual Wide formation without the need to change to the actual Wide form through dropping powerups, saving the rank increase. The Saturn version superplays use this in some spots (if you have it, watch Bornnam's battle against Black Heart Mk2 for an example).

Raizing even lets you map autofire to the main fire button as well, through the Maniac control configuration, which allows you to increase the firing rate a-la rapid tapping then holding the fire button, only without the rapid tapping.

Tool assisted shmupping is pretty widely accepted in Japan, and a lot of records are gained through these control tricks. Autofire trickery for scoring can even be gained without actually modifying the controls, an example of this is Guwange's autofire "blipping" to create a stream of coins from high resilience enemies and scenery, a trick accepted by the Japanese shmupping community for gaining maximised scores. In essence, this autofire hack of Mushihimesama is similar to the Guwange autofire trick, just with a bit of hardware assistance.

Another example of useful autofire is in Dodonpachi Daioujou. By tapping the autofire once, you fire only a single volley of bullets, which while weak in power, is still strong enough to knock just the turret off a tank. This gives you the advantage of being able to stall your chain timing meter for a lot longer without destroying everything through a volley of fire, meaning you can keep a chain going for a lot longer through it's controlled usage. (I actually use this trick a lot for my Hyperless practice.)

Who knows, if Mushihime gets ported, they might even alow you to use these autofire hacks through special control configs just like the Saturn port of Garegga.

[Andi]

Vaguely off-topic: I think all games should offer me as much control over how I play them as they possibly can. If I want to turn on or off autofire, I should be able to. If I want to continue, I should be able to. If I want to disable time limits, get more extends, have a longer lifebar, I should be able to.

If that was the case. We could all just create the gaming experience we deem challenging. Once you beat that, you could make it more challenging.

Then again. I was raised on PC games which typically have options galore when compared to console games (especially arcade ports). So, whatever.

[Stormwatch]

Let me put it this way... if a game is good enough, maybe its developer can be forgiven for not putting autofire in it.

[King Slime]

Autofire is a good, unless you desire carpel tunnel.

[zimeon]

It's completely different to hacking the game itself to boost scores, since you're changing the core of the game, and not the control setup.

Maybe. What bothers me a bit is 1) that that implies you can't just go and play the game, you have to hack the buttons to even stand a chance and 2) it's not like this makes the game more texing or anything, it just shoves more points all over the place. Just because the button mechanically has a certain Hz autofire and not a certain other.

For another example:
There is a silly trick in Imperishable Night with using the Marisa/Alice combo. Pushing the slow-button will make Marisa turn to Alice, immediately firing Alice's laser, Marisas missiles stopping. However, the Alice laser takes 25 frames to wink out, and the character switch is immediate. So, by pushing the slow-button every 25 frames will give you the Alice-laser and Marisa's missiles together, creating what fans have named the Malice-cannon. The Malice-cannon does more damage, killing bosses quicker and giving larger bonuses. Now, using this trick I would never consider as a cheat. Try whacking one button 140 bpm while dodging bullets; that takes skill. However, hacking a specific button to create a slow-button hit every 25 frames, creating a hold-down button Malice-cannon is most certainly cheat. Why? Because you've changed the controls the game gives you by default, creating something that obviously isn't intended as a legit part of the game but should instead be down to each person's skill.

Oh well, I shan't push this further. I just think it's ridiculous, and I'll think twice before I am impressed by a pro world record next time.

[Anarchos]

Blasphemy!

And oh, I'm talking about the whole mushihimesama and not auto-firing.

[Zhon]

I love getting carpal tunnel syndrome from rapidly repeating the same motion over and over again.

And OMGZ Mushi players in Japan use a external timer chip for extra-special autofire and our collective worship of their skills have been SHATTEREDZ!!

[oxtsu]

Icarus summed it up nicely a few posts up: I agree precisely.

[MASTER SATAN]

i always use it.

anyone ever beaten Pulstar for NeoGeo without using autofire?

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

[quote="MASTER SATAN"]i always use it.

anyone ever beaten Pulstar for NeoGeo without using autofire?[/quote

I've come pretty close, but then again, I would never use autofire in Pulstar.
I believe that the charge shot is there for a reason.

[MASTER SATAN]

but you have to hit the fire button ridculously fast to get the bullets to widen up. i end up haveing to tab out of NRX to change back and forth from autofire to regfire depending on enemies, and of course have never beaten it because of this.

[it290]

It depends on the weapon. Some of them require more tapping to get to full power. The energy shield-type weapon, for instance, doesn't require pressing the button very fast at all to get to full power; also, keep in mind that the game was made for the Neo Geo, where fast tapping really isn't a problem.

[TWITCHDOCTOR]

but you have to hit the fire button ridculously fast to get the bullets to widen up. i end up haveing to tab out of NRX to change back and forth from autofire to regfire depending on enemies, and of course have never beaten it because of this.

What type of control are you using? I'm pounding away with Happs Competition buttons. Which will make a world of difference when compared to a control pads buttons.

[MASTER SATAN]

gravis destroyer using neroragex