Do you like autofire in your shmups?

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:28 pm

Autofire, some hate it, some love it. I like autofire because mashing the fire button all the time can be tiresome on my finger. There are those however, who prefer button-tapping as they say it is more precise. I wanted to know what was your preferance and why.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:39 pm

Depends on the game. For most modern games I prefer not to use it because precision is often important, but for older stuff like Thunderforce or Apidya I'll definitely use it.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:11 pm

For games where there is a firing difference between tap & hold, such as Donpachi, ESP RaDe, Ketsui etc... I don't use autofire, and that habit carries over to some modern-ish games such as Garegga.

Older stuff like Truxton, Hellfire, and Thunderforce I will use autofire.

Interestingly, I use auto for Gradius V but not for Galaxies or gaiden...

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:12 pm

I always map the buttons so that my fingers glide effortlessly from the autofire to the non-autofire whenever I need the charge shot/laser/whatnot.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:34 pm

I love autofire. When playing on an arcade stick or actual machine, my wrist starts to hurt if I have to repeatedly smack the button.

SheSaidDutch · Post by **SheSaidDutch** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:40 pm

Only for ThunderForce 2

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:12 pm

For the longest time I've been tapping in Gunbird 2- I like having the charge shot/ regular shot on the same button. But now I'm thinking of switching to sticks (from Saturn pads) and tapping a big clacky button sucks so I'm using autofire. I didn't know it'd kill enemies faster though. Maybe when I get my new stick the higher quality buttons will make tapping better.

I have nothing against autofire though, I think it's silly when people get all up on their high horses about it.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:15 pm

I use it as often as I can. Some games (like Ikaruga) are not necessarily appropriate candidates for autofire, but for most stuff (unless it is a game w/ chaining or some benefit for accuracy) I use it. I find that some older shmups (arcade only releases) would have benefitted greatly from auto-fire. After playing some of them, the button-mashing technique starts to make your hands, wrists, and elbows feel like jelly!

dboeren · Post by **dboeren** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:22 pm

In general, I don't like autofire. To me it takes away part of the feel of shmupping. The incessant sound of button pressing can also serve as a hint to others that you are playing the type of game which is not to be interrupted. I'm not totally against it, I just think manual fire helps the atmosphere.

What sucks the MOST though, is slow autofire. Why anyone would make a game where autofire shoots slower than pressing the fire button repeatedly is beyond me. Also, even though I favor manual fire I do not really like those few games where pressing fire more rapidly creates more powerful shots.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:31 pm

when its appropriate. i use it for the cave games i have. i almost never autofire with Gradius (those gaps kill me all the time).

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:43 pm

I've got no problem with it, though in most fairly modern shmups the fire rate is fast enough that tapping the button puts out just as many shots as holding it does. It also sorta depends on the game: when playing DoDonPachi or the like I just use the one fire button for both the regular shot and the laser, but when playing Giga Wing I often use the separate autofire button and keep the "A" button exclusively for reflect shield use. Not sure exactly what influences me to play in one way or the other, but in any case I don't mind autofire if it's there, and if you don't like it it's usually optional.

jiji · Post by **jiji** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:50 pm

My fingers get enough strain from mousing, keyboarding, and VF4evo. I prefer to use autofire in anything that doesn't have alternate fire via button-holding. This especially goes for older games (like Truxton, ouch!). I really like modern shooters that allow continuous fire with relaxed button-tapping, like one tap every half-second or so.

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:53 pm

There's no skill in repeatedly tapping a button.

The only time tapping the fire button is useful is when you need to place particular shots, as in Space Invaders & Galaxian. Newer games, however, are not about placing individual shots, but instead creating a continuous stream of bullets. You might as well just have autofire so you don't wear out your thumb by mindlessly pressing it over & over.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:02 pm

Always (when there's not an alt. tap attack) since it causes less wear on my controller.

Ord · Post by **Ord** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:16 pm

I prefer auto fire to tell you the truth and it's always the first thing i set up whenever i play a Cave game.

japtor · Post by **japtor** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:52 pm

in ketsui at least, tapping auto fire creates a shorter shot compared to regular fire. so in that case it creates a different shot a bit, i dont really use auto shot tapping outside of a few instances though.

in the case of gunbird 2 and esprade, id really like auto shot (havent tried esprades a+b auto yet), and thats pretty much only cause the button layout. normally for games where i have to tap i use my index and middle finger together. for 3 button games i have to keep my fingers spread out so it feels sorta straining. damn gunbird 2 for having the close attack on c.

otherwise it sorta depends on the setup, tapping just feels better on clicky buttons for me, ive gotten used to the sanwas on my cab (which beat the hell out of my old shitty ass ghetto buttons), but clickiness still feels better when tapping for me. for any other use i dont really care as long as the buttons are decent.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:57 pm

Definitely prefer autofire. Every game should have it. I don't understand why they don't use it for more. Giga Wing and Mars Matrix being two prime examples. Having the reflect force and shot on the same button adds the lag for the RF and Mars Matrix could easily have mapped auto fire, piercing shot and the gravity hole bomb to 3 separate buttons. I think ESPRade did it best by mapping all three functions to different buttons and having a difference between tapping and holding the fire button.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:42 am

It all depends on what I'm playing on.
If I'm playing Strikers 1945 on the Sega Saturn, well, I use the original (JPN) styled pad with auto fire. If I'm playing DodonPachi in Kawa-X (XBOX), I use my upgraded X-Arcade Dual panel joystick.
I also use a Namco joystick with most all of my PS1&2 shmups.

However, I somtimes find that I play better with a pad for certian games. For example, Ikaruga...I pretty much suck with a stick because you really don't have to move around much, so little/subtle pad tap movements work better for me with a "pad".
Its weird, but I also prefer a pad with R-Type Final.

So yea, I use Rapid Fire when using pads, because its harder to make rapid presses with just a thumb, whereas with a joystick, you can easily pound away with your fingers/wrist/forearm.

My preferance? I prefer to pound away! It just gives that extra feeling of the "manic panic". I guess its like driving a car...you get lazy when you drive an auto shift transmission, as opposed to a manual gearbox, you'll have to stay on you're toes at all times.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:00 am

I use it if I cannot win without it. I noticed in Psikyo games they have cleverly put the special weapon as a depress on the A button. Therefore you cannot depress it without setting off the special weapon. However, it defaults back to autofire once your special weapons are expired.

shiftace · Post by **shiftace** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:18 am

I like autofire when it's there. The poll options make it sound like there's a choice to use it or not, which is something I've never seen in a game. If qutofire is a game feature, I like it, but if it's something you get by using a turbo controller or modifying game options, I don't see how it isn't cheating. Really, I hate button mashing, but if it's the default setting, well, I'd rather just bitch some and live with it.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:31 am

If it's an old game, like on the Genesis, I'll probably turn on autofire. Although a lot of those games had autofire to begin with.

If the game is more recent, and has some score competition going on for it, I won't use the autofire, because I feel like it's cheating if it wasn't in the original arcade version.

Then there are the games where different firing rates have different effects. Like most Psikyo games, I wouldn't use autofire, because it's so much hassle to switch buttons if I need the charge shot. Same deal with the Pachis, sure I could use A for the laser and C for the shot, but it's so much quicker to just use one button.

Now, sometimes in games where you can hold the button and your shot gets marginally weaker, I'll hold the button in the main level then start pounding the button when I get to a boss. Batsugun is a prime example of this.

IlMrm · Post by **IlMrm** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:05 am

Also depends on the game for me, and whether it is arcade or console play.

In the arcade it's always tapping for me. I am surprised to find some auto-fire buttons in Japanese arcades. Even then I still tap.

On console plays I use auto-fire. For games with charge shots and stuff that requires holding down a button to execute, like Gunbird 2 and the Giga Wings, I would set the auto-fire at the R button. The bad part is your finger becomes very dark red from holding the button down long. I need to find something to pad the R button, maybe a little piece of sponge.

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:04 am

The Japanese are using autofire & autofire hacks as much as they can.

In the case of Mushihimesama, the autofire hack A + C trick results in sky rocket Chains and scores that are at least 3 X that of normal button usage. As a result, the Maniac Mode WR has risen to 1Billion using autofire hacks & agressive play. (More on Click Stick).

Rando states that the Japanese are using an overcooked autofire on Border Down to bring 5-6% higher results from Breaks.

Truxton - I never used autofire on it, I enjoyed using the Track N'Field running button technique, but I agree that it would help in certain areas where the laser is not required.

zimeon · Post by **zimeon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:50 am

Depends on game, but also on control. Playing on a PC with a keyboard, thank you autofire. Playing with a joystick or joypad, hello my Armalyte-thumb.

But I guess the game itself makes the difference. In some games, autofire takes away part of the fun. In some other games it doesn't.

DEL: A+C-trick in Mushihimesama? Could you please specify for a person who does not frequent Click Stick? Or is there an easy link?

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:34 pm

http://click-stick.com/bbs/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=90

zimeon · Post by **zimeon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:29 pm

God, that has to be the most insane try to legitimize a blatant cheat I have ever seen in my entire life.

What a completely mad discussion. It makes me want to forever forget so-called "pro"-world records of shmups scores.

For those who can't bother to read the Click Stick posts, the sum of it all was that using hacked buttons with a built-in specific Hz autofire obviously gave more points than the software built-in autofire, due to specific game scoring systems that could be ill-used this way. Just the mere thought almost made me shout "get a LIFE, guys!" but that real pros considered this a legitimate method... Christ! What on earth are scores for? To see how many hardware hacks you've bought?

I mean, the Malice-cannon in Imperishable Night was one thing, but this...

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:33 pm

Meh, if all the hardcore players and Arcadia accepts it, then everyone is on the same page and has an even chance for competition. Scores are still valid to see who can succeed best by the new agreed upon rules.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:21 pm

Reminds me of the past debates over whether using glitches, infinites, etc. in fighting games like Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was "legit" (for the record, personally I dislike it, though my opinion means zero)...in spite of the aforementioned I have 2 specific problems with the autofire thing here though. First off, unlike in MvC2 or the like, in which the glitches and such were left there in the first place by the (lazy) programmers, the auto-firers here actually have to mess with the hardware to get the "trick" to work. Second, while yes, if everyone agrees on it then everyone is "equal," but as far as I'm concerned that still doesn't make it "fair," since you're still not "playing the game on its own terms" (something which "hardcore" shmuppers just LOVE to complain about whenever a lesser player, outside of tournament settings or anything like that, adjusts a game's difficulty or something truly criminal like that

); it doesn't matter if everyone does it, a hack is still a hack. I see it like a boxing match in which both boxers put metal in their gloves: yes, the match is theoretically "even," but both are still cheating, no matter how you slice it, and if it were found out both would be disqualified. But hey, if the soulless entity known as "the community" accepts it as legit, then what do I know...

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:12 pm

Err, is this actually a hack or is it just modifying the game with the provided (but not set on by default) autofire feature?

dboeren · Post by **dboeren** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:52 pm

This autofire hardware hack thing really bugs me too. It's kind of neat if someone did it as a stunt, but it shouldn't be considered legitimate. The other idea where you use the premade autofire button in conjunction with tapping fire to get a faster firing rate is OK, because it's in the game.

Still, any kind of autofire in an arcade game seems kind of wrong to me. Home versions are OK to me, because they aren't as "real".

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Do you like autofire in your shmups?

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