Bye Bye dualshock.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:42 pm

E. Randy Dupre wrote: No it isn't. Dual analogue control is integral to those games, not the rumble feature.

Err, The aforementioned Bloody Roar 2 doesn't use the analog functions at all, only vibrations.

Very good points Bulletmagnet, this sounds like a cheap money grab from Immersion's part to me.

As stated, Immersion's patent only applies to a dual vibration controller. Single vibration controllers and accessories are exempt.

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:48 pm

UnscathedFlyingObject wrote:Geez. I'll probably have to stock a few Dual Shocks depending on how this thing turns out. I know I'll be playing a ton of games on my ps2.

I wonder if there will be a run on those Dualshock 2s. I actually bought an extra one a month ago just to have an extra, and it's still in its package. Glad I did that. I'm also waiting on a PS2 saturn pad, so I guess I'm good for awhile, controller-wise.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:13 am

Honestly JP, has this forum degenerated to the point where you call a decision like this "Good" just because of an anti-Sony bias?

The decision is good or bad based not any bias, but based on it's justice, which is far from clear.

"As stated, Immersion's patent only applies to a dual vibration controller. Single vibration controllers and accessories are exempt."

So, who's to say that even if Immersion came up with the technology first that Sony copied the idea from them?? That has to be proven in court, and it has yet to be.

"Still, it sounds like someone(Immersion) is really trying to get rich quick here.
I don't feel like reading the whole thing, but this is about a controller featuring two sticks that vibrate? So you mean, everything relating to sex toys to Smash TV can jump in and sue Sony now?
(Smash TV was one of the older "two joystick" games as was Robotron, and sex toys have been "vibrating" for years!)

This is one of those Rolling Eyes type lawsuits I think."

I agree Twitch; lawsuits have just become the new national pastime in this country, and this is just plain absurd. This lawsuit reminds me of the one back in the early '80s over Coleco's port of Donkey Kong. Universal Studios tried to sue Coleco claiming that because of Donkey Kong's appearance, and the fact that he climbed steel girders and held a woman captive that it was an infringment on King Kong! Universal lost, and rightfully so. And I hope Immersion looses their pants on this one, regardless of how much Sony has to pay out.

I guess anyone who makes, or has made, run and jump platformers can now sue Miyamoto.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:30 am

Well, it doesn't matter if Sony made a concious effort to copy Immersion's dual rumble technology or not. When it's someone else's idea, royalties must be paid anyway.

Of course, yes, it must be proven in court that Sony's design did not infringe on Immersion's original patent. However, that has already been proven to one judge. Yes, we'll have to see if higher judges will hold that opinion or not.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:33 am

I just hope they don't start pulling any PS2 games off store shelves.

E. Randy Dupre · Post by **E. Randy Dupre** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:30 am

dave4shmups wrote:Has this forum degenerated to the point where we call a decision like this "Good" just because of an anti-Sony bias?

Go easy with the "we" there, dave. One or two people making dumb comments doesn't equal the entire forum.

Ganelon wrote:Err, The aforementioned Bloody Roar 2 doesn't use the analog functions at all, only vibrations.

"Those games" being the ones mentioned in FRO's post - the one that I quoted. And even so, I'd place some good money that BR2 doesn't use the dual shock rumble in any way which is fundamental to the game, in which case my point - that the games which use rumble feedback only do so in a very minor way, as a nice but pointless little bonus effect - still stands. They could rip the rumble motors out of the controller and chuck them in the bin, and at the most important level the games would all play in exactly the same way.

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:54 am

E. Randy Dupre wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:Has this forum degenerated to the point where we call a decision like this "Good" just because of an anti-Sony bias?
Go easy with the "we" there, dave. One or two people making dumb comments doesn't equal the entire forum.

Ganelon wrote:Err, The aforementioned Bloody Roar 2 doesn't use the analog functions at all, only vibrations.
"Those games" being the ones mentioned in FRO's post - the one that I quoted. And even so, I'd place some good money that BR2 doesn't use the dual shock rumble in any way which is fundamental to the game, in which case my point - that the games which use rumble feedback only do so in a very minor way, as a nice but pointless little bonus effect - still stands. They could rip the rumble motors out of the controller and chuck them in the bin, and at the most important level the games would all play in exactly the same way.

Take some ritalin and settle down, kids. All the guy said was "good." How do you know what he meant by that? Maybe the prospect of protecting intellectual property excites him? Maybe he likes the prospect of justice being done after a large company made money off a smaller company's ideas? Maybe he's just anti-big business? Reading some kind of fanboy bias into such a simple and harmless comment just makes you look stupid.

Oh yeah and Dave how do you think you looked when you started making assumptions like calling this law suit a "money grab" or frivolous, when you hardly know anything about the case?

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:58 am

I guess now Sony knows what the Bleem guys were going through. I'm glad they know what it is like, but don't feel happy since the Dual Shock is one of the best things to happen to gaming since the D-pad.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:37 am

"Oh yeah and Dave how do you think you looked when you started making assumptions like calling this law suit a "money grab" or frivolous, when you hardly know anything about the case?"

When I made that comment, I knew as much as you or anyone else.

Go back and read the posts, I hardly think I'm the only one here who thinks this lawsuit is stupid.

And I'm not trying to make blanket assumptions, but I do know that JP doesn't like Sony gaming hardware. That's fine, but saying that you think a company being sued is "good" just because you don't happen to like that company is ridiculous.

In any case, could certain games be recalled? I'm not worried too much about the Dualshock2, since I have a Sony one, and a Mortal Kombat PS2 controller that also has dual analog.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:50 am

The patent has nothing to do with dual analog controls. It has to do with vibration feedback via 2 motors working in tandem. There is a big difference.

If the game rumbles as a result of some action on screen, and the rumble feedback is produced by 2 motors working in tandem, it infringes on the patent.

In theory, the patent would conflict with single analog controllers.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:37 am

Well then, maybe Sony should just remove the Dual Shock motors and be done with it!? They may still have to pay for the infringement though.
Personally, I really wouldn't miss a vibrating controller...but I would miss Sony dual analog design.

What I really think? I think Sony will just make some sort of settlement with Immersion and keep the Dual Shock as it is.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:47 am

TWITCHDOCTOR wrote:What I really think? I think Sony will just make some sort of settlement with Immersion and keep the Dual Shock as it is.

I certainly hope so.

jp · Post by jp » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:30 pm

The n00b wrote:
E. Randy Dupre wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:Has this forum degenerated to the point where we call a decision like this "Good" just because of an anti-Sony bias?
Go easy with the "we" there, dave. One or two people making dumb comments doesn't equal the entire forum.

Ganelon wrote:Err, The aforementioned Bloody Roar 2 doesn't use the analog functions at all, only vibrations.
"Those games" being the ones mentioned in FRO's post - the one that I quoted. And even so, I'd place some good money that BR2 doesn't use the dual shock rumble in any way which is fundamental to the game, in which case my point - that the games which use rumble feedback only do so in a very minor way, as a nice but pointless little bonus effect - still stands. They could rip the rumble motors out of the controller and chuck them in the bin, and at the most important level the games would all play in exactly the same way.
Take some ritalin and settle down, kids. All the guy said was "good." How do you know what he meant by that? Maybe the prospect of protecting intellectual property excites him? Maybe he likes the prospect of justice being done after a large company made money off a smaller company's ideas? Maybe he's just anti-big business? Reading some kind of fanboy bias into such a simple and harmless comment just makes you look stupid.

I just like watching people cry over internet comments as if I kicked their dog or something. Its funny. And I feel justice has been done, welcome to Bleem's world bitches.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:40 pm

"What I really think? I think Sony will just make some sort of settlement with Immersion and keep the Dual Shock as it is."

This would certainly, IMO, be the smartest thing to do rather then coming up with a new controller for a console that's almost at the end of it's lifespan. So I certainly hope that's what Sony does.

And JP, I wasn't trying to insult you or otherwise get personal. I honestly think you are a great member of this forum, and I get a kick out of your sense of humor. So I apologize for getting so pissed at one simple word you said. I just don't know anything about the Bleemcast case at all, but if justice is being served, then it is indeed good. Like I said before, I just hope no games get recalled for a system I just bought.

At any rate, I honestly hope this thread keeps going, as new news pops up about this case.